US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| THE ANTI BENGHAZI (Read Staff Post)

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Oct 25, 2017
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it's just sooooo interesting to me to see how quickly folks who purport to be socialists fall back into classism, especially in this case when bernie's whole appeal is he's supposed to be normal compared to all the wealthy ivy league elites or whatever (it's also soooo interesting that harvard was chosen as the school for the example, because between warren and bernie i definitely associate harvard with bernie!)
I legit struggled with reading that post because I was infinitely confused by the parallel where Warren isn't the academic
 

pigeon

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Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Trying to cut this word out of my diet, but the media description of voting blocs as "better educated" (having a college degree) is really a bit of a dogwhistle that's supposed to invoke feelings of "oh they're smart and know what they're talking about" but actually practically is something more like "people who know just as little as everyone else but paid $50000 for a cool piece of paper that makes them more Enlightened."

It's a kind of voter that seems at least to me to sometimes be tremendously thin-skinned. Which is why pointing out Warren's base being white and Better Educated causes a lot of them feel like they're having a self-perceived moral high ground flipped around and exposed as pretty meaningless in a political context.

I have a great friend who grew up with very little and community college was his way to get back into higher ed. after life circumstances made him quit. My father never went to college and works very hard for his family, and I had a better childhood than most in my state because of it. The idea that educational elitism has drip dropped down all the way from ivy-leaguers to even just people who simply have a bachelor's degree is pretty nauseating and I hate it.
Actually I think the problem was more likely that it erased people of color Warren supporters in a way that is pretty gross, I seem to recall having quite a few conversations about how “Bernie bro” was offensive for the same reason, but I guess maybe the people saying that, with respect, were acting in bad faith since some of the very same people were in the thread saying actually it’s just statistically true when you say it about Warren
 

Dream Machine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,036
No I fucking haven't. If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, don't say anything!

The ban re: Muslim issues was me making a point about religions with singing cultures (like say, the Gospel tradition) developing those skillsets in a population leading to having more singers around very, very badly and I totally deserved the smack because I completely mangled what I was trying to say in a way that was genuinely offensive.
Yeah, that sounds kind of racist. Say it more carefully next time.
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
17,545
This also very much came up with Jewish people and the socialist movement in Europe, where it turned out "no, anti-semitism still very much persists regardless of the economics involved!" And it is more true than other ideologies, because the "class is the root of all evil" thesis runs directly counter to these groups' lived experiences.
You obviously do not spend extensive time in leftist spaces if you think there is a significantly bigger problem with racism in socialism than other ideologies (especially, you know, fascism). I have no interest in arguing against my lived experience to satisfy you.
 

GiantBreadbug

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Oct 25, 2017
3,887
Actually I think the problem was more likely that it erased people of color Warren supporters in a way that is pretty gross, I seem to recall having quite a few conversations about how “Bernie bro” was offensive for the same reason, but I guess maybe the people saying that, with respect, were acting in bad faith since some of the very same people were in the thread saying actually it’s just statistically true when you say it about Warren
well fingers crossed for her that this most recent stunt leads to a scenario in which it's no longer statistically true about her campaign but it's not looking good tbh :/
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
30,745
You obviously do not spend extensive time in leftist spaces if you think there is a significantly bigger problem with racism in socialism than other ideologies (especially, you know, fascism). I have no interest in arguing against my lived experience to satisfy you.
I didn't say racism. I said there is a significantly bigger problem with people claiming class is at the root of all issues, and that POV being offputting to minorities. Because generally, that's not a view outside the left!
 

Sandstar

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Oct 28, 2017
4,830
I transferred from university to a community college after my first semester, now I pay $4k/year instead of $20k/year 😎
Yeah, exactly. I wish more people gave community college a chance, since it's so much cheaper, and just as good. Especially if you can transfer to an in state university effortlessly once you graduate.
 

Deffers

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Mar 4, 2018
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User Banned (2 Weeks): Ignoring Staff Post
No I fucking haven't. If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, don't say anything!
You're right. If he didn't know you were banned for justifying war crimes too, Adrian's really underselling the heinous shit you've gotten back into this forum after saying. Frankly irresponsible.

Your mangled, still-racist double-down (after a mod post no less) would be way less... terrible if you had some other posting history.
 

Apharmd

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Oct 25, 2017
5,457
It absolutely is not ahistorical! There's another portion of the book I couldn't find online, I'll have to use my phone to grab it later, but the book dives into these intra-left white/black conflicts repeatedly. This passage is talking about 1889-1890



This also very much came up with Jewish people and the socialist movement in Europe, where it turned out "no, anti-semitism still very much persists regardless of the economics involved!" And it is more true than other ideologies, because the "class is the root of all evil" thesis runs directly counter to these groups' lived experiences.

No I fucking haven't. If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, don't say anything!

The ban re: Muslim issues was me making a point about religions with singing cultures (like say, the Gospel tradition) developing those skillsets in a population leading to having more singers around very, very badly and I totally deserved the smack because I completely mangled what I was trying to say in a way that was genuinely offensive.
... Arabic cultures don't have singing traditions? Are you out of your fucking gourd kirblar? The sung calls to prayer in Arabic are fucking AMAZING. I'm an atheist and I adore them.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,745
... Arabic cultures don't have singing traditions? Are you out of your fucking gourd kirblar? The sung calls to prayer in Arabic are fucking AMAZING. I'm an atheist and I adore them.
I'I was not and am not saying they don't! I only brought it up to acknowledge the context of the screwup previously, not to relitigate it, because I was being accused of saying something I didn't'!
 

PantherLotus

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Oct 27, 2017
3,667
I think Community Colleges are cool and an important part of whatever our answer to exploding education costs becomes. But it's also ok to admit they offer largely lower overall quality -- admission standards, curriculum, teaching -- than even slightly more prestigious state schools. This is not a classist argument and is just kindofa dumb thing to debate.
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
17,545
I went to community college!

...after flunking out of a four year.

But I still transferred to another four year and got my bachelor's in five years overall thanks to summer and winter classes.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,938
I think Community Colleges are cool and an important part of whatever our answer to exploding education costs becomes. But it's also ok to admit they offer largely lower overall quality -- admission standards, curriculum, teaching -- than even slightly more prestigious state schools. This is not a classist argument and is just kindofa dumb thing to debate. Guessing YMMV from community college to community college, though.
Nah, got my degree at a bigger name school, got a secondary degree at a community college, the classes weren't really worse. In fact one of my professors was from the bigger name school and worked at both.
Make it all years free and we have a deal
we'd have to change the naming scheme then
 
Oct 27, 2017
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User Banned (5 Days): Drive-By Posting, Inappropriate Joke
[Mod Edit: Inappropriate Youtube Video]
 
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PantherLotus

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Oct 27, 2017
3,667
Nah, got my degree at a bigger name school, got a secondary degree at a community college, the classes weren't really worse. In fact one of my professors was from the bigger name school and worked at both.

we'd have to change the naming scheme then
a better school would have taught you that anecdotes are not data
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,808
Neither Bernie nor Warren have impressive electoral records at all, save for Bernie's initial mayoral election.
correct

the whole discussion was embarrassingly stupid and constant reaching for nonsense points that didn’t even matter

Steve Bullock was at home punching air listening to it probably

But really Warren also ticket split worse than Hillary in her own state in a wave year where Ds won by 8 million votes instead of 2. That’s super concerning
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,938
Honestly, it probably wouldn’t have
True. I pretty much use anecdotes never in political stuff, but I also wasn't taught not to or anything. But the idea that community colleges are mostly worse than even the worst non-community college schools is not something I agree with.
Before touching tuition, go after room and board.
There are so many layers to room and board though and it intersects with larger housing problems.
 

pigeon

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Oct 25, 2017
5,447
we should just get rid of four year colleges and then nobody will complain that community colleges are lower quality
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,938
It's a bigger problem re: accessibility w the 4 year schools. Dorms are a thing.
I'm well aware of that. College towns also have the additional problem of having ridiculous apartment rent and otherwise prices because they can get away with it (which dips back into the dorms being expensive). On top of that you have college town NIMBYism to preserve certain looks and themes that are very similar in city housing problems. I remember paying 2k a month for the privilege of sharing a small apartment with three other people in college.
 
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Tamanon

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Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Other countries have no tuition and a living stipend. It’s going to be almost impossible to approach that here. We’re still stuck on thinking tuition is the actual problem.
 

adam387

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
5,157
I have a question....

So, the whole "Warren framed that 30 years just to antagonize Bernie!"

So? Is he a child? Is he incapable of not taking the bait? Because, I hate to break it to you, this isn't a good argument in his defense. (It is, of course, blaming the woman for having the audacity to say something that might hurt a man's fee-fees). But, outside that, if Bernie is so thin skinned that he gets irate at a totally benign, factually true statement...I don't want him within 10 miles of running against Donald Trump.

A man you can bait with a fact is not a man you can trust with the Presidency.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,938
Other countries have no tuition and a living stipend. It’s going to be almost impossible to approach that here. We’re still stuck on thinking tuition is the actual problem.
Tuition is the easiest problem to solve or at least make progress on. Obviously, the room and board is a bigger cost, but it would make the blow a lot less to take that step.
 

BoosterDuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,371
I have a question....

So, the whole "Warren framed that 30 years just to antagonize Bernie!"

So? Is he a child? Is he incapable of not taking the bait? Because, I hate to break it to you, this isn't a good argument in his defense. (It is, of course, blaming the woman for having the audacity to say something that might hurt a man's fee-fees). But, outside that, if Bernie is so thin skinned that he gets irate at a totally benign, factually true statement...I don't want him within 10 miles of running against Donald Trump.

A man you can bait with a fact is not a man you can trust with the Presidency.
Warren's statement wasn't true since Bernie beat a Republican incumbent in November of 1990
 

Dream Machine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,036
I have a question....

So, the whole "Warren framed that 30 years just to antagonize Bernie!"

So? Is he a child? Is he incapable of not taking the bait? Because, I hate to break it to you, this isn't a good argument in his defense. (It is, of course, blaming the woman for having the audacity to say something that might hurt a man's fee-fees). But, outside that, if Bernie is so thin skinned that he gets irate at a totally benign, factually true statement...I don't want him within 10 miles of running against Donald Trump.

A man you can bait with a fact is not a man you can trust with the Presidency.
The same could be said about warren's thin skinned response to bernie "trashing" her (some volunteer posting a totally benign, factually true statement to a slack channel) being to launch this petty, opportunistic line of attack against against her good friend.

Biden it is. I hope he does pushups with trump.
 

Owzers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,532
The same could be said about warren's thin skinned response to bernie "trashing" her (some volunteer posting a totally benign, factually true statement to a slack channel) being to launch this petty, opportunistic line of attack against against her good friend.

Biden it is. I hope he does pushups with trump.
I want to see Trump do a push-up.
 

adam387

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
5,157
Warren's statement wasn't true since Bernie beat a Republican incumbent in November of 1990
Do you realize how absurd and petty this sounds? Honestly?
The same could be said about warren's thin skinned response to bernie "trashing" her (some volunteer posting a totally benign, factually true statement to a slack channel) being to launch this petty, opportunistic line of attack against against her good friend.

Biden it is. I hope he does pushups with trump.
No, don't do that. Don't defend Bernie by deflecting. Actually defend what he did instead of trying to bothsides it.

And this is not RuPauls best friend race! They're running against each other. The idea that neither should say shit about the other is so absolutely ridiculous.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
The same could be said about warren's thin skinned response to bernie "trashing" her (some volunteer posting a totally benign, factually true statement to a slack channel) being to launch this petty, opportunistic line of attack against against her good friend.

Biden it is. I hope he does pushups with trump.
I’m pretty baffled at how it became canonical truth that warren personally signed off on this leak
 
Oct 25, 2017
860
Is it possible to get an official staff explanation as to why this poster was banned then immediately unbanned?

or why this post was actionable:

but not this one?

both were posted after this staff post:

I get tensions are high now but this seems inconsistent and arbitrary to me.

I don't mean to accuse staff of favoritism or anything but it can be hard not to wonder at the reasoning for these kinds of things at times esp given a large amount of staff come from this community.

Any clarity is very much appreciated.
 
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