US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| THE ANTI BENGHAZI (Read Staff Post)

cameron · Jan 20, 2020

Rudy Giuliani on Fox News: "Lev is someone I'm—I was close to. Obviously I was misled by him. I feel very bad, I was godfather to his child ... I still feel sorry for him. I'm not going to respond to him for each and every one of the misrepresentations he has made."

10:45 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Rebecca Ballhaus @rebeccaballhaus

More Rudy: "If I'm called as a witness I'm prepared to do it. In fact, I wouldn't mind being called as a witness for a lot of reasons." https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1219466012816551942 …

10:45 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Manu Raju @mkraju

Giuliani says on Fox that he was "obviously misled" by Lev Parnas, noting that he's godfather to Parnas' child. Parnas "in very large part" didn't tell the truth in his media interviews, Rudy says

On whether he tried to surveil then-US ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, Giuliani said: "No, I did not ... In fact, she directed the surveillance of me!"

10:41 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Double 0 · Jan 20, 2020

patientzero said:
This is worse than incompetence.

It's goddamned laziness.

I will never say I am the hardest working person, but when I do commit to a job, a presentation, a relation, or whatever other aspect of our lives requires work, I fucking commit to the work. I'm details-oriented; I want to know exactly where that address is (give me a zip code); I want to know how long this presentation is supposed to be and I want to get it down to a science; you want a word count? I'll write it to within 5 words, always over.

That's what I want in someone in a leadership, thus Presidential, role. I think Warren is that person; I though Hillary would be that person. Bernie isn't that person. He's a lazy ass.

I'll add that Obama was that person. And that made the contrast between him and Biden bigger.

aspiegamer · Jan 20, 2020

The next week is going to be some GOAT-tier political fuckery that'll be talked about until the end of western civilization, so buckle up.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Jan 20, 2020

The Bernie-Sirota disconnect right now is massive. Bernie seems to have little idea what his camp is doing and doesn't seem to approve it. This is bizarre.

patientzero · Jan 20, 2020

lmcfigs said:
well I think the question some have been posing in this thread is whether or not Bernie has been the only candidate making apologies, or whether he's unique in having to make apologies. And the answer is clearly no. The fact that people don't remember other candidates faux pas, says more about how much Bernie occupies their mind. And then acting like im the one bringing it up when im simply answering questions posted in this thread...

Welcome to primaries, and elections in general!

I had to sit through Gore being accused of sighing too much debating Bush and having an awkward kiss with his wife. I sat through Swiftboating Kerry, Obama being criticized for Reverend Wright and Saul Alinsky and more. Look at the multitude of bullshit thrown to Clinton when she was sick, when she wore a dress that was deemed too expensive, when people criticized her for not baking cookies, when it was a question of whether she'd take her husband's name. I knew about Dukakis and the helmet along with Willie Horton before I was voting age.

Candidates weather bullshit. Good ones choose good surrogates. And many don't. They surround themselves with staff who worsen their problems.

skullmuffins · Jan 20, 2020

cameron said:

I must have missed the part of the right wing conspiracy theory that explains why and how the US ambassador to Ukraine would be surveilling Rudy Giuliani and Don Jr

lmcfigs · Jan 20, 2020

patientzero said:
Welcome to primaries, and elections in general!

I had to sit through Gore being accused of sighing too much debating Bush and having an awkward kiss with his wife. I sat through Swiftboating Kerry, Obama being criticized for Reverend Wright and Saul Alinsky and more. Look at the multitude of bullshit thrown to Clinton when she was sick, when she wore a dress that was deemed too expensive, when people criticized her for not baking cookies, when it was a question of whether she'd take her husband's name. I knew about Dukakis and the helmet along with Willie Horton before I was voting age.

Candidates weather bullshit. Good ones choose good surrogates. And many don't. They surround themselves with staff who worsen their problems.

i have no allies in this thread apparently :(

Wilsongt · Jan 20, 2020

cameron said:
Rebecca Ballhaus @rebeccaballhaus

Rudy Giuliani on Fox News: "Lev is someone I'm—I was close to. Obviously I was misled by him. I feel very bad, I was godfather to his child ... I still feel sorry for him. I'm not going to respond to him for each and every one of the misrepresentations he has made."

10:45 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Rebecca Ballhaus @rebeccaballhaus

More Rudy: "If I'm called as a witness I'm prepared to do it. In fact, I wouldn't mind being called as a witness for a lot of reasons." https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1219466012816551942 …

10:45 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Manu Raju @mkraju

Giuliani says on Fox that he was "obviously misled" by Lev Parnas, noting that he's godfather to Parnas' child. Parnas "in very large part" didn't tell the truth in his media interviews, Rudy says

On whether he tried to surveil then-US ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, Giuliani said: "No, I did not ... In fact, she directed the surveillance of me!"

10:41 PM - Jan 20, 2020

there'a that Judicial Watch talking point.

Sheepinator · Jan 20, 2020

cameron said:
Rebecca Ballhaus @rebeccaballhaus

Rudy Giuliani on Fox News: "Lev is someone I'm—I was close to. Obviously I was misled by him. I feel very bad, I was godfather to his child ... I still feel sorry for him. I'm not going to respond to him for each and every one of the misrepresentations he has made."

10:45 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Rebecca Ballhaus @rebeccaballhaus

More Rudy: "If I'm called as a witness I'm prepared to do it. In fact, I wouldn't mind being called as a witness for a lot of reasons." https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1219466012816551942 …

10:45 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Manu Raju @mkraju

Giuliani says on Fox that he was "obviously misled" by Lev Parnas, noting that he's godfather to Parnas' child. Parnas "in very large part" didn't tell the truth in his media interviews, Rudy says

On whether he tried to surveil then-US ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, Giuliani said: "No, I did not ... In fact, she directed the surveillance of me!"

10:41 PM - Jan 20, 2020

Wow, I had missed that old news that Rudy is godfather to Parnas' son, the guy whose company is called Fraud Guarantee. You can't make this stuff up. This is daytime soap levels of hilarity.

SatelliteOfLove · Jan 20, 2020

Wilsongt said:
Florida Man and his posse saying he's gonna win Virginia because a couple of gun nuts and Nazis marching make me lol

Its interesting how these white supremecist tacticool hootenannies bookend the period VA surged into blue state territory.

Wilsongt · Jan 20, 2020

skullmuffins said:
I must have missed the part of the right wing conspiracy theory that explains why and how the US ambassador to Ukraine would be surveilling Rudy Giuliani and Don Jr

it's Judicial Watch bullshit.

Deleted member 31817 · Jan 20, 2020

skullmuffins said:
I must have missed the part of the right wing conspiracy theory that explains why and how the US ambassador to Ukraine would be surveilling Rudy Giuliani and Don Jr

Me too lol

Deleted member 31817 · Jan 20, 2020

It's like they're addicted to projecting even when it makes absolutely no sense from any angle whatsoever

patientzero · Jan 20, 2020

lmcfigs said:
i have no allies in this thread apparently :(

For what it's worth, I know you're coming from a good place. You want what's best for everyone and we have disagreements on how to do that. And I admit a large self-bias in that I've been in this shit since the late 90s, of voting age since 2004. I'm simultaneously idealistic as I was at 13, but jaded as I am having been in this. And I have degrees in political science, sociology, psychology, and English that mold me in various ways.

But at the end of the day, we want similar end goals.

B-Dubs · Jan 20, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The Bernie-Sirota disconnect right now is massive. Bernie seems to have little idea what his camp is doing and doesn't seem to approve it. This is bizarre.

Or that's the plan? Have surrogates trash the others and then condemn them to keep above the fray.

Dude's a politician and it's a smart move.

Seeya · Jan 20, 2020

patientzero said:
This is worse than incompetence.

It's goddamned laziness.

I will never say I am the hardest working person, but when I do commit to a job, a presentation, a relation, or whatever other aspect of our lives requires work, I fucking commit to the work. I'm details-oriented; I want to know exactly where that address is (give me a zip code); I want to know how long this presentation is supposed to be and I want to get it down to a science; you want a word count? I'll write it to within 5 words, always over.

That's what I want in someone in a leadership, thus Presidential, role. I think Warren is that person; I though Hillary would be that person. Bernie isn't that person. He's a lazy ass.

Sanders has a history of working on detailed legislation, manages to work with everyone, and is the hardest campaigner in the race. Unless I've heard otherwise he's also the only senate candidate that is flying back and forth during impeachment to still campaign. If there are disconnects it's because Sanders is nearly always fullfiling obligations, at a rally, or flying somewhere. Granted he should get them more in line if this the plan.

But sure we'll call him lazy. Makes sense.

RastaMentality · Jan 20, 2020

B-Dubs said:
Or that's the plan? Have surrogates trash the others and then condemn them to keep above the fray.

Dude's a politician and it's a smart move.

Not really when you get moments like Tur/Gray.

GrapeApes · Jan 20, 2020

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1219440181893304321

Trump come get your boy

patientzero · Jan 20, 2020

Seeya said:
But sure we'll call him lazy.

Intellectually so, undoubtedly.

lmcfigs · Jan 20, 2020

B-Dubs said:
Or that's the plan? Have surrogates trash the others and then condemn them to keep above the fray.

Dude's a politician and it's a smart move.

I think this makes more sense than the idea that David Sirota is this lone wolf figure. like Bernie doesn't follow his tweets and probably really isn't aware of it, but Faiz Shakir would most certainly stop it. And when it came to the social security stuff, he doubled down on what Sirota was saying.

jack_package_200 · Jan 20, 2020

RastaMentality said:
Not really when you get moments like Tur/Gray.

Its kind of crazy how hard Brie bombed on Tur's show.

Dream Machine · Jan 20, 2020

patientzero said:
For what it's worth, I know you're coming from a good place. You want what's best for everyone and we have disagreements on how to do that. And I admit a large self-bias in that I've been in this shit since the late 90s, of voting age since 2004. I'm simultaneously idealistic as I was at 13, but jaded as I am having been in this. And I have degrees in political science, sociology, psychology, and English that mold me in various ways.

But at the end of the day, we want similar end goals.

Why do you have so many degrees, sir?

Wilsongt · Jan 20, 2020

"Gun rights supporters..." God I hate our media.

Seattle6418 · Jan 20, 2020

adam387 said:
I have a question for Sanders supporters that's not meant to be rude.or dismissive. Where do you envision Bernie making up his delegate loses in the south?

California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin come to mind. If the topic is envisioning, i see him losing by a lot less in the south, so it´s not like he has to make up 500+ delegates from the south alone.

If young turnout is good, he has a very good path.

lmcfigs · Jan 20, 2020

Seattle6418 said:
California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin come to mind. If the topic is envisioning, i see him losing by a lot less in the south, so it´s not like he has to make up 500+ delegates from the south alone.

If young turnout is good, he has a very good path.

it's going to be a blowout in the south. Biden is so far ahead in first place. after seeing that Mississippi thread; it's becoming very clear that Bernie does not have a path for minimizing his losses - if he thinks the plan is to reach out to white voters. He probably never had a chance at winning the black vote in the south to begin w/- no one except for Biden really can do that now; but he could have made some gains. He has not.

Ichthyosaurus · Jan 20, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The Bernie-Sirota disconnect right now is massive. Bernie seems to have little idea what his camp is doing and doesn't seem to approve it. This is bizarre.

I remember back in '16 there were articles which showed Bernie was in complete control of his campaign so I'd take that with a mountain of salt.

Seeya said:
Sanders has a history of working on detailed legislation, manages to work with everyone, and is the hardest campaigner in the race. Unless I've heard otherwise he's also the only senate candidate that is flying back and forth during impeachment to still campaign. If there are disconnects it's because Sanders is nearly always fullfiling obligations, at a rally, or flying somewhere. Granted he should get them more in line if this the plan.

But sure we'll call him lazy. Makes sense.

That's debatable.

shinra-bansho · Jan 20, 2020

Seattle6418 said:
California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin come to mind. If the topic is envisioning, i see him losing by a lot less in the south, so it´s not like he has to make up 500+ delegates from the south alone.

If young turnout is good, he has a very good path.

I think adam was looking for realistic scenarios.

TheHunter · Jan 20, 2020

I'm stuck in a hell where my own leftist allies think I'm rightwing.

Kill me.

Stinkles · Jan 20, 2020

TheHunter said:
I'm stuck in a hell where my own leftist allies think I'm rightwing.

Kill me.

"You're fifteen hitlers worse than right wing. You're centrist." Karl Marx to Leon Trotsky, Starbucks, Kiev.

woman · Jan 20, 2020

pigeon · Jan 20, 2020

shinra-bansho said:
I think adam was looking for realistic scenarios.

It's not that unrealistic. Biden isn't Clinton, and there are other candidates in the race. An ideal Bernie scenario starts with him winning Iowa and doing well in NH, then having some voters migrate to him as the frontrunner. If Warren ends Iowa in 5th and drops out, so much the better for Bernie. He can still win while losing the south if he does well in a lot of other states, and California would actually matter.

lmcfigs · Jan 20, 2020

Idk people seem fine w/ Biden as the nominee all the sudden.

jack_package_200 · Jan 20, 2020

TheHunter said:
I'm stuck in a hell where my own leftist allies think I'm rightwing.

Kill me.

But who else will stan Terminator: Dark Fate with me?

ItRhymesWithDoom · Jan 20, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The Bernie-Sirota disconnect right now is massive. Bernie seems to have little idea what his camp is doing and doesn't seem to approve it. This is bizarre.

It's a constant from his previous campaign, which was equally vindictive and petty. Not to mention half his fans are probably not even Americans (and oddly enough are very fluent in Russian), and that the other half is the "ideal leftist", that is: the kind of person who wants to yell about how right they are about other people's shit without ever having to prove their own worth or fallibility (I'm Dutch, trust me, that's a thing, I used to be one). Which is kind of a constant on the 'ideal left', and the reason I'm not voting for that type of left anymore. I did start out voting for the (Dutch) Green-left when I was 18, but as soon as they get near power, they self-sabotage so don't have to fall from grace by actual action. And they do so every damn time too. It's lame and pathetic, all to avoid shame of having to make decisions and face the consequences.

So seeing that behavior among Bernie 'fans' is not a shocker to me. Also why I'm more interested in Warren, and think Sanders should essentially just admit defeat and walk away already. Yes, I know his fans don't like to hear that, but he already fucked up 2016, and I have honestly never liked the idea of him running again for 2020.

edit: don't get me wrong, I enjoy his presence during the debates, if only to counter the moderate response, but this kind of bullshit was always going to happen again with him. I'm sorry, but that's just what that is.

jack_package_200 · Jan 20, 2020

lmcfigs said:
Idk people seem fine w/ Biden as the nominee all the sudden.

Acceptance stage of grief

adam387 · Jan 20, 2020

Seattle6418 said:
California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin come to mind. If the topic is envisioning, i see him losing by a lot less in the south, so it´s not like he has to make up 500+ delegates from the south alone.

If young turnout is good, he has a very good path.

But, and again, this is just me discussing your points not shitting on you...the math doesn't add up. (Which was my point for posing the question to begin with). Using the RCP averages, Biden is currently ahead in California and Iowa. But, even if Bernie does win Iowa, for example, he's not winning it by massive 15-20 point margins which is what he absolutely has to do to negate some of these loses. Currently, in South Carolina Bernie is barely polling as viable. In Alabama, 538 has Biden netting 20 delegates over Bernie.That's in one state. With the lack of caucuses, I just do not see where he is suddenly going to get enough delegates to overcome any type of delegate deficit.

lmcfigs said:
Idk people seem fine w/ Biden as the nominee all the sudden.

Acceptance is an important part in dealing with grief, unfortunately. It is far, far more likely to be Biden than anyone else.

patientzero · Jan 20, 2020

Dream Machine said:
Why do you have so many degrees, sir?

I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

I attended Kent State University from 2004-2009. I went in wanting Political Science (international relations specialty) because of my unbridled hatred toward the Bush administration and what they were doing overseas. I ran into a weird scenario where I picked up a lot of Psych and Soc credits because I liked the classes. More to that point, my grandparents owned three houses - their own, my childhood home, and a rental property. Mind you, not one of these houses is valued over $75k (they are inner city, in an immigrant neighborhood). So at 18 I had my own place and the rental property paid my tuition; in 2009 I triple-majored in Political Science, Sociology, and Psychology.

I graduated with social sciences directly into the recession. Nothing for me existed, especially as I was helping my grandparents and thus land-locked. I got together with a friend for a bit (it's a long thing) and re-enrolled through the English department in fall 2010. I became a writing tutor through that program and completed the degree in 2013, a tutor throughout and freelance until Fall 2015.

That's when I started my MA in Literary and Textual Studies. Did that on stipend as an instructor through Spring 2017; completing my thesis now, having been employed since at a community college as a professional writing tutor.

Basically, I was simultaneously super lucky and super screwed. Family funds helped out a lot but the recession fucked me hard. I got a free MA ride, but had to extend it. Family helped out more, but I helped them in turn (especially in my father's death, one grandfather's death, another grandfather committing suicide by gun, plus other family deaths, it's been a thing).

Currently still a professional tutor, applying for full-time positions, eventually going for PhD in Cultural Anthropology so I can pursue tenure and get in front of a classroom again as I love teaching and can honestly say I'm good at it.

Ichthyosaurus · Jan 20, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
But who else will stan Terminator: Dark Fate with me?

shinra-bansho · Jan 20, 2020

Meh. He won NH and came close in Iowa last go around, without another candidate splitting the left flank vote.

Proportional allocation means even if he did win California or Wisconsin or whatever he'd not make up for losses in the South. And he's not even leading in Cali anyway.

This is turning into 2016 take two.

adam387 · Jan 20, 2020

Can i just say how fugging stupid the whole corruption and lying about what Biden said about Paul Ryan is? Because, like, you shot your wad on stupid attacks that, in one case, was completely untrue and in the second now makes it very hard for you to legitimately engage in criticism of Biden. Why are these people so bad at attacking Biden!?

Anita. Hill.
24/7/365.

it's one of the most horrific things any Democrat has ever done and the fact that no one has even brought it up to Biden is fucking asinine. I'd be hitting that note all the damn day. Constantly. Over and over and over and over. But instead, you've basically given Biden a get out of jail free card, because any time Bernie tries to go after legitimate issues with Biden and social security, Biden is going to point to the fact that Polifact said you misconstrued his words. Your surrogate, and in fact your press secretary, has gone on the record defending an op-ed that you just now disavowed....

it's absolutely stupid.

Dream Machine · Jan 20, 2020

TheHunter said:
I'm stuck in a hell where my own leftist allies think I'm rightwing.

Kill me.

The Namekian · Jan 20, 2020

adam387 said:
It's his same MO.
He literally won't do it to anyone's face. Let's someone else do it, then throws his hands up in innocence.
Absolute trash.

However, if a candidate calls him out...... snake emojis

AnotherNils · Jan 20, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
Acceptance stage of grief

Very much. Once Warren nosedived it was time to acknowledge the seemingly inevitable.

shinra-bansho · Jan 20, 2020

I kind of wanna see them poll scenarios where either one of Warren or Sanders quits now.

sphagnum · Jan 20, 2020

TheHunter said:
I'm stuck in a hell where my own leftist allies think I'm rightwing.

Kill me.

You're living the dream

of Proudhon

Aaron · Jan 20, 2020

Dream Machine said:

Pictured: Sanders supporters after he loses the primary

lmcfigs · Jan 20, 2020

adam387 said:
Can i just say how fugging stupid the whole corruption and lying about what Biden said about Paul Ryan is? Because, like, you shot your wad on stupid attacks that, in one case, was completely untrue and in the second now makes it very hard for you to legitimately engage in criticism of Biden. Why are these people so bad at attacking Biden!?

Anita. Hill.
24/7/365.

it's one of the most horrific things any Democrat has ever done and the fact that no one has even brought it up to Biden is fucking asinine. I'd be hitting that note all the damn day. Constantly. Over and over and over and over. But instead, you've basically given Biden a get out of jail free card, because any time Bernie tries to go after legitimate issues with Biden and social security, Biden is going to point to the fact that Polifact said you misconstrued his words. Your surrogate, and in fact your press secretary, has gone on the record defending an op-ed that you just now disavowed....

it's absolutely stupid.

I don't think it would've made a difference. Just like how the completely legitimate attacks on Biden's support for the Iraq war didn't make a difference. He just lies about it, saying he opposed it from the start - finding a high profile surrogate to argue on his behalf on tv. People believe it or don't. But Biden will find someone to defend him on tv either way. People came to his defense on busing. there's no reason think that people magically would care more about the other dozen videos we have of Biden saying he wants to cut social security because of the one uncharitable one that was shared among them.

adam387 · Jan 20, 2020

shinra-bansho said:
Meh. He won NH and came close in Iowa last go around, without another candidate splitting the left flank vote.

Proportional allocation means even if he did win California or Wisconsin or whatever he'd not make up for losses in the South. And he's not even leading in Cali anyway.

This is turning into 2016 take two.

To piggy back off this a bit....

I am not convinced on this entire argument that Bernie just needs to win Iowa and NH to prove he's capable of winning and, therefore, electable. The man literally won states in 2016. Quite a few of them! It's not like straight cis-gendered white men have clouds of doubt around them. The fact that we're even talking about the possibility of not winning NH is...it's kinda indicative of his issues IMO. NH shouldn't even be close. He should be running away with NH. I cannot fathom why a voter in SC is suddenly going to go "Oh wait that Bernie guy who won states in 2016, including NH, can actually win!? I gotta support him now." It just doesn't work for me logically. Obama having to prove he could win? Absolutely, because people are racist shits. Hillary having to prove she can win? Absolutely, because people are sexist fucks. An old white man, who ran before, suddenly having to prove he is capable of winning a state he won by like a bajliion points 4 years ago that will somehow change the makeup of the race? I don't see it.

The Namekian · Jan 20, 2020

Blue Skies said:
Jailed felons voting, while the civically correct position, is soooooo easily weaponized politically that it's just not worth risking the other things you want to get done.

Bernie Sanders promises us:
Free college
No deportations
Voting for jailed felons (is how it will be phrased)
Escape from the middle east
Free healthcare for all
$15 minimum wage
Legalization of marijuana

that's hefty.
he would accomplish
Legalization of marijuana

compromised versions of:
Free college
$15 wage
Free healthcare

and barely nothing will be accomplished as far as the rest goes.

Not the biggest Bernie fan but if he does legalization of Marijuana, free healthcare, 15 minimum wage nationally, and "compromised" free college .... that is a hell of a run as President. Even over 8 years.

jack_package_200 · Jan 20, 2020

AnotherNils said:
Very much. Once Warren nosedived it was time to acknowledge the seemingly inevitable.

I hate that the reason she nosedived is she tried to make Medicare for All into something that could be tangible/doable.

US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| THE ANTI BENGHAZI (Read Staff Post)

Deleted member 31817

Deleted member 31817

That's some catch, that catch-22

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

I’m seeing double here!