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shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
To piggy back off this a bit....

I am not convinced on this entire argument that Bernie just needs to win Iowa and NH to prove he's capable of winning and, therefore, electable. The man literally won states in 2016. Quite a few of them! It's not like straight cis-gendered white men have clouds of doubt around them. The fact that we're even talking about the possibility of not winning NH is...it's kinda indicative of his issues IMO. NH shouldn't even be close. He should be running away with NH. I cannot fathom why a voter in SC is suddenly going to go "Oh wait that Bernie guy who won states in 2016, including NH, can actually win!? I gotta support him now." It just doesn't work for me logically. Obama having to prove he could win? Absolutely, because people are racist shits. Hillary having to prove she can win? Absolutely, because people are sexist fucks. An old white man, who ran before, suddenly having to prove he is capable of winning a state he won by like a bajliion points 4 years ago that will somehow change the makeup of the race? I don't see it.
Along these lines...
In the hypothetical that Sanders didn't run again... I could see Warren being the nominee? I'm less convinced vice versa.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
To piggy back off this a bit....

I am not convinced on this entire argument that Bernie just needs to win Iowa and NH to prove he's capable of winning and, therefore, electable. The man literally won states in 2016. Quite a few of them! It's not like straight cis-gendered white men have clouds of doubt around them. The fact that we're even talking about the possibility of not winning NH is...it's kinda indicative of his issues IMO. NH shouldn't even be close. He should be running away with NH. I cannot fathom why a voter in SC is suddenly going to go "Oh wait that Bernie guy who won states in 2016, including NH, can actually win!? I gotta support him now." It just doesn't work for me logically. Obama having to prove he could win? Absolutely, because people are racist shits. Hillary having to prove she can win? Absolutely, because people are sexist fucks. An old white man, who ran before, suddenly having to prove he is capable of winning a state he won by like a bajliion points 4 years ago that will somehow change the makeup of the race? I don't see it.
Idk why you think he would have an easier time. He wasn't running against the Vice President of a very popular president in 2016. Couldn't you flip that question around? Like when 85%+ of your party identifies as Obama Democrats, why isn't his VP of 8 years running away with the nomination in every state?
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
Not the biggest Bernie fan but if he does legalization of Marijuana, free healthcare, 15 minimum wage nationally, and "compromised" free college .... that is a hell of a run as President. Even over 8 years.
Marijuana does gonna be legal by the end of 2021. It's just time. It's up on many states again this election isn't it? It'll be over half the states with at least one form of legal weed.
I said compromised for healthcare, college, and minimum wage.
it can happen.
maybe a $10 minimum wage, 2 years free community college, and maybe a public option?
Healthcare is just fucking hard
 

Dr. Feel Good

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,996
I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

I attended Kent State University from 2004-2009. I went in wanting Political Science (international relations specialty) because of my unbridled hatred toward the Bush administration and what they were doing overseas. I ran into a weird scenario where I picked up a lot of Psych and Soc credits because I liked the classes. More to that point, my grandparents owned three houses - their own, my childhood home, and a rental property. Mind you, not one of these houses is valued over $75k (they are inner city, in an immigrant neighborhood). So at 18 I had my own place and the rental property paid my tuition; in 2009 I triple-majored in Political Science, Sociology, and Psychology.

I graduated with social sciences directly into the recession. Nothing for me existed, especially as I was helping my grandparents and thus land-locked. I got together with a friend for a bit (it's a long thing) and re-enrolled through the English department in fall 2010. I became a writing tutor through that program and completed the degree in 2013, a tutor throughout and freelance until Fall 2015.

That's when I started my MA in Literary and Textual Studies. Did that on stipend as an instructor through Spring 2017; completing my thesis now, having been employed since at a community college as a professional writing tutor.

Basically, I was simultaneously super lucky and super screwed. Family funds helped out a lot but the recession fucked me hard. I got a free MA ride, but had to extend it. Family helped out more, but I helped them in turn (especially in my father's death, one grandfather's death, another grandfather committing suicide by gun, plus other family deaths, it's been a thing).

Currently still a professional tutor, applying for full-time positions, eventually going for PhD in Cultural Anthropology so I can pursue tenure and get in front of a classroom again as I love teaching and can honestly say I'm good at it.

Have you ever done an ROI analysis on these degrees and expected outcomes? Of all the degrees you got you ended up in a Masters program that arguably is the least useful advancement of your existing bachelors, even despite it being free (Top 30 JD > Masters in Psychology > Masters in Sociology > Masters in English/Literary). And now you want to go for a PhD in Cultural Anthropology? No offense but the recession isn't the issue here, it could be your choosing academic paths with very limited opportunities and oversaturation of potential candidates.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I don't think it would've made a difference. Just like how the completely legitimate attacks on Biden's support for the Iraq war didn't make a difference. He just lies about it, saying he opposed it from the start - finding a high profile surrogate to argue on his behalf on tv. People believe it or don't. But Biden will find someone to defend him on tv either way. People came to his defense on busing. there's no reason think that people magically would care more about the other dozen videos we have of Biden saying he wants to cut social security because of the one uncharitable one that was shared among them.
So it may not have worked, you're absolutely right. I still think it was the best bet. I mentioned this yesterday (i think) but Biden is....people have their mind made up about him. They sorta just map their ideas onto him because the fucker is likable as all hell. And a man. Men get that privilege, women do not.

I think the issue with the iraq thing is that it has been sorta been played out at this point. I just don't know how many folks are really concerned about a vote that happened nearly 20 years ago, you know? It's been vetted with voters. It was part of why Hillary lost in 2008. It had no effect against Hillary in 2016. I'm not sure bringing it out again was ever going to change anything, especially since Biden has that ever important penis.

The social security thing is 100% fair and should be leveled against him. I want all the candidates to be attacked because I want to see how they respond and how they deal. I just think if you're going to swing at someone you better be damn sure you're accurate so you don't give them an easy out. Sirota being a moron (again) made it more difficult for Bernie to be able to level those attacks. But it's over now so there's nothing we can do about it at this point, unfortunately.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,877
New York City
Marijuana does gonna be legal by the end of 2021. It's just time. It's up on many states again this election isn't it? It'll be over half the states with at least one form of legal weed.
I said compromised for healthcare, college, and minimum wage.
it can happen.
maybe a $10 minimum wage, 2 years free community college, and maybe a public option?
Healthcare is just fucking hard

Ok that clarification makes it's a lot more unimpressive
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Idk why you think he would have an easier time. He wasn't running against the Vice President of a very popular president in 2016. Couldn't you flip that question around? Like when 85%+ of your party identifies as Obama Democrats, why isn't his VP of 8 years running away with the nomination in every state?
Biden has never won a primary though. He's never been THE guy. (At least not successfully, see his other attempts at running.) Like, I definitely am not arguing that Biden is this super strong candidate in the primary. He's not. He's better suited for the general than the primary. Bernie is better suited for the primary than the general. But my overall point is, I don't agree with the idea that Bernie just has to prove he can win a primary/caucus. 2016 happened. He's already proven that against a far better candidate than Joe Biden. Biden has literally just kinda....meandered his way to these primaries. He's done half the work of Hillary and he very well may end up having a larger margin.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
So it may not have worked, you're absolutely right. I still think it was the best bet. I mentioned this yesterday (i think) but Biden is....people have their mind made up about him. They sorta just map their ideas onto him because the fucker is likable as all hell. And a man. Men get that privilege, women do not.

I think the issue with the iraq thing is that it has been sorta been played out at this point. I just don't know how many folks are really concerned about a vote that happened nearly 20 years ago, you know? It's been vetted with voters. It was part of why Hillary lost in 2008. It had no effect against Hillary in 2016. I'm not sure bringing it out again was ever going to change anything, especially since Biden has that ever important penis.

The social security thing is 100% fair and should be leveled against him. I want all the candidates to be attacked because I want to see how they respond and how they deal. I just think if you're going to swing at someone you better be damn sure you're accurate so you don't give them an easy out. Sirota being a moron (again) made it more difficult for Bernie to be able to level those attacks. But it's over now so there's nothing we can do about it at this point, unfortunately.
I think probably it wouldn't have made a difference but I also wished they hadn't done it.

I think after seeing the recent thread on Mississippi, it's clear that Sanders has not changed his strategy for winning the primaries in the south. It is bizarre and unfortunate that they're just giving Biden a free w. Hopefully they change soon, but yeah those comments about reaching out to white voters in a democratic primary. Like idk. Just seems like he's not trying.
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,212
Well I have had an exhilarating evening. Watching Rogue One straight into A New Hope really refreshes the second movie. Highly recommended, if you know what I mean.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
I mean it's actually really pretty simple as to why Bernie Sanders will not win the primary?

Bernie Sanders lost the primary once already.

In order to change that he needs to either bank on 1) winning enough new primary voters that couldn't vote in 2016 and/or 2) winning over those who didn't vote for him in 2016, while 3) maintaining all of his support from 2016.

He is doing none of these.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,877
New York City
You know looking back at this whole thing and I really am annoyed that Amy and Steyer are still in it and Kamala dropped out weeks ago.

Candidate wise she was definitely top 5. I know she had a shitty campaign but what a waste.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
I mean it's actually really pretty simple as to why Bernie Sanders will not win the primary?

Bernie Sanders lost the primary once already.

In order to change that he needs to either bank on 1) winning enough new primary voters that couldn't vote in 2016 and/or 2) winning over those who didn't vote for him in 2016, while 3) maintaining all of his support from 2016.

He is doing none of these.
If it was just him versus Biden, then I think Bern would've won.
but it's them, Pete, Warren, Klob, etc. The large field has only helped Biden
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
I mean it's actually really pretty simple as to why Bernie Sanders will not win the primary?

Bernie Sanders lost the primary once already.

In order to change that he needs to either bank on 1) winning enough new primary voters that couldn't vote in 2016 and/or 2) winning over those who didn't vote for him in 2016, while 3) maintaining all of his support from 2016.

He is doing none of these.

Bernie's strategy is very zero sum, like in the South. In '16 he didn't bother while in '20 he seems to be putting his chips in Mississippi, rather than being pragmatic and having a nuanced plan.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
You know looking back at this whole thing and I really am annoyed that Amy and Steyer are still in it and Kamala dropped out weeks ago.

Candidate wise she was definitely top 5. I know she had a shitty campaign but what a waste.
She's actually the candidate "in the middle" of the Warren wing and the Klob wing that the NYT couldn't pick between.

she def dropped out cause Biden promised her VP is my guess.
 

Deleted member 2426

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Every campaign uses surrogates to fight the petty wars. Obama did it, Clinton did it.

People pretending this is Bernie's particular trait are not being transparent.
 
Nov 20, 2017
3,613
How did Amy manage to stay in if the reason Kamala dropped out was money?

Kamala ramped up her operation way too fast and was bleeding a lot of money I think, especially once she fell to single digits in polling (plus a lot of her voters were fickle and fled to other campaigns). Amy's campaign has never run at the same scale, and is still very Iowa-focused.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
I do enjoy thinking about that time Kamala called herself a top tier candidate. Pete saying the race was coming down to a 1 v 1 between him and Biden gives me similar vibes.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
This trial is going to be such a mess. I can only hope the public gets a good view of how much of a sham it's going to be.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
If it was just him versus Biden, then I think Bern would've won.
but it's them, Pete, Warren, Klob, etc. The large field has only helped Biden
Nah. If anything it handicaps Biden.
Biden is picking up some former soft Sanders vote that was just ABC.

Warren picks up both ex-Clinton and Sanders support. It's why I hold the view she had greater potential at winning against Biden, she could do what he doesn't seem able to. Win over Clinton voters.

Because reminder to everyone. Clinton's voters won the primary.
 

gcubed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
Biden is being handicapped by Klobuchar and Buttigieg though
and Steyer, and Bloomberg... who won't run out of money to throw at advertisements. They are mostly irrelevant as actual voting draws near, but there is much more vote splitting for Biden then there is with Bernie. Now, 3 of those 4 add up to maybe Warren... but still, the "moderates" have no faith in Biden, but can't seem to really put a huge dent in his numbers.

Biden is a loser, so that is what ultimately scares me about him being the nominee.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I think probably it wouldn't have made a difference but I also wished they hadn't done it.

I think after seeing the recent thread on Mississippi, it's clear that Sanders has not changed his strategy for winning the primaries in the south. It is bizarre and unfortunate that they're just giving Biden a free w. Hopefully they change soon, but yeah those comments about reaching out to white voters in a democratic primary. Like idk. Just seems like he's not trying.
I do not get the Mississippi strategy thing at all. Like, of all the states to focus on....Mississippi? The state that he lost by the biggest margin in 2016? I would think the far bigger prize would be winning SC for narrative purposes. If they think SC is too far gone, though, I'm pretty sure the rest of the south is really, really far gone.

And, to be clear, I don't think Bernie is a bad campaigner in the south because he's a massive racist or whatever stupid talking point some folks like to push on Twitter. I don't think that at all. He just seems....incapable of making connections with southern voters. I do think part of is they are more conservative, and he's never been...nimble at tailoring his stump. Plus, in some red states, the only check any folks have on GOP bullshit is the Presidency, so voters tend to be way more pragmatic. I think he's also boned because he's not going to get the Anyone But Clinton white southerners from 2016.

Like, it would not shock me whatsoever if Biden is the only viable candidate in SC.
 

patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Have you ever done an ROI analysis on these degrees and expected outcomes? Of all the degrees you got you ended up in a Masters program that arguably is the least useful advancement of your existing bachelors, even despite it being free (Top 30 JD > Masters in Psychology > Masters in Sociology > Masters in English/Literary). And now you want to go for a PhD in Cultural Anthropology? No offense but the recession isn't the issue here, it could be your choosing academic paths with very limited opportunities and oversaturation of potential candidates.

Oh, I've been there. I think about this stuff daily.

Basically, my initial undergrads did jack shit in prepping me for anything beyond college. I hold it against them; and sadly it's not a new thing for social science majors to get screwed by their programs in finding employment. These programs are roundly terrible at it.

As for limited opportunities...duh? It's social sciences and humanities.

I have a very defined path on the PhD regarding an eventual dissertation. I know the community I'm working with, I live within their residential community, and it combines the disparate elements of my undergrads. And again, family rears their head, in that a single death in the family grants me enough money to support myself through the PhD and a few years beyond. As much as I worry, my future is pretty well set, it's just getting to that point.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,922
Kamala fucked up with her "3 am" shpiel. Shit was weird
She tried to fight Warren over getting her to agree Trump should be banned on Twitter. That was when the campaign died.

Bernie getting lit UP in those replies.
It amazes me how poorly run Bernie's campaign is.

Kamala should have annihilated Biden on Anita Hill before dropping out.
Tulsi saved Biden, lol.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Everyone should have gotten a BFA in Creative Writing and Sociology like I did.

Highly educated and completely unemployable.

Thank you.
 
Nov 20, 2017
3,613
The Kamala campaign is just so bizarre to me. Like she's clearly a very good Senator but made all these rookie errors in her Presidential campaign and surrounded herself with some of the worst of Hillary's staff.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
iea44Gt.jpg

this bothers me so much.

he clearly says, 'am i so out of touch?'
 

patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Everyone should have gotten a BFA in Creative Writing and Sociology like I did.

Highly educated and completely unemployable.

Thank you.

Hey now, my original Master's of choice was an MFA in Creative Writing.

That said, I do kind of enjoy a topic in which those of us who pursued non-STEM fields yet are admonished for not supporting the socialist of the year are told we made bad career choices.
 

divination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,002
Although keep in mind people got similarly upset when Bernie called John McCain a friend after he died. I don't hate to see it, but idk if I love it either.
Yeah, I remember when that happened.

It is kinda funny tho how Bernie has spent this entire campaign so far saying how friendly he is with Biden and now this video of him saying Biden isn't corrupt while his most loyal supporters see Biden as The Great Satan lol. I get that he's probably doing it to not alienate Biden supporters, but still funny.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
I've just been stockpiling economics degrees. Idk what to do with them. I do want to get a masters in philosophy at some point. Idk what I'm doing :(
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
Warrens campaign this, Bernies campaign that, Amy's stapler there, Petes campign what, and means while I gotta ask: does Biden even have a campaign manager? Like, I don't hear anything about his staff ever. Does he just like show up to these debates and events out of thin air?
Is he secretly running the tightest, fittest ship?
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Warrens campaign this, Bernies campaign that, Amy's stapler there, Petes campign what, and means while I gotta ask: does Biden even have a campaign manager? Like, I don't hear anything about his staff ever. Does he just like show up to these debates and events out of thin air?
Is he secretly running the tightest, fittest ship?
He makes all the mistakes himself. what I mean is Biden's staff is more competent than he is. The only time they make the news is when they have to distance themselves from Biden.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
Let the nerds nerd.

Everyone should have gotten a BFA in Creative Writing and Sociology like I did.

Highly educated and completely unemployable.

Thank you.

Would-be Bsc in Sociology, present!

It's not the education that's the problem, it's that you haven't found a way to monetize it yet. Look, ROI is a dumb notion anyway, since it's just Effort / Return, which will always give some number, and that number.... doesn't mean anything. If you wrote a novel that suddenly becomes the next GoT, your returns would be insane whereas the Effort stays exactly the same in any scenario.
They are not good measures of evaluating the meaning of human lives.

More importantly, most people do not actually wind up in the field that they study for, so that whole myth of 'study with purpose' isn't helpful.
 
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