US PoliEra 2020 |OT 2| Dershowitz says "Quid Pro Quo on the Go?" [See Staff Post]

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patientzero

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Oct 25, 2017
4,268
I mean, all tea all shade here...

The voter file is not free. It costs a fuck ton of money to keep that shit even close to updated (and that's being a bit generous because of a lot of factors.) It is not unreasonable that every candidate needs to do their part to raise money to gain access to this data. When you are running to be the nominee of the party, you are also running to be the head of said party. You are the standard bearer. You should have to contribute to gain access to the data. Again, it would be really shitty if 5 candidates headlined a fundraiser to raise money for the party, then the 6th person refuses to participate but still expects to get the Unity Fund money AND the voter file. Nah. You want to run as a Dem, do your part.
Sanders supports as Veruca Salt.

 

jviggy43

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Oct 28, 2017
17,159
I mean, all tea all shade here...

The voter file is not free. It costs a fuck ton of money to keep that shit even close to updated (and that's being a bit generous because of a lot of factors.) It is not unreasonable that every candidate needs to do their part to raise money to gain access to this data. When you are running to be the nominee of the party, you are also running to be the head of said party. You are the standard bearer. You should have to contribute to gain access to the data. Again, it would be really shitty if 5 candidates headlined a fundraiser to raise money for the party, then the 6th person refuses to participate but still expects to get the Unity Fund money AND the voter file. Nah. You want to run as a Dem, do your part.
I don't have an issue with them asking for some way to help pay for it. But forcing this particular method on candidates isn't the only answer to how to pay for such a thing. I have no issue asking for contribution. But forcing them to fundraise with corporate donors, something thats pretty antithetical to sanders' position, is kind of shitty. Theres no reason why ONLY this method has to be used in order to allow them access to this.

Sanders supports as Veruca Salt.

But no one is saying he should just have them for free? Seems pretty dishonest to say that.
 
Jun 20, 2019
1,118
Well, I think everything turned out ok in the end. I, as a Bernie supporter and someone who is against big donor power in politics, voiced my strong disapproval. Others found something to agree on regarding the Democratic Party seeking big donor money. Everyone’s got a reason to feel satisfied.
 

adam387

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Nov 27, 2017
3,724
If he doesn't want to do the fundraisers, he can totally just write a check for whatever amount he's expected to raise.
That's fine too.
 

Brock Reiher

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Oct 25, 2017
36,784
Well, I think everything turned out ok in the end. I, as a Bernie supporter and someone who is against big donor power in politics, voiced my strong disapproval. Others found something to agree on regarding the Democratic Party seeking big donor money. Everyone’s got a reason to feel satisfied.
He may be better at compromising than people realized, a promising sign for the general.
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
7,138
Both Bernie and the "establishment" needs to work together to win this thing absolutely. Luckily, the candidates on stage at the debates generally all like Bernie... and even Bloomberg has signaled he would support Bernie if he is the nominee (as long as he tempers back some of his rhetoric). But Bernie probably has to do some messaging changes (I saw signs of it in NH, calls for unity and calling out names of his friends/rivals) and maybe tweak some framing, or maybe pick a VP to the DNC's liking. He absolutely has to make some sacrifices and work as a team player... otherwise this is a bust.

And the Establishment absolutely has to fully support Bernie and not do this crap of random Democratic congressman talking shit about Bernie or MSNBC pundit talking shit about Bernie. For all the talk about UNITY and shit, that would be hella hypocritical to do when the real enemy is on the other side.
 

adam387

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Nov 27, 2017
3,724
It's funny:

The Venn Diagram of "things that make me feel more positively towards Bernie" and "Things that Bernie supporters hate" is just a circle.
 

patientzero

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Oct 25, 2017
4,268
Hot take: When in a room of Democratic fundraisers, Sanders would give the same damned speech Hillary would have.

Kind of how Sanders will continue drone strikes. Cuz he would.
 

adam387

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Nov 27, 2017
3,724
?

Can you elaborate?
Him doing party fundraisers per his agreement when he decided to run in the Dem primary. That shows he's willing to, occasionally, compromise and do the thing you need to do to win.

Anyway, something I hadn't though of before until I saw a random thing on Twitter:

Turnout in 2008 in NH was 47%.
Turnout in 2016 in NH was 40%
Turnout in 2020 in NH was 43%

Focusing on the raw vote being up isn't the best way to look at it. We should look at it the percentage of eligible voters who voted. So 2020 was right between 2008 and 2016.
 

ScribbleD

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Oct 28, 2017
1,401
Him doing party fundraisers per his agreement when he decided to run in the Dem primary. That shows he's willing to, occasionally, compromise and do the thing you need to do to win.

Anyway, something I hadn't though of before until I saw a random thing on Twitter:

Turnout in 2008 in NH was 47%.
Turnout in 2016 in NH was 40%
Turnout in 2020 in NH was 43%

Focusing on the raw vote being up isn't the best way to look at it. We should look at it the percentage of eligible voters who voted. So 2020 was right between 2008 and 2016.
Sorry, I'm still confused. Is that actually something that you believe makes me angry or upset? Maybe you're not explaining it well, but I'm not seeing it.

Do you have some other examples?
 

adam387

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Nov 27, 2017
3,724
Sorry, I'm still confused. Is that actually something that you believe makes me angry or upset? Maybe you're not explaining it well, but I'm not seeing it.

Do you have some other examples?
I mean, I'm not saying every single thing makes every single Bernie supporter upset lol. There are folks in this thread who literally just said they hope he doesn't do the fundraiser.
 

fragamemnon

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Nov 30, 2017
473
Bernie needs to stop warring the party and show he's not some despotic revolutionary but a friendly old grandpa that just wants to shake things up a bit so the kids can have a good time while he's running the show. No one cares if you hoover up bucks from billionaires if you spend it beating the crap out of Trump, provided that it doesn't mean that you let those donors write the bills later.
 

ScribbleD

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Oct 28, 2017
1,401
I mean, I'm not saying every single thing makes every single Bernie supporter upset lol. There are folks in this thread who literally just said they hope he doesn't do the fundraiser.
Right, but you made a generalization about "things Bernie supporters hate," so I figured with a generalization that broad you'd have something more than a few people disagreeing about something.

Like I said, do you have some other examples of things we hate that you love?
 

devSin

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Oct 27, 2017
4,257
User Warned: Inflammatory generalizations
The point is that I question how Sanders's supporters will continue supporting him even when he commits to certain actions his predecessors did (right or wrong).
Same thing they'll do when he's unable to implement even a single part of his agenda: blame somebody else.
 

Brock Reiher

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Oct 25, 2017
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Bernie needs to stop warring the party and show he's not some despotic revolutionary but a friendly old grandpa that just wants to shake things up a bit so the kids can have a good time while he's running the show. No one cares if you hoover up bucks from billionaires if you spend it beating the crap out of Trump, provided that it doesn't mean that you let those donors write the bills later.
I would personally care, it's one of the reasons I supported Bernie over Warren. I don't understand why doing fundraisers for billionaires would make him seem less despotic or more relatable. One of the things Hillary got hit on hard in 2016 was doing fundraisers while Trump claimed that he was self-funded.

If Bloomberg wants to continue running ads against Trump or for down-ballot races that's a different story, but I think Bernie should continue using small donations. Biden has been funded by billionaires and he's about to go backrupt as his donors flee a sinking ship.
 

ScribbleD

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Oct 28, 2017
1,401
The point is that I question how Sanders's supporters will continue supporting him even when he commits to certain actions his predecessors did (right or wrong).
This is making some weird assumptions about what he is going to do, and what his supporters are going to do.

On that second point, broad generalization about his supporters seems to be kind of the undercurrent going on here ever since someone called Boban "an invader." I thought we were supposed to be passed this here.
 

jviggy43

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Oct 28, 2017
17,159
The point is that I question how Sanders's supporters will continue supporting him even when he commits to certain actions his predecessors did (right or wrong).
I don't think this is a given since one of his major selling points is taking on the american military complex. But if he does do it we well be loud about how wrong it is.
 

ScribbleD

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Oct 28, 2017
1,401
Same thing they'll do when he's unable to implement even a single part of his agenda: blame somebody else.
Can you point out who some of the "theys" are? I mean you have at least a few of his supporters right here in the topic you could just speak to, so not sure why there's this whole routine of "thems" and "theys." It's pretty disrespectful.
 

fragamemnon

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Nov 30, 2017
473
Same thing they'll do when he's unable to implement even a single part of his agenda: blame somebody else.
Not just someone else, they'll blame other Democrats. I mean it's understandable because Republicans aren't every going to be influenced by them. But it's like the the war has no end.

I read stuff like the responses to the Culinary Union above and think this is what DelBene and Schrier (two of my local congresspeople) are going to get when they push back on some of his less popular plans because they are unworkable in their districts.
 

Brock Reiher

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Oct 25, 2017
36,784
Not just someone else, they'll blame other Democrats. I mean it's understandable because Republicans aren't every going to be influenced by them. But it's like the the war has no end.

I read stuff like the responses to the Culinary Union above and think this is what DelBene and Schrier (two of my local congresspeople) are going to get when they push back on some of his less popular plans because they are unworkable in their districts.
This is the case with any politician, right? There's always going to be a Joe Manchin, that's part of governing. There's also a pretty clear endpoint of reforming healthcare, it's just a manner of getting there.

I personally wouldn't want a president who, once elected, just sort of said "mission accomplished" and sat around not fighting for legislation you know?
 

Xaszatm

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Oct 25, 2017
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fragamemnon

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Nov 30, 2017
473
...who are Bernie Sanders supporters blaming again? And why are we blaming again?
Booing women candidates? Chanting "Wall St. Pete"? That just just last weekend at a fundraising dinner for DEMOCRATS.

Like most of the people are great people. Te best people, and not in that awful Trump best people way. But there's this really small but vocal set of supporters doing things that are clearly not normal even when Bernie is really trying to keep a positive unity message going and it rubs me the wrong way.
 
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Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,359
Booing women candidates? Chanting "Wall St. Pete"? That just just last weekend at a fundraising dinner for DEMOCRATS.

Like most of the people are great people. Te best people, and not in that awful Trump best people way. But there's enough Branch Bernidians doing things that are clearly not normal even when Bernie is really trying to keep a positive unity message going that it's hard to know what is really going on in his coalition.
Uh...the Wall St. Pete wasn't just Bernie people you know. I don't remember the booing women candidates thing.
 

ScribbleD

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,401
Booing women candidates? Chanting "Wall St. Pete"? That just just last weekend at a fundraising dinner for DEMOCRATS.

Like most of the people are great people. Te best people, and not in that awful Trump best people way. But there's enough Branch Bernidians doing things that are clearly not normal even when Bernie is really trying to keep a positive unity message going that it's hard to know what is really going on in his coalition.
If most of us are great people, than why all the nonstop generalizations in this thread, including from you, about how bad we are?

Also the first graf you posted doesn't actually address or answer the question of the person you're responding to.
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
Booing women candidates? Chanting "Wall St. Pete"? That just just last weekend at a fundraising dinner for DEMOCRATS.

Like most of the people are great people. Te best people, and not in that awful Trump best people way. But there's enough Branch Bernidians doing things that are clearly not normal even when Bernie is really trying to keep a positive unity message going that it's hard to know what is really going on in his coalition.
Are you referring to this NYT story, which was immediately discredited for featuring testimonials from a known anti-Sanders twitter troll that said all people who vote for Sanders have tiny dicks?
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
473
If most of us are great people, than why all the nonstop generalizations in this thread, including from you, about how bad we are?
I'm just going to lay it out and be honest here.

I see what the GOP has become, where their leaders cower in fear from doing the clearly right thing, because they are trapped in a party with no room for diversity of thought.

I WANT progressive voices dragging sad, older, kinda-broken politically people like me along and fighting to do more than my pessimism allows me to think possible. The party is yours even if it doesn't happen this time around, the writing is on the wall.

But I don't want that to come at the expense of having voices like myself, my neighbors, my family that aren't on the same page but are all loyal, donating, longtime Democrats, squashed by the same kind of fear that's fatally poisoned the GOP. And when I see replies like the one above to Amy's response on that Culinary Union post-yeah, not encouraging.

Big tent, but there's an intolerant left out there that I am super uncomfortable with. Not here in this thread, but they are all backing the same candidate and it's like elephant in the room for me when you think about the Democrats in a post-Trump era.

Are you referring to this NYT story, which was immediately discredited for featuring testimonials from a known anti-Sanders twitter troll that said all people who vote for Sanders have tiny dicks?
So I've never read that story. I'm just responding to what I see whenever I click through on Twitter here, and it's 80% ok this is just a contested primary and 20% mega yikes. At least in '08 the PUMAs and HillaryIs44 types kept it in a medium where politicians and journalists could just ignore them and not have it blasted in their inbox.
 
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