The thing is, people tell us that Bernie's different, that he's special, he's not the usual sort of politician. So, people are being told to expect better out of him. I wasn't saying that Amy or Pete are better people, and I probably shouldn't've mentioned them, just that I was trying to list people who were campaigning for the democratic primary, rather than saying "these are people who are better than bernie." I apologize.
Man if you all think that Bernie's friends are bad, let me pull up a list of Hillary Clinton's friends.
Obama was a FUCKING WIZARD for dodging the Jeremiah Wright shit like it was FUCKING NOTHING.I mean, they fucking suck.
That's part of why she lost in 2008. Obama was fresh and was quick to dodge controversy.
New: Warren held all staff call Tue. night.
"I don't kid myself. I know that when the pundits and naysayers criticize us, I know it gets hard. And I know your jobs get hard, but these are the moments we find out who we are."
My look at Warren on the ropes https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/13/warren-strategy-2020-115047 …
You know what? I've asked for evidence multiple times in this thread, and it's quickly moving, and you're not tagging me, so I'm missing it. I'm trying to catch up with the information being provided and you're not even giving me a chance (the first link you included was after the fact, even after you said to go look it up).Did you not read my post? Actions speak louder than words. His campaign staff harasses people. That isn't an opinion- see the article I posted about Sirota above. Y'all are splitting hairs about Bri, but she's not the only one. And yet he continues to employ both while he claims that harassers aren't part of his movement. AND YET THEY ARE OFFICIALLY PAID MEMBERS OF HIS CAMPAIGN!
Y'know what, I think I'm done, because this thread has been derailed enough. I shouldn't have even bothered to engage because lord knows I usually scroll right past this kind of fighting when I'm catching up on this thread.
Everyone seems to be holding on to their dignity here.There is something really amusing with trying to paint Linkura as some type of half ass poster in trying to get "gotachas" over the course of a few pages.
There is something really amusing with trying to paint Linkura as some type of half ass poster in trying to get "gotachas" over the course of a few pages.
Do you want to find a less incredibly offensive comparison?I view Sanders admonishing bad behavior of his supporters like Trump occasionally saying he renounces white nationalists. its just not that believable.
Umm Tucker Carlson is attacking the foreman of the jury in the Roger Stone case by revealing her Twitter name on his show
The thing is, people tell us that Bernie's different, that he's special, he's not the usual sort of politician. So, people are being told to expect better out of him
I view Sanders admonishing bad behavior of his supporters like Trump occasionally saying he renounces white nationalists. its just not that believable.
Oh cool so we're doing that thing where we compare Sanders to a neo-nazi again. Very cool and normal.
I forget how the cycle goes. Is it "Sanders supporters are basically gamergaters" next, or does something else come first?
Yeah, in fact, his supporters remind me of brownshirts!I view Sanders admonishing bad behavior of his supporters like Trump occasionally saying he renounces white nationalists. its just not that believable.
except that's not the point at all....the comparison is between how Sanders and Trump try to disavow actions and behavior by people that support them and me not really believing either one.
Why should be not believe Sanders when he says he doesn't want to be associated with online/general harassment?except that's not the point at all....the comparison is between how Sanders and Trump try to disavow actions and behavior by people that support them and me not really believing either one.
except that's not the point at all....the comparison is between how Sanders and Trump try to disavow actions and behavior by people that support them and me not really believing either one.
Obama was a FUCKING WIZARD for dodging the Jeremiah Wright shit like it was FUCKING NOTHING.
I'm sympathetic that politicians and celebrities who amass such a following and band of loyalists shouldn't be held 100% responsible for the actions of their fans. Bernie and Trump have an annoyingly devout group of supporters and I'll say maybe it is the vocal minority, but weak efforts of saying 'I'd never condone that!' ring hollow to me as well. And it's not just Bernie/Trump. Beyhive, T Swift and Ariana Grande fans aren't that different.I view Sanders admonishing bad behavior of his supporters like Trump occasionally saying he renounces white nationalists. its just not that believable.
This is pretty fair but I will say that 100% of Trump supporters are Nazis and he absolutely does condone their behavior. Hardcore Bernie fans, as shitty as they can be, aren't in the same ballpark. Hell they ain't even playing the same sport.I'm sympathetic that politicians and celebrities who amass such a following and band of loyalists shouldn't be held 100% responsible for the actions of their fans. Bernie and Trump have an annoyingly devout group of supporters and I'll say maybe it is the vocal minority, but weak efforts of saying 'I'd never condone that!' ring hollow to me as well. And it's not just Bernie/Trump. Beyhive, T Swift and Ariana Grande fans aren't that different.
Didn't he immediately disavow him, and he wasn't even in the audience for the controversial speeches?
Who on his campaign is actually being "toxic" or vicious?I think the fact we now have people labeling outright toxic behavior as "enthusiastic activism" is kinda all that needs to be said about the issue of the lack of accountability outright hostility that Sanders supporters are comfortable displaying both in online environments that have little blow back, but in real world settings that do actually have consequences. Even though we are just two states in, the very growing realization that Sanders has a problem with expanding his base, and that the continued toxicity of his most adamant supporters are doing far more harm than good.
Sanders can't run off of the anti-Hillary vote, and the issue is mounting that he is basically outnumbered right now in terms of the Democratic base voting for Pete/Biden/Klob/Bloom vs Sanders + Warren.
Sanders doesn't have much crossover or second choice voters, and I don't think the loudest people creating the reality of "hostile supporters" is helping, at all.
You're calling people out? There's a disagreement here, no real malice. I don't see why we need to escalate to "lack of accountability".I think the fact we now have people labeling outright toxic behavior as "enthusiastic activism" is kinda all that needs to be said about the issue of the lack of accountability outright hostility that Sanders supporters are comfortable displaying both in online environments that have little blow back, but in real world settings that do actually have consequences. Even though we are just two states in, the very growing realization that Sanders has a problem with expanding his base, and that the continued toxicity of his most adamant supporters are doing far more harm than good.
Sanders can't run off of the anti-Hillary vote, and the issue is mounting that he is basically outnumbered right now in terms of the Democratic base voting for Pete/Biden/Klob/Bloom vs Sanders + Warren.
Sanders doesn't have much crossover or second choice voters, and I don't think the loudest people creating the reality of "hostile supporters" is helping, at all.
I'm not convinced he could shake it off in the same way in the present time.He did, but it took a few time to finally put it away because the media (and Wright) were trying to make it stick. Man, it was annoying.
He did, but it took a few times to finally put it away because the media (and Wright) were trying to make it stick. Man, it was annoying.
I'm not convinced he could shake it off in the same way in the present time.
Social media is a hell of a drug.
I remember the Wright thing dominating several news cycles. Particularly galling to me because I agreed with Wright.
I'm not convinced he could shake it off in the same way in the present time.
Social media is a hell of a drug.
Who on his campaign is actually being "toxic" or vicious?
None of this hurts Sanders. The vast majority of voters don't pay attention to twitter drama. The ones who do are going to vote for Bernie anyway because "vote blue no matter who". Well, except KHive.
So, here's the thing...this narrative about poor behavior from Sander's supporters (some not all!) didn't just pop up out of thin air. The behavior of his delegates in 2016 at the convention was abhorrent. They literally heckled ELIJAH FUCKING CUMMINGS during his speech about civil rights. You had Susan Sarandon running around the convention trying to stir up shit anywhere and everywhere she could. (God knows she doesn't have acting gigs anymore.) The Sander's supporters behavior at the NV convention was abhorrent. There are posts after posts after posts of (mostly women tbh) on Twitter who dare post a critique of Bernie, and they get swarmed by that subset of incredibly online Bernie supporters. When Bernie launched his 2020 campaign, the narrative was already there so he started the entire cycle by saying "Don't do it!" But it continued to this day. When the WFP endorsed Warren over Bernie, the leadership was so violently attacked, along racial lines I might add, that they literally wrote the Bernie campaign and asked them to please do something about their supporters. When Ady endorsed Warren over Bernie, the vile that was directed at him was repugnant. Bernie had to step in then too.
Do I think all Bernie supporters are like this? Hell no. But the truth is there IS a vocal (very fucking vocal) minority of incredibly online Sanders people who do harass literally everyone who dares speak out against Bernie. This is, probably, in part because a lot of Sander's supporters are incredibly young. But, I do think part of it is the rhetoric that comes from the campaign. You have Sirota, you have his press secretary, you have Nina Turner...then you have the whole rhetoric of "EVERYONE IS AGAINST US" that constantly comes from the campaign itself. We are a handful of weeks removed from Bernie having to apologize for his surrogate calling Joe Biden corrupt. Again, these are not isolated incidents. There is a pattern of behavior.
There were reporters who spoke to voters in NH and tweeted about their interactions. More than one voter told folks they like Bernie, but they do not like the idea of being associated with his supporters. These incredibly online yelling people may think they're helping, but they're not. They're hurting him. Again, not al Sander's supporters are like this. Not even a plurality. But the only way to not be aware of, at the very least, the narrative is to just ignore everything that's happened in the last 5 years.
i will vote for Bernie, but it will be in spite of his campaign and some of his supporters. Not because of them.
So, here's the thing...this narrative about poor behavior from Sander's supporters (some not all!) didn't just pop up out of thin air. The behavior of his delegates in 2016 at the convention was abhorrent. They literally heckled ELIJAH FUCKING CUMMINGS during his speech about civil rights. You had Susan Sarandon running around the convention trying to stir up shit anywhere and everywhere she could. (God knows she doesn't have acting gigs anymore.) The Sander's supporters behavior at the NV convention was abhorrent. There are posts after posts after posts of (mostly women tbh) on Twitter who dare post a critique of Bernie, and they get swarmed by that subset of incredibly online Bernie supporters. When Bernie launched his 2020 campaign, the narrative was already there so he started the entire cycle by saying "Don't do it!" But it continued to this day. When the WFP endorsed Warren over Bernie, the leadership was so violently attacked, along racial lines I might add, that they literally wrote the Bernie campaign and asked them to please do something about their supporters. When Ady endorsed Warren over Bernie, the vile that was directed at him was repugnant. Bernie had to step in then too.
Do I think all Bernie supporters are like this? Hell no. But the truth is there IS a vocal (very fucking vocal) minority of incredibly online Sanders people who do harass literally everyone who dares speak out against Bernie. This is, probably, in part because a lot of Sander's supporters are incredibly young. But, I do think part of it is the rhetoric that comes from the campaign. You have Sirota, you have his press secretary, you have Nina Turner...then you have the whole rhetoric of "EVERYONE IS AGAINST US" that constantly comes from the campaign itself. We are a handful of weeks removed from Bernie having to apologize for his surrogate calling Joe Biden corrupt. Again, these are not isolated incidents. There is a pattern of behavior.
There were reporters who spoke to voters in NH and tweeted about their interactions. More than one voter told folks they like Bernie, but they do not like the idea of being associated with his supporters. These incredibly online yelling people may think they're helping, but they're not. They're hurting him. Again, not al Sander's supporters are like this. Not even a plurality. But the only way to not be aware of, at the very least, the narrative is to just ignore everything that's happened in the last 5 years.
i will vote for Bernie, but it will be in spite of his campaign and some of his supporters. Not because of them.
None of this hurts Sanders. The vast majority of voters don't pay attention to twitter drama.
She lives in NY. She can have a little protest vote, as a treat.
I'm not convinced he could shake it off in the same way in the present time.
Social media is a hell of a drug.
When you can make a speech that sounds like the spirit of MLK Jr. inhabited your voice, you can get away with a lot of stuff.
AgainNot as a national figure, before the election, publicly advertising that choice.
Until she apologizes for that, her credibility's less than zilch, and Bernie continues to be weighed down by putting his trust in her.
But Ocasio-Cortez is also realistic about how far even a President Sanders could actually move Congress.
"The worst-case scenario? We compromise deeply and we end up getting a public option. Is that a nightmare? I don't think so," she said.
Ocasio-Cortez stressed that just getting a public option for health care wasn't the left's ultimate goal. But she also said she wasn't here to railroad other members with differing viewpoints on health care ― she just thinks it helps to have a president who has a more ambitious platform than Congress so that Democrats could stretch what's possible.
So, here's the thing...this narrative about poor behavior from Sander's supporters (some not all!) didn't just pop up out of thin air. The behavior of his delegates in 2016 at the convention was abhorrent. They literally heckled ELIJAH FUCKING CUMMINGS during his speech about civil rights. You had Susan Sarandon running around the convention trying to stir up shit anywhere and everywhere she could. (God knows she doesn't have acting gigs anymore.) The Sander's supporters behavior at the NV convention was abhorrent. There are posts after posts after posts of (mostly women tbh) on Twitter who dare post a critique of Bernie, and they get swarmed by that subset of incredibly online Bernie supporters. When Bernie launched his 2020 campaign, the narrative was already there so he started the entire cycle by saying "Don't do it!" But it continued to this day. When the WFP endorsed Warren over Bernie, the leadership was so violently attacked, along racial lines I might add, that they literally wrote the Bernie campaign and asked them to please do something about their supporters. When Ady endorsed Warren over Bernie, the vile that was directed at him was repugnant. Bernie had to step in then too.
Do I think all Bernie supporters are like this? Hell no. But the truth is there IS a vocal (very fucking vocal) minority of incredibly online Sanders people who do harass literally everyone who dares speak out against Bernie. This is, probably, in part because a lot of Sander's supporters are incredibly young. But, I do think part of it is the rhetoric that comes from the campaign. You have Sirota, you have his press secretary, you have Nina Turner...then you have the whole rhetoric of "EVERYONE IS AGAINST US" that constantly comes from the campaign itself. We are a handful of weeks removed from Bernie having to apologize for his surrogate calling Joe Biden corrupt. Again, these are not isolated incidents. There is a pattern of behavior.
There were reporters who spoke to voters in NH and tweeted about their interactions. More than one voter told folks they like Bernie, but they do not like the idea of being associated with his supporters. These incredibly online yelling people may think they're helping, but they're not. They're hurting him. Again, not al Sander's supporters are like this. Not even a plurality. But the only way to not be aware of, at the very least, the narrative is to just ignore everything that's happened in the last 5 years.
i will vote for Bernie, but it will be in spite of his campaign and some of his supporters. Not because of them.
Some Sanders supporters and other progressives are upset because the platform committee, under pressure from the Obama administration, voted down a platform plank opposing the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). The disruptions came to a head when delegates started chanting, "No TPP!" over Cummings, who is the chair of the party platform drafting committee.
The Nevada State Democratic Party claimed to possess video footage of violent acts by Sanders supporters, yet did not release the footage. Lange also claimed to receive death threats and threats to the lives of her family, yet provided no evidence to substantiate her claims. Wikileaks later revealed that the DNC deliberately pushed the narrative of violent Sanders supporters in order to discredit the Sanders campaign.
To be fair, at least she voted before she was in her 40s.Because she represents Sanders campaign and what people do and say when they represent a campaign literally matters to people in terms of who they see the candidate hiring and surrounding themselves with.