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PMS341

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Oct 29, 2017
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I think that is a wild supposition that patently paints all people who ardently want Trump out of the office as Bloom supporters. I think there was a post that addressed this.

No, that isn't the implication here. I want Trump out of office, but I would never vote for Bloomberg. Voting for a racist is still exactly that - a vote for a racist. Bloomberg is documented heavily as such and has given zero indication of changing his ideals. If the choice is between those two in the general, you have the right to not participate in that process which will have been proven to be as undemocratic as possible if Bloomberg makes it there in the first place.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Could it be because those who back the other candidates are, in the end, okay with Bloomberg, who is nearly identical to Trump in every way? Not wanting to vote for a racist transphobe is a good thing that should be respected, not shamed.
See, that's totally 100% not fair, and literally what the mods asked not to happen here.
Perfect-Well-Done-Steak-683x1024.jpg
That steak is raw and needs ketchup.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Bloomberg is, in a certain way, way worse than Trump. He's actually competent and capable of doing way more actual damage.

This is a good point. People always talk about being worried about a "competent" Republican having the power that Trump does - Bloomberg is exactly that threat.

See, that's totally 100% not fair, and literally what the mods asked not to happen here.

Let me reiterate this clearly.

Voting for Bloomberg does not make you a racist. However, it shows support for someone who is a racist. This is as matter-of-fact as I can be. If it doesn't feel "fair", then maybe the support for Bloomberg should be reconsidered. He should not even be in this race and I would judge no one for sitting out of the GE if he becomes the nominee.
 

gaugebozo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,826

twitter.com

Ryan Knight 🌹 on Twitter

“Mike Bloomberg: “Black and latino males aged 16 to 25 don’t have jobs, don’t know how to find jobs...don’t know how to behave in the work place.” Centrists/Moderates: “I can’t believe Ryan Knight is saying he won’t support Bloomberg. He is so divisive.”https://t.co/p3LcG2aPYn”

It's Bloomberg oppo-oclock.

It sounds like he's making a point about a subset, not meaning that all people in that group are like that. The word "cohort" at the start, left out of the tweet, makes that clear. The context has also been stripped, and he dropped use of "that" which would make it clear he's talking specifically. Like the sentence before that could be, "We need to do more for the cohort of ..."

Does anyone know the context?
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
I mention that it's weird given Klobuchar's rise and Warren's fall. As a Warren supporter, it's just odd to see those results when every other poll and the recent primary result show her support weakening.

What could be the reason for the result?
I guess it's consistent with voters consistently liking Warren better than most of the candidates but not being many's first choice. I think the exit polls were saying Klobuchar did very well among people who decided in the last day/few days, presumably because of the debate. I guess Warren's supporters were like Bidens, relatively uncommitted people who liked her best but weren't very invested in the campaign. At the last moment some of them liked what Klobuchar had to say in the debate and decided to go with her even though they still like Warren.
Warren is literally every lane's second choice
I'm not sure this is quite true... for example this is what The Economist has at the moment on their model though I'm not sure exactly where their numbers are coming from.

ODDS9Tl.png


Wonder if anyone knows of a poll out there that's explicit about this.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Could it be because those who back the other candidates are, in the end, okay with Bloomberg, who is nearly identical to Trump in every way? Not wanting to vote for a racist transphobe is a good thing that should be respected, not shamed.

They were saying this before Bloomberg was even running. And they are they same people who were trying to paint Warren as basically a Republican.

Nice attempt to spin it, but they aren't saying "vote blue no matter almost who."

Your spinny reply is just more of the same, frankly.

The rest of my feed is full of people railing a giant Bloomberg without that kind of rhetoric.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I guess it's consistent with voters consistently liking Warren better than most of the candidates but not being many's first choice. I think the exit polls were saying Klobuchar did very well among people who decided in the last day/few days, presumably because of the debate. I guess Warren's supporters were like Bidens, relatively uncommitted people who liked her best but weren't very invested in the campaign. At the last moment some of them liked what Klobuchar had to say in the debate and decided to go with her even though they still like Warren.

I'm not sure this is quite true... for example this is what The Economist has at the moment on their model though I'm not sure exactly where their numbers are coming from.

ODDS9Tl.png


Wonder if anyone knows of a poll out there that's explicit about this.
I should have phrased what I meant better. Individually, she may not be each candidate's second choice, but in those matchups you can totally see how she's each "lanes" (if they exist?) 2nd choice.

If you are a Klob/Biden/Pete voter as a group, and you lose all three of those options, you're left with Warren or Bernie. Warren's an easier swallow for those folks. Likewise, if you're a Bernie supporter, and he is out of the race for whatever reason, and everyone other than one of Klob/Pete/Biden is out of the race, then Warren is your natural second choice.

What we know, empirically, about 2nd choice is all we know from Iowa. Basically, very few people actually went to Bernie in round two versus everyone else. Warren supporters tended to go Pete and Klob, which is the reciprocal of what I'm saying, to a degree. I genuinely think if we removed one of Biden, Pete or Amy this race would look drastically different. Pete would have won NH and iowa (by a larger margin). This divided field is really the main reason we're talking about Bernie as a favorite to win.


Is that really true? I'm terms of Iowa second choice realignment she only did a little better than Bernie, and a lot worse than Pete.
Like I said above, I should have said it was "2nd choice by lane." (insofar as lanes exist, I guess.) I should have explained better. Hopefully the next post I made made it a bit clearer.

Maybe I should have said Warren is the candidate most people would be second okay with.
 

PMS341

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Oct 29, 2017
6,634
They were saying this before Bloomberg was even running. And they are they same people who were trying to paint Warren as basically a Republican.

Nice attempt to spin it, but they aren't saying "vote blue no matter almost who."

Your spinny reply is just more of the same, frankly.

Spinny? I'm being completely genuine and don't need to speak between the lines. Warren is the second-most leftist candidate in the race right now, and a few people's Twitter posts can't change that.

The majority of Sanders supporters overwhelmingly voted for Clinton in 2016 and there is no doubt that the majority of those supporters would do the same for the nominee that isn't Sanders this time around, too. However, Bloomberg specifically is documented as a racist, transphobic, sexist, misogynistic billionaire Republican and I wouldn't blame a single soul for not casting their vote for him.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Spinny? I'm being completely genuine and don't need to speak between the lines. Warren is the second-most leftist candidate in the race right now, and a few people's Twitter posts can't change that.

The majority of Sanders supporters overwhelmingly voted for Clinton in 2016 and there is no doubt that the majority of those supporters would do the same for the nominee that isn't Sanders this time around, too. However, Bloomberg specifically is documented as a racist, transphobic, sexist, misogynistic billionaire Republican and I wouldn't blame a single soul for not casting their vote for him.

My initial post wasn't about most Sanders supporters, but the only people I see in my feed as "or Bust" people are Sanders supporters. There's a reason the meme persists. That was all I meant, but you tried to spin that into something like supporters of other candidates are ultimately OK with a racist.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
My initial post wasn't about most Sanders supporters, but the only people I see in my feed as "or Bust" people are Sanders supporters. There's a reason the meme persists. That was all I meant, but you tried to spin that into something like supporters of other candidates are ultimately OK with a racist.

The meme persisted in the first place because people still believe that Sanders cost Clinton the election in 2016, disregarding her terrible campaign entirely. Same reason that "Bernie Bros" and "Obama Boys" persisted, really.

Again, you keep using the word spin, but you don't seem to grasp what you're implying. Supporters of Bloomberg completely understand that casting their vote for him is casting a vote for someone who believes minorities should be thrown against walls. Ultimately, supporters of Bloomberg are OK with a racist because they are physically giving him support. Every American has the right to vote, or to not vote, and it is perfectly acceptable to not want to vote for Bloomberg, especially given that he will actively harm minority communities. Supporters of Buttigieg, Klob, Biden, etc. are not supporting anything close to what Bloomberg is. There is a substantial difference.

This is all based in What-Ifs? and hypotheticals anyways, and I don't even like to entertain the idea Bloomberg will come close to the nomination. If he does, our institutions have officially failed us.
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
I should have phrased what I meant better. Individually, she may not be each candidate's second choice, but in those matchups you can totally see how she's each "lanes" (if they exist?) 2nd choice.

If you are a Klob/Biden/Pete voter as a group, and you lose all three of those options, you're left with Warren or Bernie. Warren's an easier swallow for those folks. Likewise, if you're a Bernie supporter, and he is out of the race for whatever reason, and everyone other than one of Klob/Pete/Biden is out of the race, then Warren is your natural second choice.

What we know, empirically, about 2nd choice is all we know from Iowa. Basically, very few people actually went to Bernie in round two versus everyone else. Warren supporters tended to go Pete and Klob, which is the reciprocal of what I'm saying, to a degree. I genuinely think if we removed one of Biden, Pete or Amy this race would look drastically different. Pete would have won NH and iowa (by a larger margin). This divided field is really the main reason we're talking about Bernie as a favorite to win.



Like I said above, I should have said it was "2nd choice by lane." (insofar as lanes exist, I guess.) I should have explained better. Hopefully the next post I made made it a bit clearer.

Maybe I should have said Warren is the candidate most people would be second okay with.
I guess I don't really buy into this strict two lane race where it's Bernie/Warren/Steyer?/Yang? vs everyone else. I think the idea that people decide their candidate based on ideology is a bit overhyped, especially after I just saw Klobuchar apparently convert a big chunk of Warren's base in NH. And it's hard to imagine Buttigieg or Klobuchar picking up black support from Biden or Bloomberg were either of them to hypothetically drop out. The head to head polls posted earlier also make me question whether Sanders's ceiling isn't also just an assumption, like Trump's in 2016. Presumably everyone knows Bernie is farther left than the other candidates--you'd think they'd choose the moderate candidate in the head to head polls if it was such a big issue. I think there's a lot more factors at play here and everyone is focusing way too much on this one progressive vs moderate variable.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,814
What an embarrassing performance.



Exposed.

In a normal time this would be getting way more attention.

It's not like she was asked who the President of Luxembourg or Turkistan was. She was asked the President of our biggest trading partner directly on our southern border. Klob always seemed thin on foreign policy to me but this is ridiculous. And the fact that Buttigieg got it right just completely undermines all her attacks on him.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
My wife (social media/advertising person) says even the response was a bot, and they're doing A/B testing with the names they're using .... but having done phone banking, I still think the responder was real, especially because there was a change in capitalization / tone in the response. Unless Bloomberg has totally automated everything, which I guess would be in character.

Most text banking is real people.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Exposed.

In a normal time this would be getting way more attention.

It's not like she was asked who the President of Luxembourg or Turkistan was. She was asked the President of our biggest trading partner directly on our southern border. Klob always seemed thin on foreign policy to me but this is ridiculous. And the fact that Buttigieg got it right just completely undermines all her attacks on him.
It's fucking embarassing and makes me even sadder that pundits/media seemed to go full Klob devotion just because Warren started losing viability.
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,008
I'm becoming increasingly concerned for the democratic primary and eventual candidate in that they won't receive the full support of democratic votes in November. As someone who was much more politically apathetic until a few years ago, is my concern justified?
 

Deleted member 176

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Oct 25, 2017
37,160
I'm becoming increasingly concerned for the democratic primary and eventual candidate in that they won't receive the full support of democratic votes in November. As someone who was much more politically apathetic until a few years ago, is my concern justified?
Depends on the candidate. For example if Bloomberg wins I and many others won't vote for him.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I'm becoming increasingly concerned for the democratic primary and eventual candidate in that they won't receive the full support of democratic votes in November. As someone who was much more politically apathetic until a few years ago, is my concern justified?
For the most part? No. 2008 was way, way more grumpy than this. This is just mostly infighting stuff that will sort itself out. Bloomberg is the only potential hiccup, but he's not going to be the nominee so I wouldn't worry about it.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
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Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Cher honestly posts on Twitter exactly how I imagine Biden would if he posted from a personal account. I would follow a tweet thread about Cornpop.
 
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