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Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,202
New Jersey
Pete is an excellent politician and yeah would make a solid VP choice

Also i would think this would be a good place to start as far as who should actually go first in primaries:
XRayGaj.png
You'd still want to avoid states dominated by machine politics like Illinois and much of the blue mid Atlantic. Like NJ is super represenitive of the Democratic coalition nowadays, but you'd want it nowhere near the front.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
Remember about SC polls, they almost always underrepresent older black voters
I feel like when people say this (like with NV polls "always" being wrong) you're just setting yourself up for eventually being wrong.

Also it's likelier that the SC electorate will be whiter this year than 2016
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,843
North Carolina should 100% be first in the nation. The voting infra there is best in the country, the diversity is through the roof (you can't win by just targeting demos, you need a cross-cutting message), and you can bus tour around it just fine.

It has a great basketball, small business, and barbeque culture that you can build a really awesome retail politic backdrop around.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Also I think it's pretty clear now that Biden has been gaining as the non-Sanders candidate.
So, this is just my thought process I rambled out to my husband earlier....so it's more gut feeling than anything else.

I think, more so than anything, the "moderate" (or the Not-Bernie) wing is concerned with who can win in the General. They probably aren't huge fans of Bernie's policies, but I genuinely think for a lot of them it comes down to this sense (right or wrong) that Bernie is way out of touch and cannot win. Policy wise, there isn't a lick of difference between Pete, Amy, and Biden (honestly, Bloomberg is pretty close ideologically on some things to that side as well.)

I honestly think the reason for the fracture among the Dem Moderates is they have no idea who can actually win...because none of them really have. Even if Pete holds on in Iowa, it was a cluster fuck so he was denied an electability argument. Amy got a surge that collapsed when she simply overperformed instead of winning. IF IF IF Biden can get a definitive win in South Carolina, I think people are definitely going to start falling in line behind him.

IDK how that plays out going forward. I don't know if it's enough that Biden could actually get a plurality (let alone a majority). But honestly a definitive win for Biden in SC is Bernie's worst nightmare.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Actually, from a purely ideological standpoint, Pete is a perfect complement to Bernie's weaknesses. Bernie is not doing great with white, college educated suburbanites in the polling we're seeing so far. Pete kills it there. Pete also has moderate appeal, military experience, he's clearly not a crazy SOCIALIST COMMUNIST MARXIST. But, like, to say Pete brings NOTHING to a ticket really ignores why he's been so successful for a small town mayor. Like, it's fine to hate the guy, but this denial that anyone else actually likes him or he doesn't have assets some of the other guys/gals don't have is..it's just not right.

(And I don't particularly want an all white, all male ticket either, I'm just saying.)
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
So, this is just my thought process I rambled out to my husband earlier....so it's more gut feeling than anything else.

I think, more so than anything, the "moderate" (or the Not-Bernie) wing is concerned with who can win in the General. They probably aren't huge fans of Bernie's policies, but I genuinely think for a lot of them it comes down to this sense (right or wrong) that Bernie is way out of touch and cannot win. Policy wise, there isn't a lick of difference between Pete, Amy, and Biden (honestly, Bloomberg is pretty close ideologically on some things to that side as well.)

I honestly think the reason for the fracture among the Dem Moderates is they have no idea who can actually win...because none of them really have. Even if Pete holds on in Iowa, it was a cluster fuck so he was denied an electability argument. Amy got a surge that collapsed when she simply overperformed instead of winning. IF IF IF Biden can get a definitive win in South Carolina, I think people are definitely going to start falling in line behind him.

IDK how that plays out going forward. I don't know if it's enough that Biden could actually get a plurality (let alone a majority). But honestly a definitive win for Biden in SC is Bernie's worst nightmare.

This. But if your last line is reversed and Biden flops and Bernie dominates, it changes the dynamics entirely with possibly no majority for anyone, but Bernie having a very very clear plurality. I don't know what the "moderate" would take that as electability in the general though.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,622
*Biden picks Kamala Harris for his VP.

Big brained Twitter individual: "OMG she sucks! No charisma Copmala!"

*Bernie picks Kamala Harris for VP.

Galaxy brained individual: "Wow such an intellectual pick that covers Bernie's various weaknesses! I always knew she was VP material!"
 

Rag

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,874
Unfortunately I feel like a good chunk of Bernie fans hate her more than almost anyone else in the race.
To be fair, she is covered in scales, and doesn't have hands or feet. Combine that with her COMPLETELY abandoning M4A by showing the steps she'd take to transition to it and pay for it, and the fact that she used to be a Republican, and who can possibly blame them.
 

SolarPowered

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,211
Pete is an excellent politician and yeah would make a solid VP choice

Also i would think this would be a good place to start as far as who should actually go first in primaries:
XRayGaj.png
Way too many big, expensive states. We can keep the original first four, add Arizona, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Massachusetts and then rotate the pairs randomly every four years. We get reasonably sized populations, decent diversity, proximity to the current four and most importantly they become key states for Democrats politically going forward. We need to engage more with Wisconsin in order to hold it going into the future and continue to improve on the democratic party apparatus in NC/AZ, so we can eventually make them our next VA/CO/NV success stories. Massachusetts just shares the same media market as NH, but has more POC in it than there are people in all of New Hampshire, so it's a nice fit.
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
We did just see Pete kill it with a bunch of groups in the early states that Biden flatlined with. To say he brings nothing to the table for Biden is silly, even if it would be better to have a POC/woman/both on there.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
Aren't they trying to get her primaried 4 years before her term is up right now? I believe they are.
That did start trending and I'm sure it's mostly bots, but I'm even talking about before that. I've seen Bernie supporting people post about how much of a snake she is, etc. Just way more vitriol than anyone else.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,524
Yes excluding women from the ticket is sure to energize women voters
Who do you suggest? Warren is "too big" to take a step down from the Senate and be VP. Klobuchar has zero appeal to minorities just like Pete but isn't as famous. Stacey Abrams is a relative unknown.

I guess Kamala? But she's highly polarizing herself even amongst the left.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
So, this is just my thought process I rambled out to my husband earlier....so it's more gut feeling than anything else.

I think, more so than anything, the "moderate" (or the Not-Bernie) wing is concerned with who can win in the General. They probably aren't huge fans of Bernie's policies, but I genuinely think for a lot of them it comes down to this sense (right or wrong) that Bernie is way out of touch and cannot win. Policy wise, there isn't a lick of difference between Pete, Amy, and Biden (honestly, Bloomberg is pretty close ideologically on some things to that side as well.)

I honestly think the reason for the fracture among the Dem Moderates is they have no idea who can actually win...because none of them really have. Even if Pete holds on in Iowa, it was a cluster fuck so he was denied an electability argument. Amy got a surge that collapsed when she simply overperformed instead of winning. IF IF IF Biden can get a definitive win in South Carolina, I think people are definitely going to start falling in line behind him.

IDK how that plays out going forward. I don't know if it's enough that Biden could actually get a plurality (let alone a majority). But honestly a definitive win for Biden in SC is Bernie's worst nightmare.
Maybe but any momentum he gets could just get sapped a few days later. And so many of the ST states are early voting states with Biden presence that's it's unlikely he could capitalize on any momentum. And those other candidates aren't just vanishing between SC and ST
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Who do you suggest? Warren is "too big" to take a step down from the Senate and be VP. Klobuchar has zero appeal to minorities just like Pete but isn't as famous. Stacey Abrams is a relative unknown.

I guess Kamala? But she's highly polarizing herself even amongst the left.
Kamala, Gretchen Whitmer, Tammy Duckworth, Tammy Baldwin, Stacey Abrams, Catherine Cortez-Masto, etc.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
To be fair, she is covered in scales, and doesn't have hands or feet. Combine that with her COMPLETELY abandoning M4A by showing the steps she'd take to transition to it and pay for it, and the fact that she used to be a Republican, and who can possibly blame them.

🤔

That all sounds very true.
 

theprodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
685
Bots only really start a hashtag, for some reason Warren supporters really like to amplify those kind of hashtags by "dunking on it" or something, it's not even the first time.

I kind of wonder what South Carolina would look like if Bloomberg was actually running there?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
Honestly, I think this ticket would give us the best chance to win. Not due to the quality of these two, of course, but due to mass appeal. As others have said here, Bernie will be "hard mode."

I feel like I'm not sure about this. Conventional wisdom says this, but we're going through re-alignment and I'm genuinely not sure if Bernie would tap into demographics that put weird states in play where they otherwise wouldn't be.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
How come Vermont is so rigidly blue while neighboring New Hampshire has swing-y tendencies? Aren't they basically the same demographically?

Because VT is chill and NH is basically what happens when people watch Mad Max and use it as a "How To" for building society.

I kid, but Vermont and NH are very different. NH--even in the "urban centers"--is decidedly more wearing of establishment politics and prefers "outsiders". I saw Trump signs in NH as early as like, June 2015, well before he was even close to being a "realistic" choice. They also have a backed in level of disdain for Taxes, and Democrats generally represent a more fiscally responsible tax and spend style of politics that runs counter to that.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
You'd still want to avoid states dominated by machine politics like Illinois and much of the blue mid Atlantic. Like NJ is super represenitive of the Democratic coalition nowadays, but you'd want it nowhere near the front.

You also want to avoid overly expensive Media Markets. New Jersey and Illinois being early on would prevent underdogs from having a real chance, unless they were populists with strong grass roots backing like Bernie.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Kamala, Gretchen Whitmer, Tammy Duckworth, Tammy Baldwin, Stacey Abrams, Catherine Cortez-Masto, etc.
I think it should be Abrams, she's the best practical pick for both Biden and Sanders, the activist base loves her, and I assume she'd bring some focus on voter mobilization which I like a lot.

I understand the inclination towards Harris though, given her larger stature as a candidate. Abrams could probably get over it but I think she'd invite some unfortunate Palin comparisons and would have more to prove on that front.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Have to imagine Amy will be out after Super Tuesday and unfortunately Liz as well. Maybe even Pete if he doesn't come up with a couple of wins. Will have to see how those votes flow.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,365
I feel like Duckworth would do well in a higher office. I think Pete and Beto would also do well in Cabinet positions.

If Biden wound up somehow picking Warren for VP, I'd get behind that ticket.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,821

>
www.nytimes.com

‘He Hasn’t Been Here’: Why Joe Biden Lags in Super Tuesday States (Published 2020)

Joseph R. Biden Jr. is counting on a victory in South Carolina to revive his candidacy. But a daunting challenge awaits next week in states where he has limited resources.

Interviews with party leaders in half a dozen Super Tuesday states suggest that the same vulnerabilities that plagued Mr. Biden beginning in Iowa — subpar organization, limited outreach to local Democrats and a late start to campaigning — are holding him back in the states that next week will dole out a third of the total delegates in the Democratic primary.
Mr. Biden's on-the-ground operations, these Democrats said, are easily dwarfed by those of Mr. Sanders and Michael R. Bloomberg, the moderate former mayor of New York who has plainly cut into Mr. Biden's standing in some of these states even as he faces his own mounting challenges in the race.
"Arkansas was, in my opinion, going to be a default Biden state," said Michael John Gray, the chairman of the Democratic Party of Arkansas. "He hasn't been here. Of all the campaigns, the least organized in Arkansas is Biden."
Other candidates like Mr. Sanders, of Vermont, are already campaigning in Super Tuesday states, holding events that excite supporters and generate news media coverage. But Mr. Biden has planted himself elsewhere, after his fourth-place finish in Iowa and fifth-place New Hampshire result threw even his expected firewall of South Carolina into doubt.



 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Yes excluding women from the ticket is sure to energize women voters

While I want a (black) woman on the ticket, I don't think this is a good reason why. As a reminder, Trump (an admitted sex offender) won the white woman vote with Hillary (a woman) running. Obama also won women against McCain/Palin
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,202
New Jersey
Have to imagine Amy will be out after Super Tuesday and unfortunately Liz as well. Maybe even Pete if he doesn't come up with a couple of wins. Will have to see how those votes flow.
If Liz gets 2nd in Cali, she could come out with a decent amount of delegates and not have that much pressure to drop out either. I don't see Pete leaving after Super Tuesday.
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,843
1200.

Great day all considered.

Honestly, if what we're looking at is the economy grinding to a standstill for weeks or months (depending on how much it abates in the summer) due to quarantines and supply chains everywhere disrupted worldwide-this is a huge economic calamity and people should start expecting tremendous shocks and lots of temporary layoffs.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,656
>
www.nytimes.com

‘He Hasn’t Been Here’: Why Joe Biden Lags in Super Tuesday States (Published 2020)

Joseph R. Biden Jr. is counting on a victory in South Carolina to revive his candidacy. But a daunting challenge awaits next week in states where he has limited resources.

Interviews with party leaders in half a dozen Super Tuesday states suggest that the same vulnerabilities that plagued Mr. Biden beginning in Iowa — subpar organization, limited outreach to local Democrats and a late start to campaigning — are holding him back in the states that next week will dole out a third of the total delegates in the Democratic primary.
Mr. Biden's on-the-ground operations, these Democrats said, are easily dwarfed by those of Mr. Sanders and Michael R. Bloomberg, the moderate former mayor of New York who has plainly cut into Mr. Biden's standing in some of these states even as he faces his own mounting challenges in the race.
"Arkansas was, in my opinion, going to be a default Biden state," said Michael John Gray, the chairman of the Democratic Party of Arkansas. "He hasn't been here. Of all the campaigns, the least organized in Arkansas is Biden."
Other candidates like Mr. Sanders, of Vermont, are already campaigning in Super Tuesday states, holding events that excite supporters and generate news media coverage. But Mr. Biden has planted himself elsewhere, after his fourth-place finish in Iowa and fifth-place New Hampshire result threw even his expected firewall of South Carolina into doubt.




This right here is why Biden might be the worst GE candidate out of the entire field.

He doesn't know how to campaign and build a state infrastructure. He doesn't know how to excite people and drive them to the polls. He doesn't know how to raise funds. He's been coasting on name rec this entire time.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,524
Kamala, Gretchen Whitmer, Tammy Duckworth, Tammy Baldwin, Stacey Abrams, Catherine Cortez-Masto, etc.
I don't know. I still feel like our best bet is someone super well known nationally. Kamala apart, none of these people are well known outside of liberals who pay very close attention to politics.
 
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