US PoliEra 2020 |OT 3| "I think he's learned his lesson" says The Concerned Immoderate Darling Collins.
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2008 was the perfect fucking primary for me. I preferred Hillary, but I didn't dislike Obama. I didn't think he would be a bad president. I just liked Hillary more. There was no animosity when he won because he won fair and square. Hillary worked her ass off to unify the party, and there was never a moment where I was like "Obama won so I'm not voting." And, this may shock no one, but I was in the fucking paint for Hillary. I worked for the campaign. I did everything I could, even when I knew it was over, because I wanted to supporter her and Obama didn't need my help.
And, this may not be popular, but I genuinely think people are fed up with one thing: and that's Trump. Most things in people's day to day lives, even major events, don't really elicit this BURN IT DOWN mentality. The reason people are fed up with Trump, and I really believe this, is they are tired of the drama. They're tired of the embarrassment. They're tired about hearing about the shit he does, not what he actually does. They're literally just exhausted with this whole thing. And, while I certainly understand a subset of folks of all walks of life wanting this revolution...I don't think it's coming. Because, like it or not, most people are totally apathetic to things that don't affect their own personal lives. People are good at sympathy, they're bad at empathy. And, I mean no disrespect, but Bernie cannot sell empathy. He sells anger.
Ironically I think the Declaration of Independence said it best.... and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
And, this may not be popular, but I genuinely think people are fed up with one thing: and that's Trump. Most things in people's day to day lives, even major events, don't really elicit this BURN IT DOWN mentality. The reason people are fed up with Trump, and I really believe this, is they are tired of the drama. They're tired of the embarrassment. They're tired about hearing about the shit he does, not what he actually does. They're literally just exhausted with this whole thing. And, while I certainly understand a subset of folks of all walks of life wanting this revolution...I don't think it's coming. Because, like it or not, most people are totally apathetic to things that don't affect their own personal lives. People are good at sympathy, they're bad at empathy. And, I mean no disrespect, but Bernie cannot sell empathy. He sells anger.
Ironically I think the Declaration of Independence said it best.... and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
The 2008 was just the right level of exciting, tense, and dramatic. I'm not sure there will ever be another quite like it, where basically the entire voter base liked both candidates and it was down to really specific quirks or outright feels for a lot of people on choice of candidate. History was going to be made either way, and it was abundantly clear by spring 2008 already that the dem nominee was almost a lock for the presidency. Neither was particularly divisive and I can't recall any toxicity beyond friendly jeering even though campaigning got extremely heated. The debating was legendary. When are you ever going to see 2 charismatic intellectuals duke it out on policy in a GOP debate? Hah.
Hillary even went onto the convention floor herself to personally release her delegates in the end, and Obama was a bro offering her SoS.
Hillary even went onto the convention floor herself to personally release her delegates in the end, and Obama was a bro offering her SoS.
This is the complete truth. Talk about how centrist you think Obama was but his voters saw him as a progressive avatar for hope and change. Period.
It's actually crazy how much more issues focused politics has become since then.
Lmao. I wouldn't call this friendly jeering.
I wonder what would happen in 2020 if a man told a woman "I can't tell who i'm running against" about the woman candidate's husband. And then the white candidate tells the black candidate that he was friends with drug slum lords in south side Chicago.
This all seems more personal and far worse than anything Warren has said to cause all of Bernie Twitter to meltdown for the past month.
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This is a good thing as voters now want to know who's funding the candidates and how serious they are when they put on a progressive facade.
It's no longer enough to just be a smooth talker, otherwise Buttigieg would be the runaway winner.
That isn’t a fair criticism of what Obama said. He wasn’t just running against a woman. He was running against a woman married to a former president who at that point hadn’t even been out of office for 8 years. Bill was just as visible as Hillary and he was out there offering up what sounded like his own policy plans on the campaign trail that often contradicted Hillary’s.
2008 was a lot more racially tinged than Clinton supporters let on. My canvas group was trolled in Pennsylvania, and Clinton campaigned like she was the Great White Hope past any mathematical hope in places like Kentucky, all while trying to get full delegates from Florida's illegitimate primary.
We were all lucky that it came together so perfectly before the convention, because the blogosphere was on fire.
We were all lucky that it came together so perfectly before the convention, because the blogosphere was on fire.
what? Minnesota is one of the highest educated states. And Minneapolis heavily offsets the rural communities and is growing due to influx of transplants.
Minnesota Ranks 8th In Most-Educated States
In general, the more schooling a person gets, the greater the chances of getting a high-paying job, WalletHub analysis says.
patch.com
So many people forget that this happened. It’s like it was whitewashed (parson the pun) away. It’s one of the reasons I give credit to Obama with how he built his coalition. He knew he had to win those assholes over those he bit his tongue and did it.
I guess arguing over the 2008 primaries is better than arguing over the 2016 primaries. I wonder how long people will argue over the 2020 primaries for?
Whatever the GOP does now is hardly called governing. It's kicking down all checks and balances to prepare for minority rule, especially through the court system. In any decent first world country Trump would not have lasted two months and I don't know what particular processes would kick in, but I can't imagine McConnell would have been allowed to get away with half the shit he does.
I meant WI isn't particularly highly educated. It's been mentioned in the last couple of pages iirc. Only Minnesota has a longer blue streak than Wisconsin. Wisconsin definitely has a lot of people who want it to be a blue state. I look at Minnesota's stats regarding votes and education and I get a little jeajous as a New Yorker lol. Wisconsin is probably going to be far more friendly territory for democrats than Ohio in the future.what? Minnesota is one of the highest educated states. And Minneapolis heavily offsets the rural communities and is growing due to influx of transplants.
Minnesota is an anomaly Of the the Midwest and will stay blue.Minnesota Ranks 8th In Most-Educated States
In general, the more schooling a person gets, the greater the chances of getting a high-paying job, WalletHub analysis says.
Maybe in a less crowded session there might be time to hash out M4A, but 2020 is going to be a doozy. Voting/electoral reform, addition of new states, gun legislation, gigatons of executive reform, rebuilding the intelligence apparatus, rebuilding departments related to sciences, immigration reform, trying to obtain universal healthcare, rebuilding the state department, probably replacing a justice, killing the filibuster, etc. That is only the domestic stuff. I don't even want to think of the overseas stuff and the epic apology tour our next president will have to do.
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Peter Baker on Twitter
“Biden regains traction in Virginia, a Super Tuesday state, per @WasonCenter poll. Biden: 22% Sanders: 17% Bloomberg: 13% Buttigieg: 8% Warren: 8% Klobuchar: 5% Steyer: 1% @aolivo https://t.co/FJAyZ8vpb8”
twitter.com
Bloomberg still eating the shit out of a chunk of Biden's support though it looks like, with Bloom blunting Biden's margins in some of these better states for him it's going to hurt hard if Bernie holds those huge leads in CA.
Peter Baker on Twitter
“Biden regains traction in Virginia, a Super Tuesday state, per @WasonCenter poll. Biden: 22% Sanders: 17% Bloomberg: 13% Buttigieg: 8% Warren: 8% Klobuchar: 5% Steyer: 1% @aolivo https://t.co/FJAyZ8vpb8”
It’s going to go as well as Obama’s Iraq pullout did, but I suppose the eventual complete domination of Afghanistan by the Taliban would prevent the formation of an ISIS equivalent.
That said, at least it’s some sort of development there. I just feel for the everyday Afghans that’ll suffer once the fundamentalists are back in.
It won’t matter if we see outbreaks of Corona after Trump is pushing it’s ahoax narrative.
I agree. Which is why I think bringing troops home will be pretty powerful. They don’t care what happens in Afghanistan afterwards.
Honestly, there was never a way out without the Taliban. Another reason we shouldn’t have been in to begin with!
Especially if the opponent is Bernie, as they’ll basically neutralize each other on interventionism. Who knows, just spitballing.
If a Democratic president did this Afghanistan deal we would get crushed with narratives about how we are surrendering, looking weak, letting the Taliban win, etc.
But because a Republican did it, it will help them in November.
(Not commenting on substance of deal, just the politics)
But because a Republican did it, it will help them in November.
(Not commenting on substance of deal, just the politics)
Man, this interview Bill Maher did last night sure is something. Did anyone else see it?
youtu.be
Starts off fine-ish and then ventures into old man, sketchy racist ramblings and then there's some clearly odd/biased Bernie questioning. Singling him out as more susceptible to COVID-19 just because he's had a heart attack and is in crowds. Like everyone who campaigns isn't doing that as well...? Talk about fear mongering and panic stoking out of thin air. Jesus. So fucking irresponsible and not what anyone needs right now.
Why the hell do people like this have a show?
Dr. Anne Rimoin: Going Viral | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
Subscribe to the Real Time YouTube: http://itsh.bo/10r5A1B Field epidemiologist and UCLA professor Anne Rimoin joins Bill to discuss the public health threat...
youtu.be
Starts off fine-ish and then ventures into old man, sketchy racist ramblings and then there's some clearly odd/biased Bernie questioning. Singling him out as more susceptible to COVID-19 just because he's had a heart attack and is in crowds. Like everyone who campaigns isn't doing that as well...? Talk about fear mongering and panic stoking out of thin air. Jesus. So fucking irresponsible and not what anyone needs right now.
Why the hell do people like this have a show?
There’s a case study for this: it’s called 1972. McGovern’s whole strategy was predicated on turning out a huge new youth vote which never materialized (the youth vote in 72 ended up voting more than 50% for Nixon). He was seen as too liberal (he proposed essentially UBI through the tax code) and also had shaky personnel choices.
I think Bernie would make it a lot closer than those blowout margins, of course, especially if/when a recession begins, but it’s extremely risky and could have disastrous downballot effects with rural/suburban dems needing to either defend democratic socialism to conservative voters or distance themselves from the candidate at the top of the ticket.
This peace thing will be forgotten, but man did the Iraq War horseshit mess up alot of stuff for decades.
Now, it's all they know. Cartago Delenda Est.
Its their only play, then they fell in letting the Dirty Tricksters run the show, giving the grunting Southern Strategy people the opportunity to be the acid test of policy, and those all-too-friendly foreign folks with their "no strings attached" cash and data services.
Now, it's all they know. Cartago Delenda Est.
Just waiting for the first Heritage foundation study about the hospital closures that would occur with M4A. It’s like a minefield.
I haven’t watched the interview, and I think Maher sucks, but I’m quite worried about my parents because of their age and co-morbidities (like high blood pressure and diabetes). And they’re retired and younger than Bernie! If my dad was 80, had a heart history, and had an intensely stressful job that put him in direct contact with tens of thousands of people and big crowds, I’d be scared shitless. Male, 80+, heart history + stressful work + crowds is exactly the kind of scenario and demographic that the virus hits hardest. This virus is killing stressed, overworked doctors in their 20s and 30s, after all. And I worry about Biden, too, because cancer survivors are also at higher risk. I am also pretty worried about RBG, as a cancer survivor in her 80s.Man, this interview Bill Maher did last night sure is something. Did anyone else see it?
Dr. Anne Rimoin: Going Viral | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
Subscribe to the Real Time YouTube: http://itsh.bo/10r5A1B Field epidemiologist and UCLA professor Anne Rimoin joins Bill to discuss the public health threat...
Starts off fine-ish and then ventures into old man, sketchy racist ramblings and then there's some clearly odd/biased Bernie questioning. Singling him out as more susceptible to COVID-19 just because he's had a heart attack and is in crowds. Like everyone who campaigns isn't doing that as well...? Talk about fear mongering and panic stoking out of thin air. Jesus. So fucking irresponsible and not what anyone needs right now.
Why the hell do people like this have a show?
I don’t know how you can talk about any of this without being accused of fearmongering, but I think the concern is legitimate and justified.
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They do if we ultimately "lost" by giving in to the Taliban. Freeing prisoners, no UN sanctions and funding them to govern in an islamic republic, even though realistically one of the ways out, is essentially saying the Taliban was right all along and we "wasted" American soldier lives and truckloads of money.
I fast forwarded through parts of that interview because it didn't look very informative. I did see the Bernie bit and it was totally fair. The fact is, of all the candidates he is the most at risk. It's irresponsible of you to imply that Mayor Pete or Amy etc. have the same risk level.Man, this interview Bill Maher did last night sure is something. Did anyone else see it?
Dr. Anne Rimoin: Going Viral | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
Subscribe to the Real Time YouTube: http://itsh.bo/10r5A1B Field epidemiologist and UCLA professor Anne Rimoin joins Bill to discuss the public health threat...
Starts off fine-ish and then ventures into old man, sketchy racist ramblings and then there's some clearly odd/biased Bernie questioning. Singling him out as more susceptible to COVID-19 just because he's had a heart attack and is in crowds. Like everyone who campaigns isn't doing that as well...? Talk about fear mongering and panic stoking out of thin air. Jesus. So fucking irresponsible and not what anyone needs right now.
Why the hell do people like this have a show?
Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer
Age, sex, demographic characteristics such as pre-existing conditions, of coronavirus cases of patients infected with COVID-19 and deaths, as observed in studies on the virus outbreak originating from Wuhan, China
The Sanders strategy sure paid dividends in the UK.
I remember the media lambasting Trump for weeks after he turned tail and ran in Syria though?
Which is now a complete disaster which was entirely foreseeable, thanks to Erdogan and Trump
Influx of “illegal immigrants” taking our overworked nurses with their free healthcare.
“Final decision rests with POTUS”: Newly Released Defense Department Emails Show Esper, Pompeo and Bolton Thought Ukraine Aid Should Have Continued - American Oversight
The email appears to contradict the White House budget office’s stated rationale for withholding the aid.
www.americanoversight.org
Lol this "everyone just got along and liked each other" take is like an entire different world than my perception of 2008.
The Trump/Taliban peace thing is going to get buried in about 10 minutes. Coronavirus is too big a thing right now. The Dow crashing is too big a thing right now. It doesn't have enough pizzaz to divert attention from the other horrible shit going on right now, in my opinion. The killing of Soleimani was last month. I don't see it doing anything. It''s not even the lead story on MSNBC or CNN's site.
H.W. was the only recent prez to successfully start and win two wars
and he couldn’t win a second term lmao
I think it was pointed out in the primary thread, but this poll was in the field from February 3-23. So the day of the Iowa caucuses to the day after the Nevada caucus. Not gonna put a ton of stock in it personally.
Peter Baker on Twitter
“Biden regains traction in Virginia, a Super Tuesday state, per @WasonCenter poll. Biden: 22% Sanders: 17% Bloomberg: 13% Buttigieg: 8% Warren: 8% Klobuchar: 5% Steyer: 1% @aolivo https://t.co/FJAyZ8vpb8”
Yeah admittedly I wasn’t nearly as fully in tune with the primary as I am now but I definitely don’t remember it in all the peace and sunshine sort of way some do.
Thought this was new one. Didn't realize Watson Center was part of CNU.
You're 100% correct though.
CNN did an interview with two brothers who were part of the Castro Reading Brigade thing. And they talked about how as 12 and 14 year olds they were teaching older folks to read. Then, at the end of the interview, the one brother was like this Bernie guy shouldn't have said that, and I doubt he has a future in American politics. And you gotta respect the fact that some random Cuban man has a better grasp of the American electorate than Bernie Sanders. lol
Honestly, we should just turn that into an ad and run it constantly. Just dumb pictures of Trump's dumb face and hair with someone going HE'S AN IDIOT.
*Extremely Adam Schiff Voice*
“Final decision rests with POTUS”: Newly Released Defense Department Emails Show Esper, Pompeo and Bolton Thought Ukraine Aid Should Have Continued - American Oversight
The email appears to contradict the White House budget office’s stated rationale for withholding the aid.
Everyone
was in the loop
He had the gall to finish wars, assist in the reunification of Germany and raise taxes
He clearly deserved to lose
He also puked on the Prime Minister of Japan!
No one ever talks about that.
Texas 2020 early voting turnout surges
Experts say the blockbuster turnout is yet another sign of the growing competitiveness of...
Take it with a grain of salt since there isn't a contested primary in the Republican side, but I'm pretty sure the gap is much closer than it has been in the past few elections.
Lest you think otherwise I’m sure everyone thinks he ranks under like every Democrat in recent memory including Carter.
Didn’t he destroy some diaries/memos on Iran Contra and then pretend nothing happened? Amazing nobody even tried to impeach.
...I didn’t even know about this
I mean. I'd argue you can't be good at wars post WW2. If the objective had been to pulverize Afghanistan then it wouldn't have been an issue. Post WW2 wars have attempted to be against regimes and not the citizenry of the country. Had we treated Baghdad like Dresden or Hiroshima we may have "won".
Indeed, wars against non-state actors are very difficult to win without having a base in the country to build goodwill off of (and that assumes the country isn't riven by ethnic factions that put hard barriers on your ability to build pro-government coalitions), or without committing massive war crimes. Look at what it's taken for Syria to win back control of the country, for instance.
A good example, even Putin's Russia basically had to concede in Chechnya. They won "peace" by giving total control to a local strongman who's nominally loyal to Moscow, and that was with them being willing to do much more horrible things than we have been in the wars on terror.
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