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US PoliEra 2020 |OT 3| "I think he's learned his lesson" says The Concerned Immoderate Darling Collins.
- Thread starter TheHunter
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None of this is actually a response to what I wrote. You read what you wanted to read, certainly.
when I said you all need to chill, I meant it.
But logically, just getting to the Romney level of values, would allow them to be competitive as there would be Democrats that don't want to be in Bernie's Green Party, but are alienated by the Republican Party positions on social issues. The extremists don't really have another choice but to get on board.
Just seems to make sense that they'd not want to abandon any hope of winning office going forward and Bernie is the best office is the best way for them to get away from the Trumpish side.
Considering the MAGA base is huge and Trump will likely still be alive (unfortunately), the chances of them moderating is at 0.
McCain and Jeb refused GWB help and the party quickly disowned him. Going further MAGA does not really help them unless they're content with being the minority party going forward.
I'm trying to look at the glass half full with Bernie.
I don't mean this to be snobby, but are you new to this? You're right in a stone cold logic way, but that isn't what feeds the Republican beast. After the 2012 postmortem the party identified a moderate track as the roadmap to the future. But the base and the leadership rejected this wonky thinking. They live off of hate to sustain the base. They're too far in now to course correct without sending their body politic into shock. If they did pull a 180 it would destroy their chances for a generation as they sacrifice one base for another. Furthermore, the bigoted base won't relent at this point. If the party did a 180, these bigots would spin off into their own party and split the vote. We can't put this genie back in the bottle.
2020 who knows what the voting public will do but the loss of moderates, the fall of the suburbs to Democrats speaks to a more narrow party. We'll see if Bernie propels them back to trump (or non-voting) (ugh) but im gonna wager no.
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They can and they will.
Open Nazi fascism is right around the corner.
sucks for him delegates are only awarded for the caucus
this is the end of Trump's campaign for the Democratic nomination.
Yeah. How DARE the DNC invite Bloomberg on stage so that Warren could rip the spine out of his body on Live TV and cause his favorables to drop 30 points with MODERATE Democrats. OBVIOUSLY, they should have left him off the stage so that Bloomberg could shield himself with his ads, which have been tricking voters into thinking he was endorsed by Obama, keep his favorables higher and get a bunch of delegates on Super Tuesday.
What was the DNC thinking?!?!?!?!
If anyone is dumb enough to unironically say anything like this, throw them into the sun. Even I'm not this stupid, and that's saying a lot.
Eh, not new. Jaded, but not new. Fresh faced college freshman Chaos Legion was a member of both Obama 2008 and College Republicans. I had sat in on many conversations during my time with College Republicans when they had taken stock of the McCain defeat and looked at the path forward relied on more outreach and essentially moderating the platform. Then the Tea Party craziness happened beginning in 2009.
My initial query was based on a THR article I was just reading about Hollywood and Bloomberg. Seemed like it made sense that if Bernie is to beat Trump, it marks an opportunity for the Republican Party to reinvent itself using that loss as the cause. And moderating a little bit to just 2012 levels, would allow them to expand their base and remain competitive. But they very well could become more extreme. But I don't see how that won't cost them relevancy for years.
Well, he's right, but he kinda needs to explain what that might imply if he thinks it means anything. And what does it mean? Unless I'm getting paid to explain, I sure as hell don't know. And even in that case I'd probably be wrong. If he wants to say outright "THAT MEANS BERNIE IS BAD" then just fucking say it, god.
I'm sure at least 4 of the 8 people in the crowd agreed. (Sorry Joe, your crowds suck, even if it isn't what loses you the primary)
Haha you should be proud you didn't even need to incite a Bernie fight this time! Anyway, I read all this as well. I like the fights because I'm never in them but can still nod or scoff or laugh from friendly confines.
There's new depths that are possible.
I doubt they can win if they get even more racist, though. I think they've hit the peak tolerable amount for pubs in this century.
Honestly my blood froze a bit at the end of the Nevada debate when every candidate except Bernie refused to say that the nominee with the most delegates should get the nomination if a proper majority isn't reached at the end of the primary. That told me a lot about how desperate a lot of these candidates potentially are right now.
I expected Bloomberg to say he'd be cool with that and I understand that that method is probably Warren and Biden's best bet at nabbing the nomination if they aren't able to bounce back and properly compete with Bernie after Super Tuesday... but seeing Warren in particular try to talk around that shit really haunted me, considering her previous comments and calls to remove the Electoral College.
I completely understand the frustrations in here over Bernie reverting away from his recent calls for unity and challenging the DNC again, but in light of recent events and that particular moment in the debate, I can't entirely blame him either. Speaking as someone who believes that Warren would likely be the most effective President of the various candidates and the arguments for why it might be smarter to vote for a more moderate candidate, that uniform refusal to differ to the will of the voters is haunting in its implications.
Do I expect something like that to actually happen this summer? No. But that sort of tactic shouldn't be discussed or even attempt to validate it right now. It feels like a betrayal of what the Democratic Party has been calling out against for the past several years.
I am not in danger, Bernie, I am the danger. Someone flips a coin to break a tie at the caucus and you think that of me? I am the one who rigs!
Honestly Russia probably doesn't want Biden to get the nomination. He's probably right. Dude is so boring they have to make up oppo against him.
DNC rules are rules. Everyone agreed to them when they started their campaigns. Don't have a majority? Work a deal out, no one wants chaos and rioting.
I get that the left in the party is awkwardly domiciled with the moderates and establishment Dems. But all we can do is try to get the rules right and stick with them so everything is fair.
I get that the left in the party is awkwardly domiciled with the moderates and establishment Dems. But all we can do is try to get the rules right and stick with them so everything is fair.
Being gross isn't going to cut it. Burisma was a thing for a reason.
Even with those arbitrary restrictions, it really isn't that hard to oppo Biden.
Most charitable interpretation is they're all pros and you don't concede anything in case there is a contested convention and you need to negotiate. I think this apply to most of them.
Most uncharitable interpretation is they're all hungry and you saw the mask slip. I think this applies to some of them.
Biden supported the Iraq War, supported NAFTA and the TPP, was on tape calling for social security and Medicare cuts. Trump would crush him in the Rust Belt on this.
Bernie wouldn't agree to that in 2016. You can't make that sort of promise without knowing how the delegates are actually playing out.
Yeah it's a negotiation. They probably know, like Bernie did in 2016, they won't be nominated but you can extract concessions.
It just bugs me how disingenuous the whole anti-establishment fervor is on the left. Like, if Bernie were to win and accomplish even half of his policy goals, 90%+ of the Democratic party would be overjoyed. The reason many of us oppose him isn't because we're scared of what he might do as President, it's because we fear he either won't beat Trump or won't deliver Congress.
So yeah, it's annoying to be characterized as some kind of establishment schill for legitimate concerns about Bernie's electability or ability to govern. The idea that we're a bunch of elites scared that Bernie is coming after our wealth and power is just absurd.
So yeah, it's annoying to be characterized as some kind of establishment schill for legitimate concerns about Bernie's electability or ability to govern. The idea that we're a bunch of elites scared that Bernie is coming after our wealth and power is just absurd.
Not sure why your blood would freeze over something like that. The only reason bernie did what he did is because he's in the lead. This is the same guy that wanted one in 2016. Everyone on that stage was looking out for their own interest with that question.
There's extra irony in Sanders getting the mechanism for crowning a plurality leader without a fuss nerfed hard (Super Delegates).
Instead of the institutional power of sitting congressmen, senators, and governors, the power to pick a winner may rest in the leader's competitors.
That's fair. You're not wrong about Bernie. However, as far as I can remember, Bernie's desire for such a scenario in 2016 was always unrealistic and felt like a joke at the time (though naturally one can argue whether or not it hurt Hillary in the general).
Here, the scenario is absolutely a real possibility. I don't think I've seen anyone here argue otherwise and we've all discussed possible outcomes if such a situation were to occur this year. And we know for sure that Bloomberg's plan in particular hinges on this happening and at this point, it feels like the most likely way for most other candidates running still to land the nomination too.
To me, it's just rather frightening how we're even in a situation where we're talking about how our votes just might not even matter at all in the primary because of various candidates' personal interests.
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