US PoliEra 2020 |OT4| Disaster Voltron

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Y2Kev

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Oct 25, 2017
8,073
Pick Butti!
I feel like this thread is existing in another dimension. I haven’t seen or heard anyone talk about this Biden stuff not on the internet. He isn’t going to step down, it’s kinda weird to see people saying here he has to or they expect that in any way.
I think wrong thread. This thread is on that wavelength generally speaking.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,999
I feel like only Cuomo could somehow just take all of Biden’s delegates and worm his way into the nomination and get away with it. Political fuckery is his specialty
It's like... it'd be political genius given the moment and the spotlight he's had. But, it's fucking Cuomo. On the one hand I could see that sequence of events leading to a massive electoral blowout, on the other hand....

it's fucking Cuomo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,193
Keith Ellison was accused of sexual assault I think a year ago by his ex-wife, and then that just didn't go anywhere. But if I remember right, some of the details in that case were weird, like she changed her story later or something.
She (ex-wife? Girlfriend?) changed her story, then wouldn't release the video that she said showed him beating her for changing reasons or show it privately to prosecutors or lawyers, and then none of the witnesses to her story (her and her kids, IIRC) would go on record with the allegations either.

She certainly made it seem like she was doing a whole break-up revenge claim thing whether or not that was the case, which is why it didn't go anywhere. Ellison also straight up denied it and called for an investigation himself, IIRC. That would be Biden's play, I think.

LGHT_TRSN said that they don't know if we have evidence that denial works on a national level, which is fair...but I think we have insight into how the general voting public treats these claims, tbh. Republicans took it as a chance to spread lies about a picture of a bruised woman being Ellison's girlfriend, and Dems just sort of ignored that shit altogether.

This is why investigations are good. Let whatever comes to light come to light, but recognize that if nothing comes to light, no one will care (and even if stuff does come to light, like with Ford, it still might not be enough to do anything but enrage Biden's supporters and motivate them to support him more strongly).

I feel like this thread is existing in another dimension. I haven’t seen or heard anyone talk about this Biden stuff not on the internet. He isn’t going to step down, it’s kinda weird to see people saying here he has to or they expect that in any way.
You are right. It does. Era is a niche of a niche of the voting populace. That's not a judgmental observation. It just is what it is.

It's one of the places that I post because I like to get an idea of what all the different subgroups of the party that I vote for are thinking, but it's not representative of anything.
 
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Vena

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
2,477
I think she mentioned Yang as well. So I'm wondering if those who have dropped out and endorsed Biden were aware of this and still endorsed him.
I just don't understand how something like this doesn't explode from these campaigns. Yang endorsing with this information and not doing oppo on it, would just be such a disgrace. Hell, knowing this and endorsing regardless is just wrong.

Warren at least hasn't endorsed anyone but I still find it hard to square her actions with Bloomberg and being a very good paragon for women in politics and women in general, to not do oppo on this if this info was provided to her and her campaign. She has no love for Biden, that is very well known.
 

LGHT_TRSN

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Oct 25, 2017
3,875
If Bernie's performance in FL and other southern states are an indication, he clearly has a problem with older voters. They may have a problem with Trump, but would they bother to vote for Bernie? If he loses a good chunk of them in a GE, he's done. Sanders would have to overperform greatly with younger voters to have a chance at that point.
Absolutely...that is the risk. If we lose a good chunk of older voters we'll never make up for those losses with younger voters.

What we don't know is whether the massive losses we've seen between Bernie/Biden with older voters would result in losses in that same group between Trump/Bernie in the GE. Either way it's a gamble.
 

Kemal86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
431
It's like... it'd be political genius given the moment and the spotlight he's had. But, it's fucking Cuomo. On the one hand I could see that sequence of events leading to a massive electoral blowout, on the other hand....

it's fucking Cuomo.
In the alternate reality where this happens, the thread title must be “...its fucking Cuomo”
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,280
I mean, Bernie getting the nomination this way ends everything. If Biden steps down, it’d have to be someone who didn’t run who takes the nom. Otherwise, a large portion of voters will just assume Bernie stole the nomination.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,276
I trust that Obama's team did extensive vetting on Biden in 2008. I also don't believe Biden (pre-2008) was competent or powerful or rich enough to be a serial sexual predator. If more people come forward and that's the case, I'll be surprised and very disappointed/disgusted.
This is where my head is at right now. Obama 08 ran a tight ship, it would be incredible to think that they could miss something like this. And Joe has never struck me as teflon, he dropped out of the race in 88 over plagiarism for crying out loud.

If this turns out to be true then all bets are off, but I'm waiting to see how it develops. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,212
I mean, Bernie getting the nomination this way ends everything. If Biden steps down, it’d have to be someone who didn’t run who takes the nom. Otherwise, a large portion of voters will just assume Bernie stole the nomination.
If Biden steps down and anyone but Bernie gets the nom, there will be a very forceful narrative among a chunk of people that he was robbed by the establishment, though. There's no clean answer here that won't make some group feel like their voices aren't being heard.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,875
I mean, Bernie getting the nomination this way ends everything. If Biden steps down, it’d have to be someone who didn’t run who takes the nom. Otherwise, a large portion of voters will just assume Bernie stole the nomination.
Wouldn't more people feel this way if we just give the nom to someone who hasn't won any primary?
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,838
Let’s just have Britney run around the planet and rewind time like in Superman and go back to before Super Tuesday
 

XenodudeX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
943
Jacksonville, Florida
I just don't understand how something like this doesn't explode from these campaigns. Yang endorsing with this information and not doing oppo on it, would just be such a disgrace. Hell, knowing this and endorsing regardless is just wrong.

Warren at least hasn't endorsed anyone but I still find it hard to square her actions with Bloomberg and being a very good paragon for women in politics and women in general, to not do oppo on this if this info was provided to her and her campaign. She has no love for Biden, that is very well known.
Warren could very be waiting for it to.blow up. Maybe use the opportunity to call on biden to drop out?
 

Vixdean

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,854
User Banned (Duration Pending): Dismissing Allegations of Sexual Assault; Prior Infractions Related to Sexism
Yeah, this Biden story so far seems to be living exclusively in low rent conservative media, not even Fox or OANN have run with it yet. Makes me think it's already been investigated and no corroborating evidence could be found. If Biden did this, used his aides to create a situation where he would be alone with this woman to assault her, it wasn't the first or last time. That's not some rookie move, it's something you've done before and know you could get away with, and there would be other accusers.
 

plagiarize

Don't touch your face!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,389
Cape Cod, MA
This is where my head is at right now. Obama 08 ran a tight ship, it would be incredible to think that they could miss something like this. And Joe has never struck me as teflon, he dropped out of the race in 88 over plagiarism for crying out loud.
2008 was a long time ago. I'm not kidding.

Stuff like this is seen very differently now than it was even just three or four years ago. The newspapers wouldn't have gone anywhere near this back then. No one would have given a victim like this the time of day. They'd go 'he made a move, and when she didn't respond, he stopped. what's the problem?'. Hell I'm sure some people are saying that right now cause they don't want to acknowledge that stuff has changed.

But it has. Like, I feel extremely differently about Bill Clinton's past than I used to, and I can't even really understand how I could have ever looked past the things I used to.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
If people wanted to downplay and excuse rape and sexual assault you should have fucking stayed at the old place. This community is no better.
 

plagiarize

Don't touch your face!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,389
Cape Cod, MA
Yeah, this Biden story so far seems to be living exclusively in low rent conservative media, not even Fox or OANN have run with it yet. Makes me think it's already been investigated and no corroborating evidence could be found. If Biden did this, used his aides to create a situation where he would be alone with this woman to assault her, it wasn't the first or last time. That's not some rookie move, it's something you've done before and know you could get away with, and there would be other accusers.
Unless this was the first time he tried it.

It's sexual assault even if you do it one time and never again.
 

Arm Van Dam

Member
Mar 30, 2019
5,461
Illinois
Lmao, fight on CNN with Peter Navarro
Peter Navarro to @brikeilarcnn just now: "So there'll be pictures of people that you're citing or whatever with garbage bags or whatever. But that's going to be the exception that proves the rule that we're doing everything we can. ... Let's not sensationalize this crisis 1/
2/ at a time when we create more anxiety or panicked behavior with people. So, please, as you report this crisis, please keep in mind that to the extent that that it is done, it makes our job here harder, and health care professionals harder, please. Ask me your question."
wut
 

Yoma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
604
I find it hard to believe Warren would keep quiet about it if she actually did approach her campaign.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,113
There's no way Trump is going to be able to resist bringing this up. It's gonna become mainstream news at some point.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,665
The drug lord shit is a dumb distraction attempt, he’s not going launch a Panama-style overthrow.
[

If I’m honest them using this as oppo would be make me queasy. By all means let her tell her story but the Warren campaign shouldn’t be the one telling it.

Unless I’m reading this post chain weong
I mean is it any different from Warren eviscerating Bloomberg over his and his company's behavior of sexual harassment and a sexist workplace?
 

MizerMan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,483
I think if older whites people are faced with the choice of Bernie or trump, they’ll swallow their dislike of trump and go for him.
They likely would.

Absolutely...that is the risk. If we lose a good chunk of older voters we'll never make up for those losses with younger voters.

What we don't know is whether the massive losses we've seen between Bernie/Biden with older voters would result in losses in that same group between Trump/Bernie in the GE. Either way it's a gamble.
This is why I didn't want either Bernie and Biden to run at all. Both are a risk.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,546
USA
If people wanted to downplay and excuse rape and sexual assault you should have fucking stayed at the old place. This community is no better.
Some of the replies in here in regards to minimizing and downplaying an accusation of rape against the likely democratic nominee for president are disgusting.

If you want an example of why victims don't come forward, there it is.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,014

NJ just had a 50% jump in cases. Between this and NY our time in PA here is looming. Wish we could see cases tested.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
11,760
On a town hall with Himes right now, a question was asked "When will the checks arrive?" He said the intention was to have the direct deposit payments in by the first or second week in April, but he relented and said no one actually knows when the payments and checks will be sent.
 

Aaron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,437
Unless this was the first time he tried it.

It's sexual assault even if you do it one time and never again.
Absolutely. It is very possible Biden did this and never did anything like it again (or, more accurately, that other possible victims simply don't want to step forward). But with stories like this, there's always a pattern. It wasn't one person stepping forward alone that ended Franken, Roy Moore, Kavanaugh, Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, or really any other example you can think of. It was usually a single accusation that got the ball rolling for others to step forward with their own stories that complemented the first.

And again, that is absolutely not a judgment call on this specific story, just if this begins and ends with Reade's accusation that wouldn't quite fit the pattern we've seen with other high profile cases of powerful men being accused of sexual assault.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,999
Absolutely...that is the risk. If we lose a good chunk of older voters we'll never make up for those losses with younger voters.

What we don't know is whether the massive losses we've seen between Bernie/Biden with older voters would result in losses in that same group between Trump/Bernie in the GE. Either way it's a gamble.
I'd have more confidence in Bernie in a GE in a situation if he actually won the primary. In a situation where he wins by default, though? Yeah, a lot of voters are gonna be pissed and feel like their vote didn't matter.
I feel like this will make counties that have done a minimum of tests continue to have a minimum of tests to keep their "low-risk" status.
 

Aaron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,437
She (ex-wife? Girlfriend?) changed her story, then wouldn't release the video that she said showed him beating her for changing reasons or show it privately to prosecutors or lawyers, and then none of the witnesses to her story (her and her kids, IIRC) would go on record with the allegations either.

She certainly made it seem like she was doing a whole break-up revenge claim thing whether or not that was the case, which is why it didn't go anywhere. Ellison also straight up denied it and called for an investigation himself, IIRC. That would be Biden's play, I think.

LGHT_TRSN said that they don't know if we have evidence that denial works on a national level, which is fair...but I think we have insight into how the general voting public treats these claims, tbh. Republicans took it as a chance to spread lies about a picture of a bruised woman being Ellison's girlfriend, and Dems just sort of ignored that shit altogether.

This is why investigations are good. Let whatever comes to light come to light, but recognize that if nothing comes to light, no one will care (and even if stuff does come to light, like with Ford, it still might not be enough to do anything but enrage Biden's supporters and motivate them to support him more strongly).
It was Ellison's ex-girlfriend who made the abuse claim.

His divorce records with his ex-wife were also unsealed by the Star Tribune against Keith's wishes. The Tribune breathlessly speculated that they should show a similar history of domestic abuse in his marriage only for them to show that Keith was the victim of physical abuse from his ex-wife.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,193
Yup, had they not sucked up all the oxygen we could've had a much better candidate make a run.
Our bench sucks, TBH.

But I also basically have a theory that the best candidates to make it through the primary and win a GE fit into very specific profiles that appeal to American ideals that are steeped in gender, race, and age stereotypes that we as a country subconsciously (and sometimes consciously) desire:

"Young male candidates who are conventionally good-looking and have charisma" is the obvious one.

I also truly believe that our first female president will be black because this country loves its "older, wise, mothering black woman" figures. Oprah really could be POTUS. She taps into all the stereotypes that this country has built around black women since the slave-trade days.

On the other hand, brainy women aren't going anywhere in a nomination fight, which kills me as a Warren voter, but there it is.

It was Ellison's ex-girlfriend who made the abuse claim.

His divorce records with his ex-wife were also unsealed by the Star Tribune against Keith's wishes. The Tribune breathlessly speculated that they should show a similar history of domestic abuse in his marriage only for them to show that Keith was the victim of physical abuse from his ex-wife.
Ah, yes, I remember this more fully now.

This is why investigations are important.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,782
Miami
You can't implement these kinds of guidelines if you're not testing non-symptomatic people. By the time you notice that an area needs to have their designation raised it would be too late to stop the breakout there. This man is just actively trying to kill people now so everything can get back to "normal" for him which means Klan rallies and high crimes.
Yup, had they not sucked up all the oxygen we could've had a much better candidate make a run.
I honestly don't think that's true. If you look at the crop of candidates both parties have put forward the last two election cycles it's really clear that a shrinking pool of politicians want the job of president in today's world. It's all stress and scrutiny when you can live below the radar instead. I think a lot of men and women who would have been the types to run for president in previous decades are all running fortune 500 companies now instead.
 
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