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USGamer: "The Epic Games Store is Spyware:" How a Toxic Accusation Was Started by Anti-Chinese Sentiment (Read Staff Post(s))
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No, as has been outlined previously (and I am unsure if Epic has fully changed it yet) the data scraping occurred on sync of installing the client to your computer. It parsed all of the data in the Steam folder, without going through the official API which would allow proper handling of your private data. The other issue is we don't know what it is they are sending back because they are parsing a file that has a lot more than just your friends list in it, whereas the API is more controller towards friend integration only. Thus the concern and the legitimate labelling of spyware.
Also you can't say "local copy of a file and light parsing" won't violate GDPR. It isn't Epic's file, it is Steam's and your file. They were doing it without the knowledge of you and even if it were tied to only happening when you opt-in there wasn't any way of seeing what data was actually being collected just that you are hoping it is only friend information. The transparency was already lacking and the discovery of data parsing was showcasing more issues.
It is OT to this thread so I won't elaborate any further but as I mentioned I'm not at all polished up on the Huawei ordeal so I have no real clue on what is going on, just that we removed them from the tender process of the 5G network rollout which caused TPG to bow out due their backbone being based on Huawei as well. I do actually believe we have bans on some Huawei phones as well but again I'm not 100% sure.
It's undeniable that, mainly on Reddit, there was people screaming that they were collecting data for Tencent, which was then connected to the Chinese government and the whole angle of EGS being some sort of Chinese spyware, and the whole conspiracy about them giving free games went off.
That was wrong, of course, but still doesn't explain why EGS was scrapping a file containing a good number of user details without using the Steam API that has a dedicated functionality for what they said they wanted, and the said file contained much more information, that could be especially useful to Epic themselves.
Funnily how even after Valve's answer and all this had settled down, USGamer came out of nowhere with this piece; not focusing in the entire story, but instead using the xenophobic comments to overshadow the whole situation.
That was wrong, of course, but still doesn't explain why EGS was scrapping a file containing a good number of user details without using the Steam API that has a dedicated functionality for what they said they wanted, and the said file contained much more information, that could be especially useful to Epic themselves.
Funnily how even after Valve's answer and all this had settled down, USGamer came out of nowhere with this piece; not focusing in the entire story, but instead using the xenophobic comments to overshadow the whole situation.
So what do we call software that goes through your steam friends list without permission?
I swear people throw "toxic" around like fucking sweets nowadays. It's a great way of muddying up discussions by painting everyone who has a problem with EGS as xenophobic arseholes.
Fuck this article.
Fuck this article.
This.
TIL that criticising the Chinese government is racism.
While I don't think EGS would be "spying" for the Chinese, I do not think the concern is unfounded. Tencent is heavily involved with the Chinese government and with everything they are doing around surveillance it's not so far fetched to distrust a company where Tencent holds (almost) a majority stake in.
While I don't think EGS would be "spying" for the Chinese, I do not think the concern is unfounded. Tencent is heavily involved with the Chinese government and with everything they are doing around surveillance it's not so far fetched to distrust a company where Tencent holds (almost) a majority stake in.
I mean, Winnie the Pooh was absolutely actually banned, so...?
What's really disgusting is posts like these who are spreading misinformation about the censorship.
Obviously it isn't spyware, now I will just insinuate that it's clearly Epic paying journalists or something.
It isn't like there's a huge bruhaha over a popular exclusive that might have prompted this article. Or a breakdown here: https://forum.facepunch.com/general/bvnqr/Epic-Games-Store-Is-Shit-But-It-s-Not-Spyware/1/ That was a day or two old. Both of which are referenced in the article.
Clearly trading one conspiracy for another is the answer.
It isn't like there's a huge bruhaha over a popular exclusive that might have prompted this article. Or a breakdown here: https://forum.facepunch.com/general/bvnqr/Epic-Games-Store-Is-Shit-But-It-s-Not-Spyware/1/ That was a day or two old. Both of which are referenced in the article.
Clearly trading one conspiracy for another is the answer.
Nah, they are right. Here is Liu Xiaobo enjoying his morning beverage in their Winnie the Pooh mug.
I would kinda troll Sweeney on twitter about his pro-Apple, Anti-Ms tweets a few years ago. I felt it was pretty hypocritical many of his stances he took against MS/Windows when Apple would do the exact same things in iOS and he clearly admired Apple. He actually earnestly Dmed me wishing to engage about my accusations. I kinda felt bad about it then and didn't bother him after that.
Funny to think now a REALLY REALLY rich tech titan dmed me. Shoulda asked him for a loan...
Funny to think now a REALLY REALLY rich tech titan dmed me. Shoulda asked him for a loan...
Source to actually show its a fabrication? This is on such a tangent but anytime i see such dubious claims, I have to ask about your sources.
Yeah I just realised that -_- I'll edit that post with the correct link, thank you!
This is right. I'm an Chinese mainlander who has friends kidnapped by the government. Any Chinese company must assist the government in their global-infiltration agenda, it's a simple truth. EGS isn't doing spying right now, but it's a future possibility if Tencent had completed its takeover.
This post is horribly misinformed.
Well, I suppose having a lot of money doesn't stop you giving a shit about your insecurities.
How has criticising a government for their inhumane practices ever been xenophobic or racist?
Can the same be said when criticising the UK government for Brexit or criticising Donald Trump? Are the people who take issue with those also racist or xenophobic?
I am not denying there is always a certain section of knuckle dragging idiots who will say "Those damn Chinese" and mean it in a racist way, that's inevitable unfortunately.
But isn't articles like this, which is essentially disregarding any concerns people have about Epic and their private information storing and pushing them aside and then shouting "racism" "xenophobia" and suggesting that's the entire reason people take issue with Epic the same damn thing?
Casting a wide net over people and pretending that a small minority of idiots represent every single persons opinion is, in itself, a bigoted approach to a discussion.
People have good reason to have genuine concerns about Epic that have absolutely nothing to do with China, this article is disingenuous and another example of hand waving for the things Epic are doing.
I also find it funny how Tim has been largely silent on the private data issue and offering no real explanation other than "It's an outdated system we just threw in" but now this article is out he is shouting from the rooftops with supreme confidence.
Epic = shady and the people astroturfing for them should be ashamed, you are contributing to a toxic environment for both gamers and indie developers.
I will end this by sharing an excellent post from another thread which fully covers everything wrong with Epic (that has nothing to do with the Chinese government) maybe USGAMER should write an article based on these facts...
Can the same be said when criticising the UK government for Brexit or criticising Donald Trump? Are the people who take issue with those also racist or xenophobic?
I am not denying there is always a certain section of knuckle dragging idiots who will say "Those damn Chinese" and mean it in a racist way, that's inevitable unfortunately.
But isn't articles like this, which is essentially disregarding any concerns people have about Epic and their private information storing and pushing them aside and then shouting "racism" "xenophobia" and suggesting that's the entire reason people take issue with Epic the same damn thing?
Casting a wide net over people and pretending that a small minority of idiots represent every single persons opinion is, in itself, a bigoted approach to a discussion.
People have good reason to have genuine concerns about Epic that have absolutely nothing to do with China, this article is disingenuous and another example of hand waving for the things Epic are doing.
I also find it funny how Tim has been largely silent on the private data issue and offering no real explanation other than "It's an outdated system we just threw in" but now this article is out he is shouting from the rooftops with supreme confidence.
Epic = shady and the people astroturfing for them should be ashamed, you are contributing to a toxic environment for both gamers and indie developers.
I will end this by sharing an excellent post from another thread which fully covers everything wrong with Epic (that has nothing to do with the Chinese government) maybe USGAMER should write an article based on these facts...
I have noticed more anti-Chinese Government sentiments rise up recently. A new meme is that people will spam a copypasta of a bunch of banned Chinese words constantly, to somehow scare the Government. Don't know if I should laugh at it lol
If this is a race thing, why don't people have the same issues with a japanese company like Nintendo or even Sony?.
The food industry has a similar dilemma where Chinese restaurants are stigmatized for using MSG (monosodium glutamate). People argue that MSG is dangerous to consume. However there is little scientific evidence that proves that. Still, for decades, Chinese restaurants have been shunned if it's discovered that they use MSG in their food. Meanwhile, a lot of junk food and snacks have MSG in it, yet people don't bat an eye. Talk about hypocrisy.
It's misguided xenophobia, honestly. All your shit is made in China. Your own government and huge corporations are likely spying on you too, but that doesn't piss you off? Come on.
However, I won't dismiss people's misgivings towards the EGS entirely. I respect that PC players want a single repository for their games and not be forced to use a specific vendor/ launcher for their games. Sure, Epic wants to be competitive, but what they're doing isn't helping consumers, at least in the short term.
It's misguided xenophobia, honestly. All your shit is made in China. Your own government and huge corporations are likely spying on you too, but that doesn't piss you off? Come on.
However, I won't dismiss people's misgivings towards the EGS entirely. I respect that PC players want a single repository for their games and not be forced to use a specific vendor/ launcher for their games. Sure, Epic wants to be competitive, but what they're doing isn't helping consumers, at least in the short term.
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People on this forum hate on Foxconn all the time and they're Taiwanese.
In this case it could be, im no fan of Tencent or it's connections to the Chinese government, Tencent is just as bad as EA, most of the time however PC gamers crying about spyware is a tale as old as time, back in 2004, so many people who purchased Half Life 2 were bitching that Steam was trying to steal their passwords & stuff.
Foxconn had to literally install nets to catch people trying to kill themselves by jumping off their workplaces roof, it's deserved.
This. Criticising chinese government is the literal opposite of xenophobia or racism.
People who say it is racist for calling out Chinese companies due to them working with their government to persecute people is the single most fucking stupid thing I've ever read. Should we not criticise companies who partner with organisations like this:
Freedom House - Worried about Huawei? Take a closer look at Tencent
Freedom House - Worried about Huawei? Take a closer look at Tencent
guess I'll take usgamer off my list of gaming websites that are relevant. disappointing article from them.
I really don't like that several western countries with the US at the front have started with racism against chinese. Yes, I've seen posts (not on era but on other forums/news sites of how bad the chinese people are.... It's everywhere, last weeks it's been about how Huawei spies on everyone. I'm from Sweden and I can say that I don't really care if the chinese would spy on me, I already know that US is spying on me and that scares me more because I consume american media and services, while I don't consume a single thing from China.
We should be more open to other cultures.
We should be more open to other cultures.
This is how the media works. legitimate concerns over the store are denied because a fringe position of some is drummed up to be the only factor thus weakening the argument in the eyes of many.
I have no idea why Usgamer is taking the stance that everyone taking issue with EGS is this conspiracy level person.
But it works muddy the waters and make any argument against epic look like it's someone whom is racist and doesn't believe in moon landings.
Please ignore the real issues and turn against each other.
It's disturbing seeing the same tactics used to excuse genocidal acts by countries cross over to gaming.
User Banned (3 Days): Vilification of journalism and media; conspiratorial rhetoric
That's exactly what is happening and the fact people are falling for it makes it even more laughable.
Tim really is doing everything he can to garner sympathy for Epic whilst simultaneously screwing over consumers and engaging in anti-consumer practices and behaving like a marketplace bully.
Like you say, a fringe opinion from a bunch of people on reddit who think the Chinese government might be collecting data has now been made the front and center argument to protect the shady stuff Epic are doing and handwave it all away.
And then to cast a wide net out and throw accusations of racism/xenophobia at people who take issue with what Epic are doing is absolutely insulting to people who have to deal with racism/xenophobia on a daily basis.
The media using race as a manipulative tool to disguise poor business practices and deflect away from real issues, I am shocked, it's almost like the media don't actually care about racism/xenophobia and just use these topics as a way to cause conflict between people and deflect away from things.
Like I said before, I have no doubt there is an element of racism/xenophobia involved from
some knuckle dragging idiots when it comes to anything related to China but to pretend a fringe element represents the majority view and to cast aside the real concerns and put this front and centre is incredibly disingenuous, especially when you consider the majority of people who even mentioned the Chinese connection made it abundantly clear it was because they do not trust the Chinese government and it has nothing to do with Chinese people or race or xenophobia.
No problem whatsoever, I saved it purposefully from another poster because it summarised the situation perfectly imo.
Sorry, but it doesn't matter if it's spyware or not. It still earns Tencent a ton of money which contributes to the dystopian oppression in the PRC. It's still morally wrong to support it.
Wait, we have to be accepting of being spied on to be more acceptive of other cultures? Huh? Not to mention it's almost impossible to consume nothing from China, I would be willing to bet my entire life savings on the fact you have an electronic device in your house that had the majority of it manufactured in China. Not to mention if you've ever played games like LoL or used gaming services with Chinese stakes in them.
I've seen a tonne of (RIGHTFUL) criticism of the Chinese government but dislike and distrust of the Chinese government =/= xenophobia or racism against the Chinese people and saying otherwise is super disingenuous. Saying that, yes anti-Chinese sentiment and xenophobia is getting louder and larger which is fucking awful but acting like the majority of people talking about the Epic scraping debacle were subscribing to conspiracies or xenophobic rhetoric is disingenuous at best.
This article, in particular, comes as a massive red herring. Yes there were conspiracy theories, no the conspiracy theories weren't the point for the vast majority of people I saw talking about this, ESPECIALLY on ERA. Completely ignoring the Tencent stakes in Epic, there are legitimate privacy concerns with the Epic data scraping and the way they have handled their storefront and privacy policies that this article tries to handwave away as xenophobia which is terrible journalism, for shame USGamer.
Discussion Guidelines
Official Staff Communication
Let us have a civil and sane discussion in this thread please. For the record:
- Until there is direct and credible evidence that the Chinese government is influencing Epic policy, this kind of speculation will be moderated as a conspiracy theory.
- It remains fair game to scrutinize EGS' monitoring of Steam files.
- Do not hurl hyperbolical or inflammatory accusations at other members. If you see a real problem, use the report feature.
a sane decision would be to shut this thread for equating criticism at epic as some sort of racist fueled fear
it automatically insinuates one camp as xenophobic
I mean there already are multiple users on the first page insinuating that people on Era against the EGS are dumb, whiners, idiots and racists.
User Banned (1 day): Threadwhining, Backseat Moderation.
Yeah. Frankly we shouldn't be giving credence to such disingenuous bullshit.
Inflammatory articles from right wing rags get threads closed. This should too.
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