It's something I've really been trying to remove from my lexicon for years, at least as a gender neutral term, and I'll still catch myself using it from time to time. Replacing it with "folks" has helped though.
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Using "boys" to speak to everyone really needs to stop, and this is why.
- Thread starter astro
- Start date
But are people actually assuming that when they say "what's up boys" or "what's up guys"? I know I don't. I feel like there's a serious disparity between the intent of these words and the way OP and probably others take them.
I mean I guess that could work, but boy(lol) does that remove the feeling of bonding and closeness that the original statement has
I stopped using this for a while but I know so many girls that use it that I just gave up and started using it again
OP
OP
Yo, ya'all want to show some actual empathy here? "It's not a big deal" and other such dismissals, you don't get to decide what is or isn't a big deal to the people who feel excluded or slighted by the language in question. OP is non-binary, if they feel this is a problem, I'd much rather take their perspective on this issue.
Fair response I guess, but I asked you a question about a specific preference. You didn't provide anything in OP in regards to a solution. Even if as you say its not difficult people aren't inclined to do the work for you.
For reference, I use "friends" primarily when dealing with unfamiliar team mates. I am not here because the concept of inclusion is foreign to me.
OP
OP
I don't understand... not everyone is male, so why try to push "boys" as a catch-all?
Girls aren't boys.
non-binary folks aren't boys.
Gender fluid people aren't boys.
I'm not telling you how to speak, I'm explaining why this is exclusive and asking you to please consider it.
Just.Use."Folks".
That's what I do all the time and it's gender neutral. That said, where I live, the term, boys or rather "B'ys" (newfoundland, Canada) is deeply culturally ingrained and is used in ways beyond referring a person or a mixed gender group.
That's what I do all the time and it's gender neutral. That said, where I live, the term, boys or rather "B'ys" (newfoundland, Canada) is deeply culturally ingrained and is used in ways beyond referring a person or a mixed gender group.
I dont think Ive ever heard someone unironically, even then not very much ever, say boys as a synonym for the more neutral guys when talking to a mixed gender group.
I generally avoid calling people by gender unless they want me to, the terms can easily come off as condescending or confrontational.
I'm guilty of using guys. However, with this being said I never want to make anyone feel uncomfortable while online gaming. I'll try to make better use of word "everyone" or words like that. :)
I see it online all the time in group settings. Streamers, youtubers. anyone "get ready to x boys!" or some such. it IS infuriating because it's like... why?
I've started calling my friends "friend" more. It feels cute and nice tbh. I do like FUCKERS sometimes too tho.
Can you please explain why "Guys" is ok, but "boys" is not? I am just struggling to understand how you can feel so strongly about one (stabbed in the gut is the term you used I believe), and the other is ok b/c it is commonly used, even though in principle they both *specifically* refer only to males. Is the term "boys" loaded with some other significance?
Here's where this breaks down for me. If someone who was non-binary wants to post this exact thread and says:
"Boys doesn't bother me, I know it bothers some people but I'm fine with it.
Guys on the other hand, it's fully exclusive."
How would you react? Would you argue that they are wrong about it or acquiesce because it's really not a big deal. Let's say you do the latter and then promptly that person leaves the forum forever.
If I was in a direct conversation with you, and I remember your wishes, I would not use "boys". I don't know that I use the term in the first place. However, in a forum full of disparate opinions picking one incredibly minute word to police for someone is unreasonable, when that word is not offensive on its face.
Well, most refer to someone they're not sure the gender of as "He" as well. "She" or "It" is never the default.
I understand your point, but really, "guys" is a gendered term too. No reason we shouldn't use something different but indifference and laziness. Honestly, all it took was someone pointing it out to me, and I think about it every time I say it now. And I never say it with any malice obviously, but it doesn't mean I can't do better. It's not hard to pick a different word. The English language is full of superfluous non-gendered terms; pick on that feels natural. I don't think we have to protect "guys".
It's not my go-to, but it's definitely something I'm guilty of from time to time. I'll try to be more mindful.
This is mostly indicative of the overarching problem with most people just deviating to male pronouns when speaking to a group/collection of people
so I just say y'all
so I just say y'all
Because that's the nature of my mother tongue.
I use guys as folks or people.
This is the crux of the OP's argument though, if I'm understanding it correctly. That "guys", a masculine pronoun, is used as a default, and that it is a problem. What's the solution though?
Language in general defaults to male pronouns all the time, which makes total sense given that language reflects the social constructs of a society, and most societies in the world evolved to be patriarchal.
true, but I do get to decide what words I physically speak for myself in real life. other people have the right to react however they want
"Guys"
"Folks"
"Homies"
"Ocks"
"Dunns"
"Peeps"
"One-lifespan, three-dimensional, five-sense, skin puppets"
This has always bothered me. I can't stand it when I see it online and it's mostly in games related posts, like "we did it boys _____ is finally here" during a game release or something. It just makes me cringe.
I'm at fault myself though and have used guys when referring to all for the majority of my life. I make an effort to stop myself now though and try to use something like "folks."
Does anyone have any other good terms to use when addressing everyone?
I'm at fault myself though and have used guys when referring to all for the majority of my life. I make an effort to stop myself now though and try to use something like "folks."
Does anyone have any other good terms to use when addressing everyone?