eh, but not universally.
I'm in some female/trans/enby spaces and the use of "dude" does make some uncomfortable
I know.No! Don't admit you're Texan! Every time we admit that we get labeled as awful automatically!
given your user name, I assume you're TEXAN like me so we're just used to itThis kind of thing would be solved if everybody just started using "y'all."
That shit is so useful, I don't understand why it's still a regional thing.
Its obvious the Texan didn't teach you how to spell it. Y'all ;)Honestly, working with a Texan changed my life. Everything is ya'll now. Also glad people are getting over their archaic hangups of they not having to be plural.
I'm talking directly to you saying this:
" When you're not part of a group of people who has been under represented/denied, the idea of it won't really hurt you. You have so much representation and affirmation of your identity that you're bullet proof here."
You imply "identity" is just gender and if you're a male then you've not felt under represented. Again, would you say that males who are POC have not felt under represented since they're males?
But you understand that this is your opinion, right? And that while the word may make perfect sense to you, the point of the request is to think about what the other person might feel about it. And since you can't always know, the simplest and kindest thing you can do is just use another word.
I LOST MY Y'ALL CARD ALREADY :(Its obvious the Texan didn't teach you how to spell it. Y'all ;)
I feel so sad for them. :(given your user name, I assume you're TEXAN like me so we're just used to it
but I have plenty of cousins/aunts/uncles in the North-East and California, who find "yall" weird and don't ever use it
Misspelling y'all is as Texan as saying y'all. You still have it. Use it with pride. :D
If you wish to do 2 lines with each of those members, how could you call them kindly to make it? "here the non-binary people and here the gender-fluid people"?
"Guys" being versatile is not an opinion. People in general tend to default to it a lot. How many times one calls the worker IT sector the "IT guys" regardless of the gender of the people that work there? This goes to any profession, really, especially those with more obscure or complicated names. Just put an appropriate adjective there followed by "guys".
I don't disagree about changing to a more appropriate word in a particular situation, but it IS too much to ask for the word to be dropped in pop language altogether, when it's usage has been growing more and more as time passes.
I only play multiplayer games with a full party these days, but I can honestly say it wouldn't bother me to be called girls, ladies, boys, guys, whatever.
I understand that the terms "guys" and sometimes "boys" are accepted as gender neutral. There are plenty of words and phrases that are considered common use that can be hurtful to people. I do my best to educate myself, accommodate where I can, and self reflect when I see that something I have said or done is hurtful to someone. Assuming that one has the high ground of common usage is short sighted. History reflects this as does the English Oxford Dictionary when history deems colloquial usage outdated, improper, or offensive. "Guys" and "Boys" may forever and always be widely accepted as gender neutral and maybe not. Doesn't change the fact that some people are hurt when they are misgendered. Following some of these replies I can see that some people are like "whoa, never thought of it that way" and some are like "nah, don't care". That's fine, and is part of the discussion. Just thought I would chime in with an anecdotal story of a time I said something that made someone upset and didn't realize it in the hope that it might spur some folks to reflect a little.You should have had an oxford English dictionary at your disposal, then you could have educated the recipient of your address that the term is non-gendered and saved yourself a ton of completely unwarranted embarrassment.
Well yeah it would be weird if you took it literally. I often take it like they're saying something like "alright kids ..." I don't think it's intended to be a simple replacement for "you guys" at all, I think it has a slight air of superiority, like you're leading the people you're addressing. That might be part of why people don't like getting told not to say it. Like if someone yells "alright fuccbois" or greets with "what's up bitches" they're really not expecting a serious reply like "excuse me, I'm not a fuccboi/bitch, I'm a ____, please call me that next time" because they're using the word to express a certain tone with no regard to descriptive accuracy.I think referring to groups of adults as boys or girls is weird. I use 'guys' as a catch all, and would be fine if it was replaced with 'ladies.' As long as I know I'm being addressed
I don't want to sound like a furry who's into young-looking dudes.
I'm just saying I don't generally care how people refer to me. Back when I used to do lobby chat I heard way worse than where we dropping boys? People in public lobbies are generally total assholes and always have been. Good luck changing them the best option is to play in party chat and have a good time.That is actually a separate issue, which is that when a group of male teenagers or men call each other "ladies", it's always in an humorously ribbing manner. The connotations are... not very nice if you stop to think about them. :/
I understand that the terms "guys" and sometimes "boys" are accepted as gender neutral. There are plenty of words and phrases that are considered common use that can be hurtful to people. I do my best to educate myself, accommodate where I can, and self reflect when I see that something I have said or done is hurtful to someone. Assuming that one has the high ground of common usage is short sighted. History reflects this as does the English Oxford Dictionary when history deems colloquial usage outdated, improper, or offensive. "Guys" and "Boys" may forever and always be widely accepted as gender neutral and maybe not. Doesn't change the fact that some people are hurt when they are misgendered. Following some of these replies I can see that some people are like "whoa, never thought of it that way" and some are like "nah, don't care". That's fine, and is part of the discussion. Just thought I would chime in with an anecdotal story of a time I said something that made someone upset and didn't realize it in the hope that it might spur some folks to reflect a little.
I use "peeps" most of the time to address everyone. It's gender neutral and fits in most cases.
It's only gender neutral due to the fact we live in a patriarchal society, for the most part. Same reason the male plural pronoun ("eles") is considered gender neutral in Portuguese (and the same for its equivalent in other Latin languages), because the man is considered the most important part of society. I don't understand why English speakers can't take the smallest of steps to reduce this, when they have lots of neutral words, while we Latin speakers don't, so we are kinda stuck.Guys is not accepted as gender neutral it is Gender neutral.
Feeling hurt because one chooses to misunderstand what a word means is not a problem of the masses, but one of the individual.
Do gay communities have a problem with inclusion? Cause that's kind of the issue here; gaming culture being extremely male-centered in both action and verbeage.Aren't we just overcomplicating things now? I'm sure the majority isn't trying to be offensive.
I'm gay. The gay chats are all "you go girl". And I'm a man.
Maybe I should feel offended?!
That's completely different, as the connotation of that in the gay male community has never been intended to suggest the person is actually a woman, nor that the typical member of that community is a woman.Aren't we just overcomplicating things now? I'm sure the majority isn't trying to be offensive.
I'm gay. The gay chats are all "you go girl". And I'm a man.
Maybe I should feel offended?!
It's only gender neutral due to the fact we live in a patriarchal society, for the most part. Same reason the male plural pronoun ("eles") is considered gender neutral in Portuguese (and the same for its equivalent in other Latin languages), because the man is considered the most important part of society. I don't understand why English speakers can't take the smallest of steps to reduce this, when they have lots of neutral words, while we Latin speakers don't, so we are kinda stuck.
Those are completely different things. You're comparing the femininity in gay culture to being misgendered by other people. It's not nearly the same at all.Aren't we just overcomplicating things now? I'm sure the majority isn't trying to be offensive.
I'm gay. The gay chats are all "you go girl". And I'm a man.
Maybe I should feel offended?!
I use "gang."
"Alright gang, let's gooooo!" or whatnot.
It's actually way more fun to say.
Do gay communities have a problem with inclusion? Cause that's kind of the issue here; gaming culture being extremely male-centered in both action and verbeage.
what in the world is "yinz" ??
Saw that a couple times in this thread, never heard of that before
Here's the thing on what you said above though --
As I mentioned before, I'm a lifelong TEXAN and have never lived outside this state. In my over 40 years on earth, I have *never* once heard or witnessed in real life someone objecting to "you guys". So doesn't that depend on where you grew up and who you're around?
Different states, different countries, different religions, across the world, can all react differently with varying cultures & behaviors. That term is definitely not objectionable around here.