Vacation time should be combined with sick time

[ParanormalFupa]

After 5 years of working at my current job I'm sitting on 394 hours of sick time. I don't get sick much either and I only occasionally use them for an extra day off. They are earned and worth something though. They should be kept separate though as accrual time is different (vacation increases with seniority) and there are some additional differences with how they are cashed out at the end. Provides more flexibility in contract negotiations as well.

 

[Chasex]

it has to. I get 30 vacation days but also had 8 weeks sick time this year and then when i was better i could use my vacation days...america really is a third world country.

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Your logic is that because there is no federal or state regulated minimums for vacation and sick days that means America is a 3rd world country. That is laughably ignorant 1. Because you don't have a clue what it means to be an actual 3rd world country and 2. Because you think it requires regulation for workers to get benefits. This seems to be a really strange concept to grasp for a lot of Europeans especially, but government intervention is not the only means to an end. In America if you are an employer of skilled workers you are essentially forced to give great benefits packages in order to attract talent. Obviously this is not an equitable solution, but the end result is there are tens of millions of workers with ample vacation and sick days.

Anyways, It's not even remotely close to the 3rd world. Even teenagers working at McDonalds in America are rich in comparison to the 3rd world. Get a grip.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

Thanks for the insight into the advantages of keeping them separate.

How about this instead:
Sick days should be able to be used as vacation days. That's it. :-)

 

[kinoki]

I'm glad I live in Sweden. Just wow.

 

[Zoe]

Thanks for the insight into the advantages of keeping them separate.

How about this instead:
Sick days should be able to be used as vacation days. That's it. :-)

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Guess you didn't read the insights on how people go to work sick because they want to save the time for vacation.

 

[Nameless]

It's combined at my job. 6 weeks PTO + 2 "floating holidays" which are just two more days you can use for anything.

Fine with me. I think I called in sick twice this year and three times last. Even with vacations and fuck off days I still carry over a fair amount.

 

[Rinse Bassfunk]

Thanks for the insight into the advantages of keeping them separate.

How about this instead:
Sick days should be able to be used as vacation days. That's it. :-)

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Guess you didn't read the insights on how people go to work sick because they want to save the time for vacation.

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As well as how that would work with companies/countries that offer months and months of paid sick leave

 

[LGHT_TRSN]

I like them being separate. Then I don't feel like I'm wasting my PTO when I'm sick.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

There is a finite number of sick days? Why? If you're sick you stay home. Regardless of sick days.

I have 28 paid vacation days and as many sick days as I need. Usually between 0 and 3 a year.

 

[ZackieChan]

As a small business owner, some of these non-American sick time schemes sound insane. Must be a huge money sink for small businesses - does the government for the bill when you have to pay someone for a ton of time off sick, PLUS replace that employee until they come back?

 

[Deleted member 19844]

Guess you didn't read the insights on how people go to work sick because they want to save the time for vacation.

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I saw this, however it wasn't persuasive because it was not what I experienced in 12 years working for a large company that combined vacation and sick days. People just had more flexibility in how to use the pool of paid time off.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Because you think it requires regulation for workers to get benefits.

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I mean... Thats clearly the case if you look at the benefits low-skilled workers get sometimes, no?

 

[RNGesus]

We have a combined PTO bank and it's glorious. I can have 5 weeks of vacation if I don't call in sick all year.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

As well as how that would work with companies/countries that offer months and months of paid sick leave

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Oh - how about: "A specified number of sick days can be used as vacation days each year."?

 

[wild_fire]

At my job we can just accrue Sick Leave indefinitely and it never expires, while we can only carry over like 30 days of vacation time each year.

The one interesting (and pretty cool thing) is that when you retire, you can take your Sick Leave and convert it to additional work years. So if you have 1.5 year worth of sick leave you can add 1.5 more years worth of "time worked" to your retirement and pension.

I think it's a cool way of doing it, so you don't abuse sick leave and you don't really lose out on anything if you don't use it!

 

[Jimi D]

I don't get sick much, so I retired with 452 days of sick leave in the bank (we accrue 21 days a year, I was there 30 years)... But there's no pay out, no "getting my sick days" at the end; my bonus is that I enjoy good health, while many of my colleagues have suffered some horrible illnesses and conditions (from cancer, to heart problems, to depression and stress related issues)... What the company should provide me in terms of sick leave to protect my health and the health of others in my office should not be conflated with what the company owes me in vacation for performing well over x number of years.

 

[Voyager]

I'm sitting on 43 sick days... haven't called in for years.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Oh - how about: "A specified number of sick days can be used as vacation days each year."?

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But there are months of sick leave available in some places. You're basically saying "add more vacation", in those cases.

 

[Rinse Bassfunk]

As a small business owner, some of these non-American sick time schemes sound insane. Must be a huge money sink for small businesses - does the government for the bill when you have to pay someone for a ton of time off sick, PLUS replace that employee until they come back?

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Well it would encourage you to help keep your workforce as healthy as possible and also means that anyone on long-term sick leave isn't financially ruined

At least in the UK the same benefits aren't there for say self-employed workers like electricians, plumbers, etc, they obviously do take a hit when they're sick as they can't complete the work they have been asked to complete. They also don't get holiday entitlement

Without knowing your business in terms of size and structure it would be difficult to compare it to what we have here (UK)

 

[nekkid]

I have 25 days of holiday to take per year, and unlimited paid sick days (up to 6 months full pay, then my company-provided income protection kicks in and covers 75% until I'm dead, basically).

So no thanks - keep them separate.

 

[GaimeGuy]

... no.

At work we used to have unlimited sick leave/personal business (family medical situation) that was used on the honor systrm, the standard short term disability stuff required by law for, say, hospitalization for a week, and vacation hours.

That's how it should be.

Now any time you have to miss a few hours of work because of a doctor's appointment, or have a 24 hour bug, it eats into the allocated time you have for vacation, because it all comes out of the same pool. People who get sick shouldn't get less vacation time than people who don't.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

But there are months of sick leave available in some places. You're basically saying "add more vacation", in those cases.

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Right, I'm basically saying, let people use a limited number of sick days as vacation days. Say, 10 days per year or something like. You keep the rest of your sick time as sick time, of course.

 

[meowdi gras]

At my last job (web development position), there were no actual "vacation days", per se, unless you had been there for at least five years. Otherwise, you were paid for the two weeks the company shut down--Christmas week, and week of July 4th.

As for "sick days", lol. They simply didn't exist. If you didn't come in for any reason outside of those two weeks, you were liable to be written up, or even terminated. Huzzah "right to work" states. 😒

 

[Redcrayon]

At my company (UK) we get 25-30 days holiday a year (25+1 per five years service), and as much sick time as necessary. If we go over five sick days in a six month period, we get called into a meeting with HR to talk about if there's some specific reason for it.

Merging sick and holiday time sounds horrible to me, punishing people for getting sick and encouraging them to go to work while infectious. Better to treat people like adults and encourage them to stay home when they are sick while documenting it to spot patterns.

 

[Rinse Bassfunk]

Oh - how about: "A specified number of sick days can be used as vacation days each year."?

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But there are months of sick leave available in some places. You're basically saying "add more vacation", in those cases.

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Basically

Keep in mind that anyone on long-term sick leave at least where I am will be involved with Occupational Health, Department of Work and Pension, etc - so it's not just a free ticket to be off

The benefit of not getting sick is not getting sick. Having them separate allows people to take off days when they are sick with little repercussions (though they will likely have a return to work meeting/form). This leaves holiday time as holiday time, nice and simple

 

[BringBackSonics]

If you worked from home, would that change your mind? I work from home, so even if I am sick, I work. PTO works better if you are a telecommuter I feel (since one of the main concerns was sick people coming into work)

 

[Leonadar]

My work has separate PTO and Sick Leave pools. Accrual of PTO increases with time served whereas sick leave stays at 4 hrs every 2 weeks. Our Union's fear is that if we were to combine PTO and Sick leave, we would end up accruing less leave than we do with separate pools.

That being said, my boss allows us to use sick leave as vacation in a pinch. His philosophy on this is he'd rather know when you're going to be out instead of someone calling in to play hooky because they're out of PTO.

edit: typo

 

[TheHighMarshal]

I used to work for the DWP here in the uk and the amount of time off you got was insane! 5 weeks paid holiday, we also had 12 "network" days in which you could just phone in and go "naaah don't fancy coming in today" and you got the day off.

You also got flexi time, in which every minute you worked over your allotted hours or were clocked in early was added up and given to you as extra days off, i'd Inevitably show up early as I lived 3 minutes from the building so over at the course of the year i'd Work up another week easily

 

[Wooden Robot]

That isn't true. That's up to companies generally speaking. There may be certain states our countries where that is true, but every company I worked for got rid of this policy pretty fast.

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This is how it's been everywhere I've worked. Honestly, it's hard enough keeping morons from coming into work sick— when they should be using their accrued sick time— and risk getting the rest of us ill. Combining sick time with vacation time, let alone a policy that pays you out for unused sick time, would only exacerbate the issue as it now gives additional financial incentive to not stay home/see a doctor and take care of yourself.

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It's dependent on state law. A lot of states have this rule. I'm talking about paying out upon termination, not paying out at end of year or rolling over hours. Where I live anything that counts as vacation, PTO, annual leave, you get paid for those days if you leave the company to work somewhere else. Sick days you don't get. So if you are working for a company that employees people across many states, especially if there is a high turnover rate, it makes sense as an employer to set policy this way. Kind of sucks for the employee, they are limited on what they can do with their leave, although I imagine in many cases leeway is given depending on your case.

 

[Rinse Bassfunk]

Right, I'm basically saying, let people use a limited number of sick days as vacation days. Say, 10 days per year or something like. You keep the rest of your sick time as sick time, of course.

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But what happens when someone gets sick after having used those days? When do you use those days? What if you get stuck at the end of the year when people all flood to book these sick days as vacation days when they realised they haven't spent this allotment?

 

[Jogi]

Mine are separated (US) and it sucks since I usually don't need to take sick days. I think I've used four sick hours in three years. Have 177 hours just sitting there.

 

[Hogendaz85]

Here's how it works at my employer. I was on a system where the bank was separate. Each year I would get 120 hours of sick time and each month about 10 hours vacation. Now the system they put us on we have one bank and I get 13 hours a month.
I feel ripped off now.

People should stop looking at sick days as something that just sits there if not used. Instead think of it as insurance or guarantor of the just-in-cases that can happen in life.

 

[Plywood]

No, infect the entire office. evilkermit.mp3

 

[FliX]

As a small business owner, some of these non-American sick time schemes sound insane. Must be a huge money sink for small businesses - does the government for the bill when you have to pay someone for a ton of time off sick, PLUS replace that employee until they come back?

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I can only speak for Germany,
but after six weeks the government steps in and pays 70% of the employees wages continuously and lets the employer off the hook financially. This is off course paired with the rest of the welfare state, in the sense that the employer cannot just fire someone for being sick, there is a guaranteed right to return to your previous position even after long term sickness. Also universal health care does its part in paying for most of the ongoing medical treatment.

Those initial six weeks are regular pay by employers at 100%.
Obviously a financial burden for small employers, but it is just completely factored into everything. It is not a surprise to anyone who employs people. Wages, prices, taxes are set accordingly.


As an aside, the employer can ask for a doctors note on the first day of sickness, most employers ask for a doctors note on the third day.

 

[Moppy]

If you're an non-exempt employee where I work, it's separate, but if you're an exempt employee (management level and up, pretty much), it's combined. Exempt employees where I work also have no cap on sick time accrual, so they can really rack up PTO throughout the year.

 

[HyperFerret]

Keeping them seperate makes more sense.

 

[Deleted member 8674]

because I don't get sick much

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Lol how is this something you have to complain about?

 

[Deleted member 47843]

Limited sick days? Is this an American thing?

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Yes. And outside of "good" jobs, most don't give paid sick days at all and you'll get fired if you call out too much.

 

[SpottieO]

My wife has it combined, I don't. I really wish it was. I have 3 weeks of vacation right now so I'd get like 5 if it was combined. I never use my sick days anyway so they are just building up because the roll over.

You can use your personal sick time if your child is sick though so once we have a kid I'm sure that'll come in handy.

 

[Zoe]

People should stop looking at sick days as something that just sits there if not used. Instead think of it as insurance or guarantor of the just-in-cases that can happen in life.

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Especially in the US--FMLA only protects your job, it doesn't give you pay. A large sick bank insures that you'd get paid during that time.

 

[BasilZero]

i agree lol

But not because of it just being separate but like for an example I got 5 hours of sick time and 16 hours of vacation time - they can separate it but allow to combine them

To be honest would rather have them give you the equivalent of what you make for vacation and sick and just call it overall PTO

 

[shadowsdarknes]

My last company, I couldn't roll over PTO. So if I leave, I'm really only getting paid out max 3 weeks.

Now my 3 weeks is 2 weeks PTO and 1 week of sick leave. The sick time can at least accrue. So at least my good health can pay off in the long run.

 

[BasilZero]

Sick days is a weird concept. If you're sick and have proof from a doctor, then you don't have to work.

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You get proof to get paid for sick leave


Though at my current job and the previous job they never ask for proof that you were sick.


When I was working at ATT they always kept tabs on it....

 

[shnurgleton]

I used sick days at my old job to play Bloodborne and BOTW on release day

 

[Dragonelite]

On one hand I think it's a bad thing because people will just go to office sick and spread the sickness. On the other hand I'm like sick once every couple of years. Usually it's because I eat something past it's date. So let's say having lick 16 sick days counted as off days would be awesome.

But then I also know people that are sick like every other week while I have my doubts they are real sick.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Right, I'm basically saying, let people use a limited number of sick days as vacation days. Say, 10 days per year or something like. You keep the rest of your sick time as sick time, of course.

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But 99.9% of people don't use those 10 days for sickness, as the number of sick days is overwhelmingly large. Thus, 99,9% of people would just get 10 days more vacation. Why would any company do that?

 

[bmdubya]

They should be separate. At my current job, PTO and sick days are essentially combined. If you have a doctors note, you'll be excused. Usually when I get sick, it's for a day or two, so I avoid going to the doctor since it would be like $150-$200 with my basic insurance. In that case I just use PTO so I don't get docked any pay. But I also work at a school, and I get a ton of time off over holidays, I get a spring break, and I work three days a week during the summer, so I usually just use PTO as my sick days.

 

[Pepito]

What the hell is this thread?

KEEP THEM SEPARATE.

I have ten days combined currently and it was a struggle to even get to this point. Three of those days I'm forced to use over the holidays and if I use them prior then I don't get paid for those days. I'm afraid of getting sick because then I really don't get to take any personal time off.

 

[Protome]

Having a maximum number of sick days is such a bizarre concept. That's now how getting sick works?
America's whole system of how it handles sickness in relation to health care and sick leave feels like it was made by a robot or something.

I used to work for the DWP here in the uk and the amount of time off you got was insane! 5 weeks paid holiday, we also had 12 "network" days in which you could just phone in and go "naaah don't fancy coming in today" and you got the day off.

You also got flexi time, in which every minute you worked over your allotted hours or were clocked in early was added up and given to you as extra days off, i'd Inevitably show up early as I lived 3 minutes from the building so over at the course of the year i'd Work up another week easily

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Flexitime is rad, although everywhere I've worked has just been really relaxed about it than that.

Also 5.6 weeks holiday a year is the legal minimum in the UK. Usually 8 or so of those are bank holidays, depending on where you work. Your 5 weeks + 12 "extra" days is still pretty high though! But government jobs usually are.

 

[Timbuktu]

They should be separate. I got chicken pox a week ago and that kept me at home for a week. If combined then I could easily have used up my days towards the end of the year and it would have eaten into my Christmas break.