Unfortunately, a lot of missions from there on are boss missions.
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Valkyria Chronicles 4 |OT| Winter Soldiers
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
Unfortunately, a lot of missions from there on are boss missions.
I think I'm going to put this game down for a while and play other stuff before coming back for the postgame missions, but if anyone is on the fence about buying it, don't hesitate: buy it. It's a great game; not quite at VC1's level story-wise, but it's beautiful to look at and a lot of fun to play. I'm so glad they even made it!
I'm checking out some of the character info and see that Claude is
Not sure I agree with that part!
About the only negative thing I can think of is that the OST isn't as deep as I was expecting. THere are lots of re-used VC1 pieces, which would be fine for skirmishes or story missions, but there aren't enough new battle music pieces. Even the re-used pieces sometimes felt out of place as I had long since associated them with forests, cities, etc. only to see them used in other locations in this game. They didn't seem to re-use anything from VC2 or 3, either, and plenty of VC2 pieces would have worked in this game.
But everything else was just great. I'll be there on Day 1 for VC5!
I'm checking out some of the character info and see that Claude is
back to being a 1st lieutenant as the Navy took command of the Centurion away from him because he wouldn't push the button.
About the only negative thing I can think of is that the OST isn't as deep as I was expecting. THere are lots of re-used VC1 pieces, which would be fine for skirmishes or story missions, but there aren't enough new battle music pieces. Even the re-used pieces sometimes felt out of place as I had long since associated them with forests, cities, etc. only to see them used in other locations in this game. They didn't seem to re-use anything from VC2 or 3, either, and plenty of VC2 pieces would have worked in this game.
But everything else was just great. I'll be there on Day 1 for VC5!
Fell off the bandwagon due to life stuff, but I managed to get through several chapters and sidestories in the past day and a half. Some thoughts:
-I really hate that upgrading the main line mortar line means everyone gets one. I wound up starting Chapter 7-2 with Aoife rocking one of those instead of the anti-armor one I prefer her to use, and going to HQ to change that is a pain in the ass.
-Actually, all the R&D/soldier loadout management stuff is very suboptimal, especially compared to the Firaxis XCOM games. Like, XCOM 2 has some massive issues with the soldier management UI, namely the godawful long lists of weapons/items you have to scroll through, but it's at least quick and easy to adjust soldier loadouts before going on missions and you don't get tons of repeated chatter every time you upgrade some equipment.
-Boy, it'd be nice if it was more obvious how to make your corporal rank soldiers into those leader characters who can team up with other characters. I have two corporal rank scouts and two corporal rank engineers, and at no point have I been offered the opportunity to make them leaders.
-I find myself preferring the sidestory maps because they're way smaller and easier to clear.
-Chapter 7-2 is super easy to cheese if you have a grenadier with an anti-armor mortar, but close to impossible without one, just due to the damage output differential.
So, about four months ago, I started working at a machine shop. Two of my coworkers have this recurring thing they do where they tease each other with various weird gay sex jokes/innuendos. Now, to me, coming into this way after it started, this was quite odd - to someone else, it might've been offensive - but it was just dudes messing around, because they're buddies.
What I think is going on with Raz is that people are having a hard time realizing that A) Raz is a super blue collar guy (as is Kai), B) that he's super buddy-buddy with the rest of his squad, and C) we're coming into this months into their deployment as a squad, so behavior that is perceived to be unacceptable to an outsider is actually quite normal and natural to the characters. The lines of acceptable behavior are way different between you and your buddies vs you and random person on the street, and they're not necessarily going to be skewing towards what's deemed progressive.
-I really hate that upgrading the main line mortar line means everyone gets one. I wound up starting Chapter 7-2 with Aoife rocking one of those instead of the anti-armor one I prefer her to use, and going to HQ to change that is a pain in the ass.
-Actually, all the R&D/soldier loadout management stuff is very suboptimal, especially compared to the Firaxis XCOM games. Like, XCOM 2 has some massive issues with the soldier management UI, namely the godawful long lists of weapons/items you have to scroll through, but it's at least quick and easy to adjust soldier loadouts before going on missions and you don't get tons of repeated chatter every time you upgrade some equipment.
-Boy, it'd be nice if it was more obvious how to make your corporal rank soldiers into those leader characters who can team up with other characters. I have two corporal rank scouts and two corporal rank engineers, and at no point have I been offered the opportunity to make them leaders.
-I find myself preferring the sidestory maps because they're way smaller and easier to clear.
-Chapter 7-2 is super easy to cheese if you have a grenadier with an anti-armor mortar, but close to impossible without one, just due to the damage output differential.
Claude's whole deal is that he felt super guilty about pulling Riley out of the burning building and not even trying to save her parents (who were probably already dead), and Riley blamed him for their deaths (because children are stupid), which was made worse because Claude was already known as a pretty timid person, so it was perceived as his cowardice causing their deaths.
Actually, I don't think there's an actual massive shift in Raz's character - like, at most, he gets shocked out of being so reckless because of that incident. I'll use an example from my real life to explain what I think is the problem you're having.
So, about four months ago, I started working at a machine shop. Two of my coworkers have this recurring thing they do where they tease each other with various weird gay sex jokes/innuendos. Now, to me, coming into this way after it started, this was quite odd - to someone else, it might've been offensive - but it was just dudes messing around, because they're buddies.
What I think is going on with Raz is that people are having a hard time realizing that A) Raz is a super blue collar guy (as is Kai), B) that he's super buddy-buddy with the rest of his squad, and C) we're coming into this months into their deployment as a squad, so behavior that is perceived to be unacceptable to an outsider is actually quite normal and natural to the characters. The lines of acceptable behavior are way different between you and your buddies vs you and random person on the street, and they're not necessarily going to be skewing towards what's deemed progressive.
Yeah, to be honest, I don't think the whole "Valkyria = nuclear _____" thing they started with in VC1 ever made sense. The dumb stuff they do here is an extension of that, because they don't get that Valkyria are more akin to superheroes/villains/precision weapons than nuclear weapons.
okay. that's what i thought. considering that it's such a big, big thing for a lot of the crew (where it's an accepted nickname and also a character-defining trait), i think it just comes across as pissy and mean. he clearly doesn't like it, and he's their commanding goddamn officer. the resentment shown towards him months into the war is aggravating.
i think you might be a little behind me on the story, but raz goes from being asshole supreme to a roughneck with a heart of gold. it's not so much that he's an asshole that i dislike, but that he suddenly shifts to being a nice guy. this is reflected in the voice actor going from gruff to soft in later chapters.
i can get behind the nuclear weapon aspect for just vc1. it's sort of a big deal that valkyria are back, and selvaria is the only one people know. then alicia just happens to be one, which is another surprise (and a fun twist on the gameplay). it's just that for the sequels they pull out one after another and it diminishes the impact of the two from vc1. the main female character they center around the valkyria plot (not crymaria) is such a lazy, cheap device to get people feeling sad. it's so dumb.
having beaten the game now, my take is that the game really could have benefited from its structure being closer to vc1. vc1 starts off with getting the crew together in the context that their homes are being invaded. i cared a lot more about what was happening to welkin and isara from the start, and the story of the ragtag group against a massive empire was far more gripping. one way to structure it would have been making a tutorial/prologue segment where hafen's invaded, and we can have an introduction to the main crew. they all decide to join the army. and then it's a fight against the empire with the resources of the federation. don't introduce belgar and his crew at all. keep it closer to the war setting and less the war-with-anime-villains setting. even though operation northern cross falls apart, i still think there could have been an interesting story about a crew running deep into enemy territory to continue the effort.
there's a lot i'd change, both structurally and with the characters themselves. i wonder if this is what 90s shining fans feel about the current go at the franchise.
Honestly, aside from Riley (the new story character) and Raz (who brings it up in the context of Claude backsliding), pretty much no one brings it up outside of the first interlude, when Squad E enters Ranger training. And whenever Riley brings it up in her first few missions, Raz and Kai get pissed at her for using it.
Honestly, I feel like Raz starts out at roughneck (if a bit abrasive) at the beginning of the game, with his peak assholishness being at the first interlude (aka when he has nearly no respect for Claude or sense of military decorum), and shows some of that heart of gold stuff at various points in the chapters.
Like, I get why people could consider him an asshole at the point I've played through the game, but he doesn't even show up on my radar compared to many other characters from other media.
I dunno, Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans worked out pretty well starting off with a big cast that already knew each other. That said, I think the difference between that work and VC4's story is that IBO actually spends like 90% of the first episode establishing the group dynamics and their day to day life before dropping them into combat, and VC4 just has like one scene before they go into combat, and they're reconnoitering the battlefield right before the fight.
It also helps that IBO actually has flashbacks to when characters are actual children to showcase their long histories together, instead of just talking about it.
That said, I totally agree on the whole "stay more grounded" thing, especially when it comes to the antagonists - that said, VC4's problem is that aside from notGuy Fieri, pretty much none of the bad guys have had any screentime outside of one cutscene. I feel like by the time chapter 8 of VC1 rolled around, you had at least two or three cutscenes with Maximilian and his posse that established their personalities, on top of the talking head sequences for Jeager and Gregor in their respective chapters.
The Valkyria = Nukes thing doesn't work for me because I know too much about nukes and their effects, and tactically, Alicia and Selvaria are simply too precise and clean for the analogy to work. Like, they're literally doing things that army generals would pay insane amounts of money to have, and they're doing it with basically zero collateral damage - there's literally zero reason to not use Valkyria in a combat role. At least with the big death laser Max pulls out, you've got a proper nuke analogy, because not only you have the massive loss of life, the indiscriminate nature of targeting, the fact that there's going to be tons of people jacked up due to the secondary effects of the weapon, the long term environmental damage to the target location...
i can get why riley has a bit of a chip on her shoulder. raz does needle claude about 'scaredy-claude coming back' at least a couple of times throughout the game. miles knows about it and tries to get him to knock it off. kai doesn't ever have any of raz's shit. she's pretty great for most of the game.
maybe my issue is that the game tries to make a big deal about it in the first place. it would have been something else if claude never engaged in any conflict, stayed out of fights, and was generally seen as a timid guy, but not saving grown adults from a fire as a child is such a traumatic event, that pinning such a childish nickname on a kid despite his heroics just seems dumb. that it's with claude until the end of the game is dumb too.
raz does a lot of dumb things in the first half of the game that doesn't seem to connect to his character in the other half of the game. it leaves me wondering who this guy is. rosie's probably the closest thing to raz in vc1, but her thing is being a horrible racist. and it takes the (unnecessary) death of a character to shake her from her beliefs. but i get it. raz just kinda softens up and becomes a wiser character with kai getting hurt as his motivation, i guess.
i think it could have worked dropping us into the middle of a crew that already knew each other. the constant flashbacks to important events made the game feel disjointed though. part of my issue with the story is that the presentation is so cheap. there should have been fewer talking heads and a lot more traditionally-directed cutscenes. i think this would have forced the writers to hone in on the important stuff and cut out the fluff. there's a lot of fluff.
that's a fair point. i actually hate selvaria's death because it's out of nowhere. i don't even know why selvaria would agree to it, and the scene seems to exist more so alicia can have a dramatic moment later. selvaria's death is the major scene from vc1 that i dislike the most. i feel that in the sequels they've gone way overboard with it though, in how common valkyria actually are when it's supposed to be a recent discovery in vc1.
Having a blast going through this hope we get another one with all the improvements I read they want to make to the out of combat systems making them deeper/more engaging(at least I think that was the gist it was one on rpgsite I think?).
I will say the game has a lot of old UI issues but I was told the psp sequels solved those and apparently it's probably because they went back to the vc1 base that the issues returned.
I really want to like the story too, I'm in chapter 15 and mostly my take away has been that the game sets up a lot of cool things but the resolution it finds is generally very weak and makes you wonder "why the big drama?" Like the setup for the animosity between Riley and Claude made me legit curious but eh it was pretty headscratching how contrived the real reason was. It feels like it should have been something with more gravity, something that goes a bit darker.
I think chapter 14 when we learn the secret of the ships that's the first time I felt like the game went all the way where it needed to go for a follow up on one of its mysteries(it worked pretty well in that.)
In the end those things aren't distracting from my enjoyment but I feel like they missed the chance to hit a lot harder than they did. Really like the addition of squad stories. Not entirely sure but surprisingly this might end up being my third favorite title of this year I didn't know that I was missing this style of gameplay it's been too long since VC1.
Hope the followup has buttery smooth UI that's at least as good as persona 5, or the recent sen games and you maybe have to make choices with the upgrades instead of buying everything. Also I dearly miss the option to switch out a soldiers weapon in mission. I often forget to setup soldiers correctly so I've had to restart missions quite a bit just to correct my false equipment loadouts.
I will say the game has a lot of old UI issues but I was told the psp sequels solved those and apparently it's probably because they went back to the vc1 base that the issues returned.
I really want to like the story too, I'm in chapter 15 and mostly my take away has been that the game sets up a lot of cool things but the resolution it finds is generally very weak and makes you wonder "why the big drama?" Like the setup for the animosity between Riley and Claude made me legit curious but eh it was pretty headscratching how contrived the real reason was. It feels like it should have been something with more gravity, something that goes a bit darker.
I think chapter 14 when we learn the secret of the ships that's the first time I felt like the game went all the way where it needed to go for a follow up on one of its mysteries(it worked pretty well in that.)
In the end those things aren't distracting from my enjoyment but I feel like they missed the chance to hit a lot harder than they did. Really like the addition of squad stories. Not entirely sure but surprisingly this might end up being my third favorite title of this year I didn't know that I was missing this style of gameplay it's been too long since VC1.
Hope the followup has buttery smooth UI that's at least as good as persona 5, or the recent sen games and you maybe have to make choices with the upgrades instead of buying everything. Also I dearly miss the option to switch out a soldiers weapon in mission. I often forget to setup soldiers correctly so I've had to restart missions quite a bit just to correct my false equipment loadouts.
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Selvaria's death was just the final point they were making on the welkin versus max thing. Selvaria was a completely broken person who was infatuated with someone that didnt give a shit about her. In the end Max throws Selvaria away, while Welkin refuses to allow Alicia to do the same. I didnt actually like how they handled it myself, but it did make perfect sense. Its also what I think is interesting about how Crymaria feels completely inferior to Selvaria, without realizing Selvaria feels just as broken as her.
Also I've found Raz's growth has flowed well and been what I've enjoyed most in this story. It might've helped that the beach DLC had a really good 1 on 1 between Raz and Kai, but Raz's growth felt believable and enjoyable up to where I'm at (chapter 15).
Now that I'm back from vacation hopefully I can finish the game.
Ive played it and a captainless squad, and besides it adding costumes alongside the missions, it actually had a new map and I think more scenes. At least much better scenes.
Just beat Hard skirmish 5.
Damn, Sega. You're gonna let me recruit everyone but best girl
?
Damn, Sega. You're gonna let me recruit everyone but best girl
Marie
Finally going through this since it was $30, and fuck me running grenadiers are hilariously broken. Why is cover fire from a sniper an elite unlock, but grenadiers can cover fire carpet bomb the entire map out of the gate? It just turns every map into: 1) find grenadiers 2) kill grenadiers 3) actually strategize the map.
Just got to
and hoping I don't fall off of this like I did with 1. The introduction of invincible god enemies is the worst. At least you can kill the loli twins by pincering them with surprise attacks.
The AI is still amazingly shitty, too. No unit will move twice (outside of Vulcan's loops), they'll blow turn after turn rushing units into your base camp with 5 units in it, snipers will run up to nearby units and shoot them in the chest at point blank range if they're not in a tower, etc. You can still just smoke bomb scout/APC rush every "capture base" map in the game.
Just got to
the valkyria
The AI is still amazingly shitty, too. No unit will move twice (outside of Vulcan's loops), they'll blow turn after turn rushing units into your base camp with 5 units in it, snipers will run up to nearby units and shoot them in the chest at point blank range if they're not in a tower, etc. You can still just smoke bomb scout/APC rush every "capture base" map in the game.
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There are a few missions near the end w/ BS boss battles. It almost turned me off of the game completely. I'm glad I stuck with it though.
Playing through the first game on PC, I'm curious if 4 improves on certain aspects.
1) Does it still have soldiers that provide extra CP? 1 pushes you to deploy Largo, Rosie and Alicia on every mission, which I thought was a terrible decision that encouraged less squad diversity.
2) Do the later-stage missions still have that trial and error design, where you'll get hit with bullshit that you had no way of knowing about to begin with? One mission that sticks out is the one where you have to disabled an armoured vehicle. First attempt, I got pretty much flattened with snipers appearing out of nowhere, my troops being out of place, etc. Restarted, easily beat it in 3 turns because now I had a better idea of the layout and where to place everyone, and which people to use to preemptively take out certain enemies. Seems like there's less room for improvisation, so you have to have everything set up properly from the start.
1) Does it still have soldiers that provide extra CP? 1 pushes you to deploy Largo, Rosie and Alicia on every mission, which I thought was a terrible decision that encouraged less squad diversity.
2) Do the later-stage missions still have that trial and error design, where you'll get hit with bullshit that you had no way of knowing about to begin with? One mission that sticks out is the one where you have to disabled an armoured vehicle. First attempt, I got pretty much flattened with snipers appearing out of nowhere, my troops being out of place, etc. Restarted, easily beat it in 3 turns because now I had a better idea of the layout and where to place everyone, and which people to use to preemptively take out certain enemies. Seems like there's less room for improvisation, so you have to have everything set up properly from the start.
1. Yes, though once you have enough corporals you can assign a unit of your choice to be a "Captain" and can move that around as you see fit. I can't remember if that is in VC1. There are 4 characters that act as captain by default, once you've recruited them all. You can usually start 8 units, plus the total limit on most maps is 10 + 2 tanks.
2. So far this hasn't felt as bad as I remember the first game being. There is definitely at least one mission that feels this way.
1) Yes, unfortunately. But you can still work around it. Won't deny it's annoying.
2) From what I can say, I think VC4 is FAR more flexible than VC1 when it comes to reacting to sudden map changes. I only felt like 2 missions out of all the VC4 ones put me in a position where if I didn't have the right types of units out I wasn't going to get my S-Rank. This is due to Direct Command usage, grenadiers being all-around great units, and fewer scenarios where units can get stranded.
Finally got back into this after picking it up on launch day and getting distracted by Dragon Quest 11 taking way longer than I anticipated to finish (because I had a child in the hospital, but anyway...)
I'm loving it so far. Feels great to play a new Valkyria. I'm 15 hours in and the story has issues, but it doesn't detract. I'm fine with the squad for the most part, too. The battles feel really great after VC2 and what I was able to play of VC3 before my PSP crapped out. Large scale and really force me to think on my toes. There are some hilarious tricks that still seem to work at times (nudging enemies out of a zone with a tank to take it over), but it does seem to cover some of that better than before, too. Enemy grenadiers can be infuriating, but oh well. I like their addition on the whole. Really great game so far and I at least hope it sold enough to get more Valkyria.
I'm loving it so far. Feels great to play a new Valkyria. I'm 15 hours in and the story has issues, but it doesn't detract. I'm fine with the squad for the most part, too. The battles feel really great after VC2 and what I was able to play of VC3 before my PSP crapped out. Large scale and really force me to think on my toes. There are some hilarious tricks that still seem to work at times (nudging enemies out of a zone with a tank to take it over), but it does seem to cover some of that better than before, too. Enemy grenadiers can be infuriating, but oh well. I like their addition on the whole. Really great game so far and I at least hope it sold enough to get more Valkyria.
I'm thinking of getting the game but I have a few questions.
1.How is the PC version?
2.How should I approach the DLC? Is it good? Should I get it if yes when should I play it? Saw that some are hard skirmishes, is a beach DLC. Please no serious spoilers.
1.How is the PC version?
2.How should I approach the DLC? Is it good? Should I get it if yes when should I play it? Saw that some are hard skirmishes, is a beach DLC. Please no serious spoilers.
PC version is fine. Of course if for some reason it doesn't work on your machine you can quickly refund it.
Regarding the DLC my edited opinion is here
You're going to want to play the DLC as early as possible as in, the moment it is available for you to play. If you wait too long the missions will be too easy. That being said if you struggle with the gameplay maybe it won't be a bad thing being overleveled and then you can stomp the CPU some.
I've been going through the game at a snail's pace. Just made it to chapter 11 after struggling a bit with 10; it's the first time I've touched the game in weeks. Now that I'm getting into the "cheap tactics and OP enemies" part of the Valkyria Chronicles arc, I've been finding that I'm reluctant to move forward. The same thing killed my momentum in VC3 so I'm actively trying not to let the dread get the best of me. Redoing old skirmishes and squad stories to get A ranks is helping somewhat, at least.
Couldn't tell you regarding the DLC except for A Captainless Squad, which I did around chapter 9 or 10 (right after it unlocked). It was tough, especially the second mission, but I managed to make it through both with B ranks or higher. There's an optional third mission I haven't unlocked yet, though.
As for the PC version, it's fantastic. Smooth as butter on my machine, just like the original Valkyria Chronicles, plus the UI is all native res too (can't remember if VC1 was or not so this may not actually be an improvement). Really the only issue is that switching between mouse/KB and controller can be a tiny bit glitchy; mouse jitter can interfere with the cursor a tiny bit if you touch the mouse or keyboard during play. This is only a trivial annoyance, though, and doesn't get in the way of actual gameplay.
Couldn't tell you regarding the DLC except for A Captainless Squad, which I did around chapter 9 or 10 (right after it unlocked). It was tough, especially the second mission, but I managed to make it through both with B ranks or higher. There's an optional third mission I haven't unlocked yet, though.
As for the PC version, it's fantastic. Smooth as butter on my machine, just like the original Valkyria Chronicles, plus the UI is all native res too (can't remember if VC1 was or not so this may not actually be an improvement). Really the only issue is that switching between mouse/KB and controller can be a tiny bit glitchy; mouse jitter can interfere with the cursor a tiny bit if you touch the mouse or keyboard during play. This is only a trivial annoyance, though, and doesn't get in the way of actual gameplay.
Finally beat this last night. The last boss is just as bullshit as the last one in VC1, but its pretty simple to cheese.
Aside from the last mission I had a ton of fun, and it looks like there is a pretty solid postgame. I'm happy this franchise got another entry, hopefully it isn't the last one.
Aside from the last mission I had a ton of fun, and it looks like there is a pretty solid postgame. I'm happy this franchise got another entry, hopefully it isn't the last one.
Anyone know what's up with SEGA not releasing the Edy and Squad 7 DLC's on steam? Both should have been out by now, and SEGA hasn't given any official word.
Well at least they finally told us what's going on. It kind of sucks though, because I was hoping to tackle all of the DLC at once next week, but now I may hold off until the last two are released.
got into this again for my days off during christmas and now that all the dlc has been released
did some boring stuff (grinding for 1 mill for gertrude, ugh) and the two latest dcls. the edy one was bad. really, really bad. no cutscenes at all, just the worst and most mundane mission in the entire game without any context. seriously don't buy it. the squad 7 dlc was decent even though the story is pretty stupid. (the game really shouldn't draw even more attention to how 4 has basically exactly the same main characters in terms of archetypes and personalities as the the first game did. that was already embarrassingly obvious.) but the missions were decent though quite easy for my late game squad. at least the second mission had a bit of challenge
then i continued with chapters 15 and 16 which were both great. all those missions were excellent little puzzles. not overly punishing but still challenging. very well designed, especially considering how two of them
anyway, if anyone is still reading this thread i'm curious about what decision y'all made in chapter 16. i'll make a separate post about that and explain what i did
did some boring stuff (grinding for 1 mill for gertrude, ugh) and the two latest dcls. the edy one was bad. really, really bad. no cutscenes at all, just the worst and most mundane mission in the entire game without any context. seriously don't buy it. the squad 7 dlc was decent even though the story is pretty stupid. (the game really shouldn't draw even more attention to how 4 has basically exactly the same main characters in terms of archetypes and personalities as the the first game did. that was already embarrassingly obvious.) but the missions were decent though quite easy for my late game squad. at least the second mission had a bit of challenge
since for part of it you were stuck with only the squad 7 characters, which are not leveled up and geared up, on a decently challenging map.)
then i continued with chapters 15 and 16 which were both great. all those missions were excellent little puzzles. not overly punishing but still challenging. very well designed, especially considering how two of them
were boss missions and the third was a stealth mission, all of which are mission types this series sometimes struggles to do right
hydrophilic attack
Im basically just where you are at. Finished 15 and 16 and thought they were the best parts of the game. 15s final fight is the best this series has had to offer, despite its many struggles with bosses that whole map was excellent. Also the best story moments in this game were those 2 chapters.
Then also like you, I wanted to say fuck it and play the last two DLCs. Except I can't. Sega didn't bother to release them on PC...I cant even find a statement about it. Just never showed up. ugggh....I really wanted the squad 7 one. Reading this thread now I do see the statement finally showed up on reddit. Still bummed.
Im basically just where you are at. Finished 15 and 16 and thought they were the best parts of the game. 15s final fight is the best this series has had to offer, despite its many struggles with bosses that whole map was excellent. Also the best story moments in this game were those 2 chapters.
Then also like you, I wanted to say fuck it and play the last two DLCs. Except I can't. Sega didn't bother to release them on PC...I cant even find a statement about it. Just never showed up. ugggh....I really wanted the squad 7 one. Reading this thread now I do see the statement finally showed up on reddit. Still bummed.
so what did y'all do in chapter 16?
anyway, what did y'all do?
who did you choose to go with raz?
myself, i limited my options to someone who i'd already made into a corporal, as well as already completed their squad story
furthermore, i wanted a scout, so i could use direct command with them to make raz move farther. (the game won't let you select leader units to go with raz, including the corporal you have assigned to be a leader, BUT i figured out you can get around that by first putting them with raz, and then assigning them as leader after doing that.
anyway, the only only units fitting all those criteria for me were godwin, odin, rosetta, nico, and azusa
in the end by the process of elimination, i settled on azusa, reasoning below:
if anyone is interested, i found a youtube video with all the dialog for all the different characters you can choose: (be aware that the video has spoilers since it features certain characters i didn't know you could get on your squad. probably post-game bonus characters, i'm guessing.)
i think it's pretty cool that they recorded unique dialog for all characters you can choose.
another neat detail is that if the character that goes with raz dies, there's a quite lengthy bit of unique dialog with raz as he makes his last stand. made failing the mission because of a shocktrooper hidden in the grass right at the end worth it lol. (the dialog if raz dies is pretty short and lame though.)
myself, i limited my options to someone who i'd already made into a corporal, as well as already completed their squad story
furthermore, i wanted a scout, so i could use direct command with them to make raz move farther. (the game won't let you select leader units to go with raz, including the corporal you have assigned to be a leader, BUT i figured out you can get around that by first putting them with raz, and then assigning them as leader after doing that.
anyway, the only only units fitting all those criteria for me were godwin, odin, rosetta, nico, and azusa
in the end by the process of elimination, i settled on azusa, reasoning below:
i pretty quickly ruled nico and rosetta. even though nico would probably gladly go, thinking she would be saved by god or dying a martyr or some shit, but i just couldn't bring myself to send a 16-year-old to her death. she is not even old enough to be in a war in the first place. definitely not old enough to go on a suicide mission.
rosetta also probably wouldn't mind giving her life to fight the fascists, but i just like that character too much to let her die. a trans woman who's in it to kill fascists to ensure a future for the oppressed darcsen is just way too rad send to her death. also, sending the game's only trans character to their death would not be a good look.
i considered odin, but not really. even though he found some courage in his squad story, he's still way too much of a coward to sign up to a guaranteed suicide mission. also, he's probably the best scout in the game outside minerva. i'm not giving that up :p
i seriously considered godwin, because i don't find him all that useful a character. but in the end refrained for story reason. ultimately, he's just too selfish to accept such a mission. i just can't see it. also, sending TWO darcsen characters to their deaths was, again, not a good look. that's what the imps would do, but not me, lol.
so, i settled on azusa in the end. ok, yeah, it meant sending a darcsen and a foreigner. so, also a bit racist. but i figured out of all the non-MC scout characters, she'd be the most likely to volunteer. she was pretty much a dead woman anyway, since she defected from her spy organization. having already spied on her squaddies probably weighed heavily on her, so she'd jump at a chance at redemption. she also didn't have any family. using her short time of freedom before she'd be killed by her organization to die for her squad mates sounds like something she would do. thematically, her good sense of smell would be useful in a whiteout snow storm too, even though i think in actual gameplay it only triggers in night environments.
i felt pretty vindicated by my decision in her unique dialog at the end of the mission: "i have no regrets." yep, this is what she would have chosen alright.
rosetta also probably wouldn't mind giving her life to fight the fascists, but i just like that character too much to let her die. a trans woman who's in it to kill fascists to ensure a future for the oppressed darcsen is just way too rad send to her death. also, sending the game's only trans character to their death would not be a good look.
i considered odin, but not really. even though he found some courage in his squad story, he's still way too much of a coward to sign up to a guaranteed suicide mission. also, he's probably the best scout in the game outside minerva. i'm not giving that up :p
i seriously considered godwin, because i don't find him all that useful a character. but in the end refrained for story reason. ultimately, he's just too selfish to accept such a mission. i just can't see it. also, sending TWO darcsen characters to their deaths was, again, not a good look. that's what the imps would do, but not me, lol.
so, i settled on azusa in the end. ok, yeah, it meant sending a darcsen and a foreigner. so, also a bit racist. but i figured out of all the non-MC scout characters, she'd be the most likely to volunteer. she was pretty much a dead woman anyway, since she defected from her spy organization. having already spied on her squaddies probably weighed heavily on her, so she'd jump at a chance at redemption. she also didn't have any family. using her short time of freedom before she'd be killed by her organization to die for her squad mates sounds like something she would do. thematically, her good sense of smell would be useful in a whiteout snow storm too, even though i think in actual gameplay it only triggers in night environments.
i felt pretty vindicated by my decision in her unique dialog at the end of the mission: "i have no regrets." yep, this is what she would have chosen alright.
if anyone is interested, i found a youtube video with all the dialog for all the different characters you can choose: (be aware that the video has spoilers since it features certain characters i didn't know you could get on your squad. probably post-game bonus characters, i'm guessing.)
i think it's pretty cool that they recorded unique dialog for all characters you can choose.
another neat detail is that if the character that goes with raz dies, there's a quite lengthy bit of unique dialog with raz as he makes his last stand. made failing the mission because of a shocktrooper hidden in the grass right at the end worth it lol. (the dialog if raz dies is pretty short and lame though.)
anyway, what did y'all do?
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yeah, i read about their pc fuck up. really strange :/
yeah, chapter 15 is great
i like that they give you all the information you need basically right from the start. for the first one, you know from the previous chapter that you want to reach high ground with lancers and/or anti-armor grenadiers with, and the position of the high ground is shown to you right there on the map. so you know that the mission is all about how to get the relevant slow units past all those tanks and grenadiers and shocktroopers to that position. it's a fun puzzle
15-2 is great as well because the gimmick of shooting the staff is easy to grasp, relatively easy to do, and there's a high chance you'll even figure it out yourself by experimentation before the game spells it out for you. the fact that it's the same map as before (with some alterations) is really clever, because it lets you make informed decisions about where you place your troops and which units you send in which directions. the plan i first came up with worked perfectly for an s rank, without any trial and error, so that feels really good. it's also good that crymaria can't reach as much of the map with her attacks as on earlier missions, which gives you the necessary room for maneuver to solve the puzzle of how to get your characters to where they need to be for your final push. the other missions with her were a bit frustrating with how much of the map she can cover with instant death, so i was slightly dreading both missions going in, but was pleasantly surprised.
the story beats are pretty good as well. i hope this is how the story ends for crymaria and klaus. i fully expected the game to revel in the melodrama of their tragic deaths so i really hope they get to ride away into the sunset like this chapter suggests. i really don't want to fight any of them yet another time.
15-2 is great as well because the gimmick of shooting the staff is easy to grasp, relatively easy to do, and there's a high chance you'll even figure it out yourself by experimentation before the game spells it out for you. the fact that it's the same map as before (with some alterations) is really clever, because it lets you make informed decisions about where you place your troops and which units you send in which directions. the plan i first came up with worked perfectly for an s rank, without any trial and error, so that feels really good. it's also good that crymaria can't reach as much of the map with her attacks as on earlier missions, which gives you the necessary room for maneuver to solve the puzzle of how to get your characters to where they need to be for your final push. the other missions with her were a bit frustrating with how much of the map she can cover with instant death, so i was slightly dreading both missions going in, but was pleasantly surprised.
the story beats are pretty good as well. i hope this is how the story ends for crymaria and klaus. i fully expected the game to revel in the melodrama of their tragic deaths so i really hope they get to ride away into the sunset like this chapter suggests. i really don't want to fight any of them yet another time.
15-1 I pulled out the same strategy I did on the last tank boss fight. The firing Line. I won on turn 2 by setting up a volley of the hofen, glory, and 3 lancers.
just finished all the cut scenes and it's really cool that you get a unique accessory depending on who you choose to go with raz. the one i got was pretty garbo (+3 dodge) but i wonder what else you can get
ah, the ol' firing line is always effective. 2 turns is much faster than what i did. did you manage to get the ace tank as well in those 2 turns?
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Yep, turn 1 while I was moving my lances and the glory into position they each took a shot at the ace. I'm thinking I had to since the hofen didn't move and it's radiator would've been open game to that ace
how did you prevent them from being insta-killed by crymeria? i think she starts right next to the ace. smoke rounds? or maybe defense orders are enough
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nah, she ran down, shot at raz and ended turn. While I was volleying at the tank the hafen was playing shield. She did eventually RNG her shots around enough to kill my engineer and 1 lancer, but by then the tank was just about dead.
ah, you shot at the ace tank on turn one with all your lances from the starting position? yeah, i guess you'd have to because running them all the way up to there would have put them too far away from the vulcan to win on turn two.
i was thinking that running close to the ace with the lancers would have them killed by interception fire by the valkyria, but i guess if you stayed close to the starting area, they'd be relatively safe
i was thinking that running close to the ace with the lancers would have them killed by interception fire by the valkyria, but i guess if you stayed close to the starting area, they'd be relatively safe
had a great idea but it didn't work in practice :(
wanted to use shocktroopers + high-magazine weapons + anti-tank accessories + demolish boost to fight against tanks
it does work brilliantly against ordinary tanks. you'll be able to take them out in 5 bullets pretty much regardless of which shocltru machine gun you're using (as long as you attack the weak spot and using demolish boost is critical). that's a pretty fun tactic against ordinary tanks. but for some reason it just doesn't work against the boss tank.
the weird thing is it worked against the boss tank ON ONE SINGLE TURN, but i was never able to repeat it on any other turns. my only theory is that you need to shoot from a high enough angle or otherwise the game arbitrarily decides you should deal no damage even though you can hear by the weak spot sparkly noise that you are actually hitting the weak spot? and that that one turn it worked i randomly happened to be standing on a sufficiently high enough piece of geometry (slightly higher than the surroundings maybe) for it to work. or maybe that turn it worked wad only a bug
edit: haha yes i got it! my theory above wad incorrect. but i figured out how to break the game with shocktroopers
the combination is demolition boost + penetration + all the stuff above. that combination took out 75% of vulcan's HP in one shocktrooper attack. add inspiration and it's over 80% of its health but it's not worth the extra two AP
others have probably already figured it out, but it's a hilarious way to break the game
i'll try to make a video tomorrow showing it if i can figure out how all the share stuff works on ps4. mainly just because i think a shocktrooper doing 75% damage to vulcan in one attack would make for a hilarious gif
wanted to use shocktroopers + high-magazine weapons + anti-tank accessories + demolish boost to fight against tanks
it does work brilliantly against ordinary tanks. you'll be able to take them out in 5 bullets pretty much regardless of which shocltru machine gun you're using (as long as you attack the weak spot and using demolish boost is critical). that's a pretty fun tactic against ordinary tanks. but for some reason it just doesn't work against the boss tank.
the weird thing is it worked against the boss tank ON ONE SINGLE TURN, but i was never able to repeat it on any other turns. my only theory is that you need to shoot from a high enough angle or otherwise the game arbitrarily decides you should deal no damage even though you can hear by the weak spot sparkly noise that you are actually hitting the weak spot? and that that one turn it worked i randomly happened to be standing on a sufficiently high enough piece of geometry (slightly higher than the surroundings maybe) for it to work. or maybe that turn it worked wad only a bug
edit: haha yes i got it! my theory above wad incorrect. but i figured out how to break the game with shocktroopers
the combination is demolition boost + penetration + all the stuff above. that combination took out 75% of vulcan's HP in one shocktrooper attack. add inspiration and it's over 80% of its health but it's not worth the extra two AP
others have probably already figured it out, but it's a hilarious way to break the game
i'll try to make a video tomorrow showing it if i can figure out how all the share stuff works on ps4. mainly just because i think a shocktrooper doing 75% damage to vulcan in one attack would make for a hilarious gif
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i improved the method slightly:
video showing method here:
Dear god. I need to try this some day. I assume you just did nothing for two straight turns?
on the first turn i opened up the cover caves just north of the starting area and hid my infantry troops there, plus killed some close-by enemies with my tanks
on my second turn i basically did nothing except heal my tanks and kill some enemies that wandered close
needed to wait for the third turn for the vulcan to come to me. probably could have taken my shocktrooper to him on the second turn if i thought about how for awhile, but this was the fastest way in terms of time, since i needed to iterate a bit to come up with the correct combination of equipment and orders
Ah, okay, I was wondering because I don't know how you get that much CP in a round unless you're actively saving up. I've never done the whole "put sixteen orders on
yeah i never really did that before either. but it was fun!
the reason i wanted to try was because i was going through my accessories and started wondering about what the hell would be the point of accessories that give +10 or +15 damage vs armor. for lancers and armor piercing grenadiers that's around a one percent boost. that's pretty much pointless. so i figured the only way to make use of them would be to give a big percentage boost to low damage, high number of shots weapons, like shocktrooper machine guns. and then i just started experimenting with how to get that to work
So I beat the game, and in the end I'm super happy with it
Some story thoughts
I actually thought the last 2 chapters did a decent enough job of making Claude and Riley a bit deeper characters. If they could've gotten the writing in especially chapter 17 a little smoother then it would've been perfect. The best characters ended up being Walz and Crymaria (also responsible for the best scene), followed by Leena and Raz. Those two were my favorite for a while, but by the end Walz and Crymaria passed them up.
So final mission on the hard mode you unlock after beating the game the first time...ended with a single trigger pull. And a lot of orders.
Oh yea, 2 more things
Some story thoughts
With chapter 17, I liked what they were going for, the whole almost crossing the line thing without even realizing how wrong it is. I think the writing was a little stilted but what they were going for came across. Claude and Riley just thinking its what must be done to end the war, Minerva seeing it as just revenge, and Leena just completely lost in everything that happened to her. However my one disappointment was that the trigger to not go through with it for Claude should have been remembering how completely against using Angie as any kind of tool Raz was. Instead he thinks hes disappointing Raz by not setting off the bomb when more than anyone he wouldve been against it. The realization of it being an act of genocide and not war was nice for Minerva's return to senses though.
I actually thought the last 2 chapters did a decent enough job of making Claude and Riley a bit deeper characters. If they could've gotten the writing in especially chapter 17 a little smoother then it would've been perfect. The best characters ended up being Walz and Crymaria (also responsible for the best scene), followed by Leena and Raz. Those two were my favorite for a while, but by the end Walz and Crymaria passed them up.
So final mission on the hard mode you unlock after beating the game the first time...ended with a single trigger pull. And a lot of orders.
Oh yea, 2 more things
1) The final ending scene, I almost wished he ran down to find out Raz was alive after being taken POW instead of actually dying in chapter 16...his death was a little cliche and Leena deserved the happiness. The true ending falls a little flat as a secret unlock since it was already safe to assume Riley was alive after Claude got her out of the Centurion, so the true ending unlock really adds nothing. just a "Hey, claude's happy shes out of the hospital"
2) I would've rather seen Nikola kill Belgar and walk away. Seeing her just take him out with her as a continued view of his twisted mental manipulation was way less satisfying. A "Living for Chiara" ending would've been better to me, even if a bit cliche
2) I would've rather seen Nikola kill Belgar and walk away. Seeing her just take him out with her as a continued view of his twisted mental manipulation was way less satisfying. A "Living for Chiara" ending would've been better to me, even if a bit cliche
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Just beat the game last night. I'm pretty reasonably happy with it. Would definitely put down for a VC5 should that pipe dream ever happen.
My big complaint is that the game is a bit too easily exploitable. A lot of skirmishes were complete jokes. You can just roll over to the camp and take it within one or two actions. Story missions, while trying to be different, were sometimes as easily exploitable. And it's hard not to do that stuff since you're graded on how quickly you complete things. It's something the series has always struggled with, really.
I enjoyed the broad strokes of the stories and for the most part the characters were decent. Some of the individual scripting was poor and Angie felt a bit too over the top 'anime' to me, but, again, that's something the series has always had a bit of an issue with.
Not sure if I'm going to try the hard skirmishes, though. Maybe they'd be fun strategically but I have a hard time connecting to things without any story. We'll see. I might just move on to XBC2: Torna.
My big complaint is that the game is a bit too easily exploitable. A lot of skirmishes were complete jokes. You can just roll over to the camp and take it within one or two actions. Story missions, while trying to be different, were sometimes as easily exploitable. And it's hard not to do that stuff since you're graded on how quickly you complete things. It's something the series has always struggled with, really.
I enjoyed the broad strokes of the stories and for the most part the characters were decent. Some of the individual scripting was poor and Angie felt a bit too over the top 'anime' to me, but, again, that's something the series has always had a bit of an issue with.
Not sure if I'm going to try the hard skirmishes, though. Maybe they'd be fun strategically but I have a hard time connecting to things without any story. We'll see. I might just move on to XBC2: Torna.
Finally bought and played through Squad E to the Beach and enjoyed it. However, my in-game play time is stuck at 59:59:59 although I can still use Steam to see my actual play time of 75 hours. (seems to be a common bug)
Also wondering when the Steam version will get those last 2 DLC...
Also wondering when the Steam version will get those last 2 DLC...
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Okay, playing the game performance seems to be good overall even with max settings, as I wanted. Good.