Valve changes revenue sharing for Steam to allow successful developers to earn bigger percentage cut

Oct 30, 2017
322
Yes of course, there's always a risk. Not only for consoles, but for every product that needs early investment, including games.

But consoles being closed ecosystems give a lot more opportunities for huge profits as well. Console manufacturers have many sources of revenue that Valve doesn't have. I guess that's what people are trying to tell you.
What opportunities are provided outside of on-line subscription does Valve not have?

I’m seriously trying to think on it. Valve sells accessories, they could easily make a game subscription service. I guess retail games but thats dying and is one of the reasons Steam is successful.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,506
EA surely won't come back after all these years.

Please explain to me how charging less royalties than any other competitor in certain situations is very shitty?
It's shitty because he doesn't benefit from this change, That's how most indies seem to take this. (Who arguable can benefit most from Steam's existing user base).
Of course you can sell for nearly zero royalties on sites like Kartridge and Itch.io, but you don't get any user base benefit.
 

Ge0force

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Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
What opportunities are provided outside of on-line subscription does Valve not have?

I’m seriously trying to think on it. Valve sells accessories, they could easily make a game subscription service. I guess retail but thats dying and is one of the reasons Steam is successful.
Royalties from retail are a huge source of revenue for console manufacturers.

But I was talking about the advantages of a closed ecosystem: no one can make accessoires for Playstation or Xbox without paying royalties to Sony or Microsoft for example. And no one can sell games for consoles without paying royalties to the console manufacturer.

Meanwhile, I can buy a Steam game in the humble store and play it using my corsair mouse or Xbox controller. You see my point?
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,634
Got a survey prompt, I usually put privacy settings way up, and tell it to hide the ADs that it pop up after launching or after finishing a game session. This is the first time I'm seeing this, by default it was on "Yes." Wonder what more information they need out of users, could be about getting other devs to come back to steam.

"How loyal are you to steam? Will you play games if they are not on steam? Steam Steam Steam"

 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,070
Console manufacturers take not only 30% for games directly sold through their online storefronts like valve, they also take a cut for retail copies, something valve isn't doing with retail copies / steamkeys
Console manufactures also make profits via paywalling online services, something valve isn't doing.
Console manufactures also make profits through hardware and periphery sales, something valve is doing, but at a vastly smaller scale.

But of course platform warrior will ignore these kinda things when screeching.
It's so transparent, self-defeating and stupid.

But hey, gamers plus tribalism is one hell of a drug.
 

708

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,278
Lol fuck off, valve. 30% is so big already for the type of shit you do for the game. You're telling us what you do for the game equates to 1/3 of what everyone who worked on the game did. Wtf.
-Sincerly, someone who knows jackshit about what Valve does.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,147
Got a survey prompt, I usually put privacy settings way up, and tell it to hide the ADs that it pop up after launching or after finishing a game session. This is the first time I'm seeing this, by default it was on "Yes." Wonder what more information they need out of users, could be about getting other devs to come back to steam.

"How loyal are you to steam? Will you play games if they are not on steam? Steam Steam Steam"

You just need to read it is HARDWARE Survey. They just get basic info about your system (CPU, GPU, monitor resolution, Windows version...).
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Deutschland
Got a survey prompt, I usually put privacy settings way up, and tell it to hide the ADs that it pop up after launching or after finishing a game session. This is the first time I'm seeing this, by default it was on "Yes." Wonder what more information they need out of users, could be about getting other devs to come back to steam.

"How loyal are you to steam? Will you play games if they are not on steam? Steam Steam Steam"
The steam hardware surveys have been a thing for like over a decade now
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,050
I’d say creating and selling hardware, often at a loss is more than what Valve does. Sure they have forums and refunds but I’d think that’s much cheaper than subsidizing hardware creation and distribution.

Creating and selling hardware is Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft's way of making money. Are they given for free ? No. Neither to devs or consumers. You're mixing orange and apples here. And on top of that, that's what the royaltie fees is for. Which is different than the 30% cut Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are taking on digital downloads.
As for subsidizing hardware, it's bullshit. First of all: Nintendo often sell at profits. For the others; they found the right way: Take a 30-50 bucks loss on hardware... and make you pay 60 bucks on an arbitrary online paywall.


To be fair I appreciate some of those but they don’t come close to what it costs to manufacture and launch a console. It’s just not comparable from a financial perspective.
You're right, because they are SELLING these things. You're acting like they're handing hardware for free.
 
Oct 30, 2017
322
Royalties from retail are a huge source of revenue for console manufacturers.

But I was talking about the advantages of a closed ecosystem: no one can make accessoires for Playstation or Xbox without paying royalties to Sony or Microsoft for example. And no one can sell games for consoles without paying royalties to the console manufacturer.

Meanwhile, I can buy a Steam game in the humble store and play it using my corsair mouse or Xbox controller. You see my point?
I genuinely do see your point and that is real money.

That said I gotta imagine officially licensed products is peanuts in the scheme of things.

Retail distribution of games is still huge but it seems clear that it’s a dying sector. Still lots to be made for now though.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,070
Got a survey prompt, I usually put privacy settings way up, and tell it to hide the ADs that it pop up after launching or after finishing a game session. This is the first time I'm seeing this, by default it was on "Yes." Wonder what more information they need out of users, could be about getting other devs to come back to steam.

"How loyal are you to steam? Will you play games if they are not on steam? Steam Steam Steam"

Are you joking or trolling or sincerely asking this question?
These threads always make it hard to tell.

If you are sincere: this is the same prompt for the same hardware survey which has existed for a decade or so.
Its results are available here and are useful for developers when trying to figure out what hardware Steam users are playing on (as long as it is contextualized well).
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Ooh, I heard about those, but I thought they collect that hardware stuff automatically. First time seeing it. I'm surprised people participate in them.
I do sometimes, I don't see why not. At least it's an optional survey. Consoles send everything you do to the manufacturer without an option to opt out afaik.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,506
Got a survey prompt, I usually put privacy settings way up, and tell it to hide the ADs that it pop up after launching or after finishing a game session. This is the first time I'm seeing this, by default it was on "Yes." Wonder what more information they need out of users, could be about getting other devs to come back to steam.

"How loyal are you to steam? Will you play games if they are not on steam? Steam Steam Steam"

It's standard hardware survey that is run at beginning of each month (you'll get it like once per year max per device).

Ooh, I heard about those, but I thought they collect that hardware stuff automatically. First time seeing it. I'm surprised people participate in them.
It asks your internet speed and if you have mic (iirc) nothing else, otherwise it's automatically collected.
 

ColonelForbin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
371
User Warned: Drive-by trolling post
Valve is starting to see the writing on the wall. Pc gamers are ok with multiple launchers. They just want their game. It being released on stream is no longer a necessity. Maybe valve will now get back into making games....lol.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
EA surely won't come back after all these years.



It's shitty because he doesn't benefit from this change, That's how most indies seem to take this. (Who arguable can benefit most from Steam's existing user base).
Of course you can sell for nearly zero royalties on sites like Kartridge and Itch.io, but you don't get any user base benefit.
at this point EA doesn't care about getting real sales and just wants to show investors that they're totally 100% into Origin. If it was a matter of purely money they would have put back their games on Steam ages ago, because anything that isn't a Battlefield bombs.
 

Ikuu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,352
Lol fuck off, valve. 30% is so big already for the type of shit you do for the game. You're telling us what you do for the game equates to 1/3 of what everyone who worked on the game did. Wtf.
This forum has such a big issue with people feeling the need to talk on topics they have no clue about at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,947
Houston
or the iOS store
or the Google Play store
or Uber
or Lyft
or PSN Store
or Microsoft Store
or Nintendo eShop
or music from Record Companies
or Spotify
or Netflix
or Hulu
or ISPs
or YouTube
...
the list goes on and on

but fuck valve, greedy bastards, everyone else is cool tho (except for google play store, good that fortnite released outside so they don't give evil google any money!")
yes fuck all of those if they don't make a physical product but if one has to order the list of fuck yous Valve is #2 on the list
 

Deleted member 300

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,669
Throne breaker should be telling that unless you have a banger people frankly dont care for your other launchers. Sold really well on gog they had to quickly release on steam a week later.

Activision picked right with call of duty Royale but that bubble isn't a long term thing to expect to stay from steam.
 

Ge0force

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Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
I agree and that future scares me.
Yeah me too. It may give console manufacturers way too much power. If their subscription services become the most popular way of playing games, being on that service or not may become the major factor that decides if your game will be successful or not. This would bring us back to the pre-selfpublishing era.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,964
I’d say creating and selling hardware, often at a loss is more than what Valve does. Sure they have forums and refunds but I’d think that’s much cheaper than subsidizing hardware creation and distribution.
Good thing they’re charging everyone to play games online, plus selling advertising space on your screen, plus taking a 30% cut.
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
653
So the rich gets richer?
Was just about to post this. Would love to see Valve just reduce their ludicrous cut, especially given that they could and likely do charge for feature spots on the storefront.

Markup that high makes sense in brick and mortar stores, but in a digital storefront it seems excessive.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,183
I'm not seeing how this will incentivize big publishers that are already planning to move away from Valve to stay with valve. Companies like EA and Activions-Blizzard believe their product is good enough that people will buy them from wherever they choose to sell it. I doubt they will change their minds and come back despite these changes.
 

Jimster

Banned
Oct 30, 2018
57
Was just about to post this. Would love to see Valve just reduce their ludicrous cut, especially given that they could and likely do charge for feature spots on the storefront.

Markup that high makes sense in brick and mortar stores, but in a digital storefront it seems excessive.
If you think 25% margin is ludicrous please don't ever apply for a job in any store where you might have access to the buy in prices.
 

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,276
Why should the developer of Bloody Boobs get a bigger cut than the developer of Hollow Knight? Who’s bringing more users in?
That's an absolutely awful way of looking at things.

There's plenty of actually fantastic games also struggling to make back their dev costs, you know.

The mistake is thinking any capitalist enterprise will do things for the little man, when the entire system is set up to exploit them while those with the money get the real power for change. That's not exactly a Steam problem, though.

Was just about to post this. Would love to see Valve just reduce their ludicrous cut, especially given that they could and likely do charge for feature spots on the storefront.

Markup that high makes sense in brick and mortar stores, but in a digital storefront it seems excessive.
Then please bring this up in every eShop, PSN, and Xbox thread from now on. Not only in Valve ones.

These splits are standard. Literally the only store which doesn't do this is Itch.io, with their amazing variable cut with a 10% default.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,964
That's an absolutely awful way of looking at things.

There's plenty of actually fantastic games also struggling to make back their dev costs, you know.
It’s reality.

For every one of those “fantastic” games there’s a hundred asset flips that don’t deserve a better deal than the developers that bring in users.
 

Jimster

Banned
Oct 30, 2018
57
Here's how this works.

The people who make stuff aren't usually the best at selling stuff. They usually need those who specialise in selling to promote their stuff.

The guys who specialise in selling and promotion don't want to work for free as they have families and stuff, pesky I know but that's life.

Businesses need to make profit whatever they do so they can earn money to cover the times when they might not be making money and still need to pay things like staff and rent and electricity and stuff to function

Anyone need more explanation? Business isn't hard.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,761
Was just about to post this. Would love to see Valve just reduce their ludicrous cut, especially given that they could and likely do charge for feature spots on the storefront.

Markup that high makes sense in brick and mortar stores, but in a digital storefront it seems excessive.
Valve doesn't charge for ad space - it never has, and as per all previous discussion at dev days, they never will.
Valve also doesn't have any royalty fees for retail / digital games and takes a 0% cut of retail and third party store games sales.
None of these are things the console vendors do

In consideration of all the things they do and provide developers consistently year over year, their 30% cut is justified.
As per Valve's post, there is now stronger recognition and lower cut for those big successful games, driving significant new user growth to Steam and user engagement, in turn driving discovery and sales of all manner of other games (including Indies)

This is a default lower cut than any of the console vendors by a significant margin.
 

Jarate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
This wasn't made to help indie developers, this was made to convince gigantic companies to keep releasing their games on steam, and also try to convince companies that never released their F2P games on steam due to the cut profit they would have.

Indie Devs still get the industry standard for every other platform. If the companies want pure profit, they can still release their games with their own website of publisher. It's not like Valve is stopping them from doing that. You go to Valve because they have a gigantic playerbase, and a server infrastructure that cuts down on the costs of development.