Valve requesting sexual content be censored in Steam games, or they'll be removed
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Consumer protection and content curation are so very very different to any matters dealing with pornography. Their lackadaisical curation attitude might have been an excuse that wasn't going to hold up under any significant examination, so they're now dealing with it. Currently just speculation on my part, but it would make sense.
I don’t agree with Valve on this, but it is their store and they can choose what they want to sell.
I think the general negative attitude towards sex and nudity in video games needs to change; this stuff is inevitably going to show up more and more as games (and those who play them) continue to mature.
I think the general negative attitude towards sex and nudity in video games needs to change; this stuff is inevitably going to show up more and more as games (and those who play them) continue to mature.
MusclesAreGirly
Can you actually respond to the question?
Can you legitimately not understand the difference between women in real life looking young and girls in an anime porn game being intentionally drawn to look young and being put in sexually suggestive and/or explicit scenarios?
You insist on defending the anime porn game by just posting single tweets of an Asian woman that looks young wearing clothes sat down. Which has no actual bearing on the posts you're responding to.
Can you actually respond to the question?
Can you legitimately not understand the difference between women in real life looking young and girls in an anime porn game being intentionally drawn to look young and being put in sexually suggestive and/or explicit scenarios?
You insist on defending the anime porn game by just posting single tweets of an Asian woman that looks young wearing clothes sat down. Which has no actual bearing on the posts you're responding to.
Ok, I see where you're coming from, and I kind of agree. I still think the argument is far from bullshit in itself. There is a double standard applied.
But then again this whole topic seem to have multiple issues intertwined and as such is hard to follow, so I may be out.
I can see the point you’re trying to make, but I don’t necessarily agree with it. I believe that pushing buttons is way more detached than masturbating. Like, infinitely more.
pictureofasiangirlwhoisintentionallydressedtolooklikeachild.jpg
If Valve wasn't an American company, I could understand this. Seeing as they are, there'd be no legal ramifications even if they allowed racier games on Steam. Pretty much the only thing that might get you in trouble legally is bestiality, something that was removed from the VN Subahibi which is available on Steam.
Man, does that mean that there's no chance in hell that the Dragon Knight games will come to Steam?
I get the feeling you're talking about me and other posters making posts like mine.
For one:
1. I think pedophilia is disgusting and has more to do with sadism than sexuality
2. People who hurt children are disgusting
3. I would never defend pedophilia or child porn. In fact I am very disgusted by the fact Amir0x was caught with it.
(Also he kind of upset me when he attacked bronies/male/adult My Little Pony fans, but that's beside the point)
Being a moe otaku and "fujoshi"(I don't like to think I'm rotten) alike is a part of my identity. The underlying aesthetics are part of my motivations in life. And I am very attached to the subject.
There is NO WAY I would be as passionate as I am about Final Fantasy XIV, Tera, Blade and Soul, Touhou Project, VRChat, and so forth, if it weren't for the moe factor. Those are the aesthetics I'm drawn to and motivate me. I don't think it takes a genius detective to figure out the unifying factor between all of these games that draws me to them.
So considering how important they are to me, of course I'm going to feel a little bit defensive. It's a part of who I am.
First of all, the developer actively provides the means for and incentives gratuitous violence OUTSIDE of the context of the main story.
Not only that, but the police system doesn’t deter violence, it escalates it. The intensity of the action against progressively aggressive “law enforcement” is part of the positive feedback loop, because again, violence is fun. Violence is the draw of the game. The fact that the “penalty” for dying or being caught is so minimal should hammer that point. you never die, you wake up in a hospital with a negligible penalty . It’s actually better to commit ‘suicide’ by cop than to get arrested, because you keep your guns (so that you can quickly go do more violence)
Context is virtually non existent in the majority of anyone’s time spent in a GTA game. There’s no reason provided for why you can carjack grandma, blow her brains out, and continue on like nothing happened other than the game is designed around the notion that this is enjoyable. There’s nothing better than having 5 Stars and massive arsenal.
So a brief mention that he thinks a life of crime is bad writes off the thousands of people that he’ll murder without hesitation before the credits roll?
So if I make a sex game about a guy who says he regrets his sex addiction, it should get a pass for it gratuitous depictions of sex?
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It's pretty hilarious to watch them dodge the issue, to be honest.
We all know the truth.
For this to happen we need to get to a time where the majority of the gaming community doesn't refer to "sex" as "well these women are candidly clad." Sexuality beyond depictions of traditional heterosexuality are still very rare in video games, an earnest attempt to say something about sexuality is as well. Do any of the games in question seem like genuine attempts from their creators to actually talk about sexuality, or are they just more excuses for blatant cheesecake objectification first and foremost? That's what the first step of this discussion should be.
That thread was an embarrassment, so many "Lol they're games man" and "it's just pixels on a screen, grow up" type comments
So when can Valve explain themselves? I mean it would look much better if they did explain that the reason is they are removing pedo loli shit.
I don't get why they are staying silent on it.
I don't get why they are staying silent on it.
Well...
The violent videogame is real and the dick holding is in your head.
Not even a horny teenager would fap to a videogame when he can see everything (even perverse animes and worse) by simply googling or tubing.
You're defending pedophilia...
It's not mandatory to go out and casually murder civilians, only the ones you're after.
It isn't porn, eh? That screenshot begs to differ.
There's a big difference between anyone who enjoys dressing up cute or those pictures you keep posting where the person in them is presumably known to be whatever age they are, and then any examples of games that legit feature minors and want to go and depict very sexualized content or straight up sex scenes.
I don't think anyone is attacking you for wanting to look cute or youthful, but they might be getting frustrated if yourself or anyone else can't even condemn content where it is legitimately minors and sexualization.
I also stated you could handle high school relationships in a game, but it doesn't need to feature full-on nudity and sex depicting said minors in such acts.
Apparently Kindred Spirits is according to the poster on the other page (it sounds interesting reading up on it but I haven't played it). Can't say about anything else since I haven't played any of the ones mentioned.
User Banned (Permanent): Defending the sexualization of minors, history of similar behaviour.
The only difference between is that one is fictional, and one is real.
The characters are drawn that way because either the author exclusively finds that body type attractive, and doesn't find or is capable of attraction to other body types, or is making it to sell to people who find that body type attractive.
But either way, people who look like that who are adults capable of consent do exist. And often are sexual beings, just as adults in general are.
bullshit
when you're shooting someone in counter strike you're not fantasizing about actually shooting someone as if it were real (hopefully).
when you're jerking it to a character you're probably imagining it as real as you can, and likely climaxing to it which is a hell of a lot more personal than fragging other players with your friends
violent games do get banned too, especially in Australia. Even the original Left 4 Dead 2 was banned.
It can be argued under-age minors (even if animated) in sexual/relationship games are pretty dubious territory legally, especially for an American company, but I think more likely is the implication of a someone like PayPal putting the screws on Valve. Their TOS states that
*shrugs*
There’s a stark difference between shooting NPCs in a video game and jerking off to nude NPCs modeled to look like children (and in some cases are children). One is violent, sure. But the other is fucking pedophelia. As far as any rational person is concerned, there’s no argument there.
First they came for the 1000 year ol dragon loli, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not into anime.
That might be the case, though honestly if another company was going to lean on them I would hope it would be over predatory business practices in game monetization (something Apple's already had to deal with, and a bigger issue for Paypal considering large chargebacks) rather than sexual content, particularly with the current climate regarding lootbox games. (Then again, Valve were the ones who basically created the lootbox market...)
Not sure about Kindred Spirits, but I'm usually shaky on calling eroge with like 1 or 2 scenes of nudity porn, especially when they're massive 100+ hour stories. Like, who's playing this stuff to jack off when it's 0.0000001% of the game?
It is not a request when it's an "or else" ultimatum. A month isn't very generous either. I expect some smaller devs will not manage with the 'given' timeframe.
Other than that, the response is appropriately 'murican. We'll sell you glorified violence to a nauseating degree, but we draw the line at an animated sideboob.
Other than that, the response is appropriately 'murican. We'll sell you glorified violence to a nauseating degree, but we draw the line at an animated sideboob.
The real horror story of this news is that it was asked to be removed due to customer reports, and Steam users report games just because they think they look shitty.
And yet, there will probably be no Dev Days this year.
And yet, there will probably be no Dev Days this year.
Wait, so even talking about sex in your game is grounds for dismissal?
Not sure offhand, I don't play a lot of games with a lot of sex in them. I have heard Mass Effect does, but I'm not a big WRPG person.
Hey, you two. Food for thought for both of you. Ain't that awful when "supposedly young looking person" which is just like that due to "shape and size" gets shit cause people assume that "waaa haaa only schoolgalz look like that you sick bastard"? Many times women from erotica industry (for example) are shamed by ignorant "consumers" due to their perception, whith retarded comments like "aint she a schoolgirl" "kek this is so illegal" "flat kid" etc.
Anyway the worst story i ever heard, some woman (with tiny build and look, yeah) really considered that all her boyfriends latent pedos who only were in relationships with her due to how she looks. Now this is damn insulting (unless it was how she believed, but what the hell, considering that all men were interested in her "because of that" is some asshole shitfuckery AND very low esteem, too).
You are getting off to sexualised images of underage looking characters. Please seek help
So that's a no. You actually can't understand the difference between a woman that looks young and a character intentionally drawn to resemble a child and being put in sexually explicit scenarios.
Pretty disturbing, honestly.
PayPal have been anti-sex/nudity/sex-worker for over a decade now. It's scary that they're so large and have so much negative influence.
You know what 'that type of body type' is?
The body type of a child.
I sincerely hope you have no children around you in real life. I wouldn't trust you for one second.
GTA at no point encourages you to pull out your gun and start shooting civilians without any context, I implore you to link the scene that does that. Yes violence exists outside the main story from hunting animals to various plotlines that involve you shooting more faceless goons, I said as much already.
It's a deterrent against the player. A few cop cars, fine, a helicopter and a ton of police cars showing up and shooting at you? Not very fun in practice. The player isn't super human, they die INCREDIBLY quickly and slower than molasses compared to a game like say Infamous where there's a plot line that literally encourages you to kill civilians in order to get more exp and no one can do anything about it because you're a super villain power fantasy.
Again, this is all literally dependent on the player themselves. In the moments where violence is literally forced upon you, there's context provided. And no, you can't carjack grandma, blow her brains out, and continue on like nothing happened, if you do that someone calls the police, if you resist more police show up and kill you. The game acknowledges the context of "the player is currently committing a crime." There are literal memes about the aggressiveness of the police:
Literally none of my therapists think I'm a pedophile, because I'm not attracted to children. I can't remember the last time I was attracted to a child. When I was a dumb 13 year old I was attracted to someone as young as 9. That was pretty gross, actually, but I was a dumb teenager who didn't have the morals to realize that was wrong, yet. And I was attracted to several 17 year olds as a 19 year old. Since then, I dunno. Doesn't seem to have happened.
If anything, before I got into 2D like I am now, I had several obsessive celebrity crushes on several Japanese and Korean celebrities. If there's anything I feel in terms of real life attraction, attraction to 3D, it would be the problematic Asian attractions I've been dealing with for years and years now. The chances of someone dating an "Asian fetish" or whatever I am that's problematic, are low. What's nice about 2D is that it's such an escape. I won't lie, I do have problematic attractions. But the problem is pedo, I'm not that. The problem is racist attractions I struggle with.
Literally what my therapists always tell me is that I worry too much what others think.
It doesn't matter if it's 0.00001% of the game. There shouldn't be graphic scenes of a sexual nature with characters below a pretty standard legal age of consent (16). Even then 16 is often the legal age of consent for a private relationship, for any sort of broadcasting of said relationships whether porn, or softcore acting, it needs to be 18 in most countries.
Sure but you called psychology on this and as a psychologist im of the opinion that your ideas are just based on a misunderstood picture of how human conduct and personality is built.
You keep calling playing videogames pushing buttons, but i would urge you to think of this more. How many people do you know that feel nostalgia over something they have masturbated to? How many people do you know that have cried out of sadness over a porn video? A large chunk of videogames are far more impactfull on an individuals identity than what someone uses to masturbate and therefore, one takes far more time in being selective about it. Why do some people like some genres of games and not others? Why do some people like a style of music in their games? Do they like action combat or turn based gameplay? Games are far more complex in nature and therefore require far more characteristics of an individual taken into consideration when the game is being selected.
Meanwhile, someone goes to pornhub, googles their fetish, looks at the one with a decent like to dislike ratio and views and wanks one off in 5 minutes,
See the difference?
Its simply a matter of investment.
No, he's not defending pedophilia and he's right. Teens have sex irl, that's a fact. And at least here, they have sex far earlier than when I was their age. I don't know if that's cause for concern, but it sure seems more relevant than teens having sex in fiction works.
Also, that screenshot doesn't prove that the game is porn. Would you categorize any movie with sex and nudes as porn?.
I don't know what's more worrisome, people who don't condemn pedophilia or people who think that the pleasure of doing violent acts in videogames is more acceptable.
I hope the society can reach a point in the future when all acts of damaging other human beings are seen as unacceptable, but the road will be long and hard.
I mean, I can play the most violent game in the world and be totally fine, while being greatly repulsed by any pedo thing, hentai or not, but both things are equally bad.
About the general sexual content in games, sex is beautiful, more beautiful (and far more useful) than violence, so I can't ever agree with mature sex censoring.
I hope the society can reach a point in the future when all acts of damaging other human beings are seen as unacceptable, but the road will be long and hard.
I mean, I can play the most violent game in the world and be totally fine, while being greatly repulsed by any pedo thing, hentai or not, but both things are equally bad.
About the general sexual content in games, sex is beautiful, more beautiful (and far more useful) than violence, so I can't ever agree with mature sex censoring.
But that’s not my argument. There’s a social dynamic where depicting a person being sexually active is more vilified than depicting actual acts of villainy.
Yeah pedophelia is abhorrent and indefensible. but, why is a pornographic depiction of adults consentually having sex bad while gun porn literally dominates the entertainment industry? That can’t be explained away by “we give the shooters a backstory”
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The bolded screams 'red flag' to me
Where do you draw the line though? Like, are bodies of any age acceptable to you as long as it's drawings only and it's being made by and for people who like that kind of thing?
I think most people would say that's not really ok and those people need to get help
I don't mean to attack you but is there a line where you say, "yeah that's too much" and if so how do you decide where that line is, both you personally and the devs of these games?
We were talking about the distinction between anime characters intentionally drawn to look like children and being put in sexually explicit scenes, and women that look young.
The fact that the difference went straight past you and you instinctively went to defend the latter to protect the former is genuinely concerning to me.
That's essentially the problem right there. Anime art style, in its most popular form, has very little nuance when it comes to depicting age outside of the most extreme cases. You essentially have 5 stages: Baby, young child, teenager/young adult, middle aged and old person. The problem is that there's a lot of contention over the teenager/young adult category because it's pretty hard to visually distinguish one from the other, so to some people even young adults will look "offensive" (don't really have a better word for it) even if there's nothing actually wrong with their age.
In my opinion, that's why some people have no trouble with the hunnypop fairy design, while others find it problematic.
Of course, this excludes characters who obviously looks underage like Kanna from Maid Dragon for example. I think everyone will agree that sexualizing those designs is a problem.
It has definitely become less realistic and more stylized over the years, that's for sure.
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