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Valve Time: Artifact getting beta on October 50 (November 19). Free copies for PAX and TI attendees
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this game was destined to be review bombed the day they altered the text on that card with racist connotations
but dota 2 is the least casual friendly game i've ever played and valve seems to treat it well
Grinding rewards is what makes these games appealing to people who want to play for free. Unless i start the game with every card this is a shit thing.
The game costs 20$ to begin with, people who want to play for free literally can't do it either way. This game isn't meant for those people.
Regardless, valve literally can't give out boosters for playing like other card games do because that would completely kill the economy.
$20 entry to get a few decks is fine but literally giving nobody a way to grind a lot of it will make a LOT of people not want to play the game. People are already invested in 1,2,3+ online card games.
It would drive the prices down, which is bad for the players because ?
Because the players are also the ones selling the cards?
i'm sure valve is aware of that. They aren't really trying to capture the casual hearthstone audience and moreso the people who usually play and trade physical card games, i think.
Of course we'll have to see how this is gonna work out, but i for one love the idea.
Theres way to grind. Theres arena like mode that locked by paywall doing well at those give you reward. Its behind paywall but they promised to give free ticket quite often. so the advice is.. just do well for those free chance? which tbh still sounding enraging. Also just buying the game give you 5 ticket for that gauntlet mode.
Free booster would drive the price of all cards down on the market, making it even less expensive to build the deck they want from the market.
I see only 2 looser in this :
-player who want to stop playing the game ( even then, it might not change things much, depending on how much some cards would still end up loosing value over the years even without free boosters )
-valve ( if they can't find ways to keep paid booster interesting )
The fact your own cards have less value has no negative impact on "trading" since the cards you want to buy from sellings your cards should have lost as much value as yours did.
Keeping in mind that even in a perfect market where cards keep their value ( with no fluctuation from meta change, new cards release etc... ), your collection will loose some of it's value each time you ""trade"" from the steam market, since Valve takes a cut in each transaction.
I haven't played Hearthstone in almost a year and pumped like €200 into it. Guess what, I'm not getting a single cent again so I think I prefer Valve's approach here even with the cards losing value over time.
Neato, thanks.
Seems like it's better to just play phantom if you don't care about your collection, unless there will be cards that go for a ton on the marketplace.
Do we know how much event tickets cost? And can we sell packs on the market place or only singles?
Edit: I think I found that tickets are 99 cents. So if you can sell packs, can probably get 25+ drafts out of the main purchase (not sure how much the cards that come in the starter deck will go for). If you're decent enough you can probably stretch that for a good while!
Event tickets come in bundles of 5 for $4.95 (not sure what that price is in other regions). You also get five when you purchase the game. And they have said there will be events where they give out free tickets.
You can only sell single cards, I believe.
Valve I'm sure expects the player population to be smaller. They are betting on it making more money for them than the other models.
Reddit is all up in arms, it's like they didn't know what this will be about.
The only true scummy thing we got is that mmr matchmaking which only screws a very small percentage of players who could go "infinite". Even then it depends on the range. Might be just a way to protect newbies.
This is only a prediction but I expect cards to be pretty cheap(don't buy anything in the first few weeks), only rares present in meta decks might climb in price and be moderately costly.
Your cards will always lose value since the supply is ever growing.
I expect this game to be much cheaper than Hearthstone since you don't have to gamble to finish your collection.
The only true scummy thing we got is that mmr matchmaking which only screws a very small percentage of players who could go "infinite". Even then it depends on the range. Might be just a way to protect newbies.
The only economy is the steam market. The biggest advantage is that you can buy individual cards, so if you need those two rares to finish your deck you don't need to buy 30 packs to hope to get them.
This is only a prediction but I expect cards to be pretty cheap(don't buy anything in the first few weeks), only rares present in meta decks might climb in price and be moderately costly.
Your cards will always lose value since the supply is ever growing.
I expect this game to be much cheaper than Hearthstone since you don't have to gamble to finish your collection.
I don't remember ever saying that the game should do things like Hearthstone, and not allow players to sell their cards thought.
The original question was, what's bad about driving the economy down by allowing players to get cards by playing ? The answer I got was that the player are themselves the people who sell those cards.
From my point of views, it does not make much of a downside because like I said :
- it mean you can get the cards you want on the steam market, for a lower price
- you also got cards by playing, meaning you inherently need to buy less cards and/or have more cards to trade
- cards lower value equaly benefit you when you buy them on the market as it is a loss when you sell yours. Meaning you would still need to sell the same amount of cards on the market to buy a given card regardless of being able to win cards or not.
The only case where it might negatively impact you is when you stop playing and sell you entire collection.
I say might because we don't know how much your cards would loss value compared to what money was saved by :
- getting free cards in the first place
- having spent less money on booster pack since buying cards on the market was giving you even better deals
I personally prefer this model as I hate the f2p grind in card games. I always feel forced to buy packs and never feel like I've gotten my money's worth when I do spend money. Being able to straight up buy the cards I need\want is very nice.
That said this is a very surprising model for Valve largely because they are known for being more consumer friendly. This is objectively the worst business model they've ever employed for a game. I think that's what tripping me up. They could have really broken the mold here and made a splash, but they chose not to. They've done an okay job explaining why they think this is better than f2p card games, but haven't even tried justifying it versus their other models like CSGO and Dota. Largely because they can't.
There are going to be a lot of people who are straight up cut off from this game due to the economic model. Rich people will have a very different experience with the game than poor people. And honestly that fucking sucks. Even if you can afford to play you should be mad on behalf of the people who won't get a chance. It's shrinking the playerbase and I'm sure the community will miss out on a lot of cool moments because of it.
That said this is a very surprising model for Valve largely because they are known for being more consumer friendly. This is objectively the worst business model they've ever employed for a game. I think that's what tripping me up. They could have really broken the mold here and made a splash, but they chose not to. They've done an okay job explaining why they think this is better than f2p card games, but haven't even tried justifying it versus their other models like CSGO and Dota. Largely because they can't.
There are going to be a lot of people who are straight up cut off from this game due to the economic model. Rich people will have a very different experience with the game than poor people. And honestly that fucking sucks. Even if you can afford to play you should be mad on behalf of the people who won't get a chance. It's shrinking the playerbase and I'm sure the community will miss out on a lot of cool moments because of it.
Bumping this now that the tournament is over. Very entertaining match -- the best Artifact gameplay that has been released so far. It really showcases how important deployments are.
Another match I enjoyed watching was Joel Larsson vs KuroKy in the Top 8. It's a good showcase of aggro vs midrange/control and their different game plans. Larsson demonstrates a good way to beat blue interaction is to simply play away from Blue heroes.
Catching up on the tourny has totally sold me on Draft. I hope it is like MtG Friday Night Magic or Pre Release where a casual draft can occur and it's not too hardcore. I reallt don't mind paying a few bucks a week to play a draft during some downtime.
That's the one that confuses me. Double entry fee. Maybe someone more experienced with CCGs will be able to tell me if that's the norm at physical tables.
I guess the idea is that you pay for the option to select specific cards out of "your" packs, rather than just the random packs. It seems kinda weird still though, seems a lot more efficient to just do 2phantom drafts and buy the packs separately than do a keeper draft, because if you get good RNG/are skilled the phantom drafts will give better rewards, and 2 tries is better to edge out bad RNG.
Overall I'm still not really convinced by the system. I don't think it's too expensive or anything, seems pretty cheap even, it's just I'm not sure I want to spend money on it. I'll wait until it releases and see how the market works out. It's easy too since there's no preorder incentive.
I have seen many people jumping through hoops of mental gymnastics to justify this game's piss poor monetary system.
No trading. Cards locked behind loot boxes(with god awful rates if CSGO is an example to go by). No rank for normal constructed. Official draft modes require payment every single time.
There's a reason why CSGO moved from the 1.6 pub servers to official rank modes and if players expect custom free draft tournaments in Artifact to be any good and competitive, they will be disappointed.
No trading. Cards locked behind loot boxes(with god awful rates if CSGO is an example to go by). No rank for normal constructed. Official draft modes require payment every single time.
There's a reason why CSGO moved from the 1.6 pub servers to official rank modes and if players expect custom free draft tournaments in Artifact to be any good and competitive, they will be disappointed.
looks like no T.T
they already said you can get free drafts
Here's what I don't get about this statement: you are unhappy that official draft modes require payment but are also not expecting free drafts to be good and competitive. So what do you want -- entry fee or free? You are criticizing both.
Will you need to put in money occasionally to play this game seriously? Yes but I don't think it's going to be as much as people think. You could never win a game and draft every day of the month for $30. If you win even a little bit that cost is going to go down. I pay $15 every week for 1 MTG paper draft.
I won't absolve Valve completely. I think an LCG model is the most consumer friendly but let's face it -- no digital card game uses that model.
Community created drafts are limited. You won't get the same player pool. It's more of a friends and family draft.
I am not against paying a fee to play an official draft mode as long as I can earn the said fee in-game as well as paying real cash. Right now you need 3 wins to recover the dollar spent and there is no other way to play draft other than paying cash.
The monetization of this game is just all around wack. Pay 20$ so you can pay to play game modes and no trading so you gotta get ripped off by valve's 15% tax. It's payment every single corner.
EDIT: Also keep in mind that 5 wins would be the end of the draft and you need 3 wins to get your dollar back.
It's the number being quoted on Reddit.
I don't know if there's an official number yet. But just look at CSGO and DOTA2. It's the 5% steam transaction fee plus 10% CSGO or DOTA2 fee. Don't see how Artifact is gonna be any different.
A lot of the cards are going to be lowest possible price 3 cents.
In that scenario Valve gets 66%
I'm not sure how much the rares are going to be - which is the big question.
CSGO also have tons of garbage that goes for 0.03. I imagine it's gonna be the same for artifact where the starter decks' cards have absolute trash value on the market and cards that are essential to decks will have high prices.
Unlike CSGO, you can't profit by trading items and you are therefore forced to either buy good cards or suck it up and run an inferior deck.
Anyone else planning on dumping their 10 included packs worth of cards in the market very soon after launch? I figure that the average value of a given pack will only go down over time. I might get unlucky and dump a meta defining card but I guess with closed beta bwing online since a while now the in demand cards are already known.
Yeah I'll probably be keeper drafting at the start but I may unload the top tier cards that will be in high demand (and therefore price) like Axe, Drow, Time of Triumph, Annihilation. Their value will certainly go down over time although I don't think anyone knows how long that will take and how substantial it will be. The first week is going to have huge swings as the market hones in.
Haha don't forget people looking to corner the market
Lotta Steam traders going to buy thousands worth
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