Man, having more black and Latinx people in CS would stop a lot of problems before they started.
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Valve's Artifact Card "Crack the Whip" [Update: card name changed to Coordinated Assault]
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Each hero and spell is one of 4 colors. To play a spell in a lane you need a corresponding hero of that coloured
Here's the updated card
new card is 100,000x better than the first
what a win for team "normal folk"
Good on them for having changed it, but them not even realizing something could be wrong about the whole concept says a lot about some people at Valve.
Seems like something easy to get missed when creating hundreds of cards for a game like this. Honest mistake. Hopefully the previous artwork can be used elsewhere, the Kobold Foreman is a cool monster.
Good on Valve for changing it, though, and the new artwork is badass.
Good on Valve for changing it, though, and the new artwork is badass.
https://artifact.gamepedia.com/Cards#Colours
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Black- Black cards are assassins. They focus on slaying enemy heroes and capitalizing on the gold gain to snowball their early lead.
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Red- Red cards are comprised of aggressive, well stated units that aim to crush the opponent in the early game. However, their spells cards are weaker than other colors as a drawback.
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Green- Green is the support set of cards, summoning creatures and buffing them to overwhelm the opponent.
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Blue- Blue is the control color. With weak heroes that become stronger later, they make up for it with big and flashy spells that wipe boards clean.
"SORRY, NO CRITICISM ALLOWED"
Imagine if we applied this logic to other things, like, say - criticism of video games. I can't imagine this forum would be particularly active..
Probably because most of the people working on it and have been playing magic for 20+ years. When i see black hero my mind immediately goes to style of black that is represented in almost every TCG that started with Magic not an actual black man. I don't get what the fuss is on any of this coming from a TCG player.
Even without context, the new card looks way better!Here's the updated card
Shitting on the staff is probably against TOS come to think of it.
There are other forums that tolerate racist bullshit, and you are free to request a permaban here and go there.
Yeah, I understand that it's a fucked up situation but some of the implications that people are making about Valve and its employees intentionally being racist or having racist ideations they hide as easter eggs in their games is wild. Let's just leave it at a lack of diversity among the staff which is damning enough.
Utterly unfortunate wording aside, The original artwork is damn good. I hope they reuse it for a red card sometime down the line.
Well, I'm not sure I would consider this without the context of the other card but their example of a "black" hero is a dude with a collar and chains hanging off of him.
While I get what people are saying and am sympathetic, you're talking about a classic fantasy trope (black = death/necromancy) and a well established design archetype (Magic the Gathering colors/domains). While you can force an association here, it is not the explicit or even implicit meaning. It's a liche, an undead skeleton/ghost monster, and the black color has everything to do with the fantasy trope and nothing to do with black people.
Could you campaign to have it changed? Yeah, sure. You'll have an uphill battle though, and one that would have to address the entire fantasy genre with its "green = nature, black = death, etc" associations.
I think going after explicit associations, accidental or intentional, such as the "Crack the Whip" card is a more effective use of effort.
Well, like I said I doubt the association would have been made without their original card creating it. Glad to see they're just making a fantastically accurate game here.
understandable, but in this case the dota hero has long had that look and was retrofitted into the card game into the faction where his playstyle fits best - black
i think this one feels like a stretch, and wouldn't have been considered without the blunder that started the conversation
Good to see they changed the card. The absurdity of the original was good for a quick laugh, but goddamn, c'mon.Here's the updated card
Goddamn, came into the thread expecting an overreaction just based off the name "crack the whip" but "modify a black hero" what the fuck? This card had to have been seen by 50+ people before the public saw it, how did no one catch it?
What made you like this? If you play a video game and don't like a small thing about it, do you think it's the worst game ever and must stop playing it? Why is everything so black & white with you? You can still like and agree with many things about something whilst also having some criticism of it.
I happen to think one instance in this thread steps over the line in what is fair moderation. I'm not shitting on the staff at all, most of the time - the decisions here are right I think. It's just there is a small percentage that don't sit well with me. In some cases, there's no benefit of the doubt afforded - no room for someone to misunderstand the point of a thread or an argument - just jumping straight to moderation actions for not getting it as immediately as other people do or in the same way.
I don't know why you keep bringing up video games. Very confused as to why you think it's relevant to our discussion.
If you want to bring up nuance in moderation, that's encouraged and you should PM a mod with your thoughts. In my experiences they have been very forthcoming in private discussions about their decisions and have even altered them after we talk in some cases.
Calling it authoritarian is that type of dumb black & white nonsense you are talking about.
Im not a TCG player so im not knowledgable on some of the rules. But i kinda think someone new getting into Artifact would find it questionable. The card definately looks better now though.
Have you ever heard of an analogy? I thought given your all or nothing 'if you don't love everything about this place, you can leave' attitude - you'd need help understanding that some people can criticise things they like. A reasonable response to criticism isn't 'ok, stop using it then', just like a reasonable response to a small amount of criticism a game isn't 'ok, stop playing it then'.
If the community doesn't like discussion of moderation reasons, they shouldn't publicly announce those reasons (in the warn or ban messages visible on posts) - or at least tag them with the name of the moderator if transparency is the concern there.
The issue with the original card (the one the thread is about) is that the name and description, together, are a very unfortunate combination, "cracking whips at black heroes".
Meanwhile, with the Lich, i do believe that an "undead spirit in chains who performs black magic" is sufficiently removed from any racial / historic undertones. So i don't think these two instances are all that compareable.
Glad they changed the picture. The flavor of the kobolds or the implied inhumanity and nefariousness of black decks didn't feel right with the new name.Here's the updated card
I personally liked the idea of keeping the old picture and renaming it to cruel efficiency, But that picture most likely will be used with a kobold foreman specific card. They already paid an artist for it and it would be a waste to get rid of it entirely.
New art looks great.
I mean, Valve themselves responded fairly quickly on this issue, so I don't see who you're trying to defend here.
Well, if you're tolerant of prejudice and like to make fun of users for getting offended at things with blatantly racist overtones, then yeah, you will not have a good time here. This is a fairly left forum.
I mean, Valve themselves responded fairly quickly on this issue, so I don't see who you're trying to defend here.
What have I said to suggest I'm any of those things, or where have I made fun of users being offended at anything? Can you back up these claims?
The one instance of moderation in this thread I had an issue with was moderated for doing neither of those things.
Those are pretty strong accusations against me, so I'd actually really appreciate a reply.
If you do not want to be lumped in with defending racism, then you should clarify what exactly you are having an issue with instead of throwing out a blanket accusation of moddin' dirty when all of the bans have been to diet racist posts.
You could have quoted the post that you took issue with. You didn't. I'm not calling you a racist. I'm saying that by not clarifying the specific post you take issues with, the things you are defending are racist, no matter what your actual MO is.
Correct. Anyone who has a bad idea should be condemned forever.
This makes their original fuck up even WORSE. If black cards are assassins, then why would there be a theme of cracking a whip on them anyway? This is never a thing in fiction. Why would assassins (or mercs for hire) need a fat slaver to "crack a whip"?
Someone inside of valve thought they were funny.
You know, I came into this thread thinking what's wrong with naming a card like that, then I saw the text on the card. The hilarity in its absurdity ensued.
Coming in here I was prepared to complain about people making a big stink out of nothing...and then I read the card description. yeeeesh....