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Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
No point with steam input.
The point would be steam controller alternatives with the track pad and maybe more features than current base Steam Controller 1. Not normal dual analog console controllers, but steam controllers made by other companies, especially since Valve isn't too focused on hardware unless their employees are very interested in it, like VR currently.

I want to label dual analog controllers as factually inferior, but I'll leave it at IMO since some people can't seem to get used to it. Similarly some probably gave up on dual analog, though games didn't continue to have a option for anti dual analog people to run to so they couldn't adjust.

I'm sure the below picture was correct because on top of it being new, it probably didn't have a good dose of aim assist.
dQy45Js.png


I do think Valve made sure all current modern controllers work with Steam Input to wipe their hands with Steam Controller though. Very unfortunate, and I hope some other company makes a replacement with their own stand along config profiler, like the game profilers before Steam Input (I used them all the time).

Steam input requiring overlay to get the controller working in some games was unnecessary. It should have been a option since you can edit configs in normal steam mode if you needed. Sure you'd have to alt+tab but at least you could solve overlay conflicts like Rivatunner, or other launcher overlays. That stuff was a headache for early Steam Input. Trying to get it to work with Origin games and now Windows Store stuff without GloSC.
 
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Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
That image should be a reminder that controllers, and the layouts common today have rarely been intuitive. They've all required a learning curve, both for the player, and the developers to find it. It took several years for First-Person Shooters to play well-enough on consoles. It took years of control layout iterations, and several in-game design decisions that hid its flaws (several forms of aim assist, constraint most of the action to the horizontal plane and forward, slow down movement, etc.). It also took several years of playing with a controller for it to feel natural to you. You hand a controller to someone who isn't used to it, and they fumble around trying to move their camera and walk at the same time.

Even the Mouse wasn't immediately accepted when it became more common in games. Players were used to using their keyboards only, and something like Mouse-look felt strange.

As far as I'm concerned, the right analog stick is vastly worse than both a Mouse and the Steam controller's pads for the majority of applications, and especially the most common ones. To make matters worse, the analog stick requires design compromises to make it feel good, most notably in the case of First-Person games.
 
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Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,996
Oh you can get them IN. Have fun getting them out, though... I use the Ikea ones that are basically rebranded Eneloops but much cheaper (they are made at the same factory) and they have the size issue too.
I use Fujitsu-branded Eneloops and while they're a little snug to fit, there are no issues removing them from the controller.
Are you aware that there's a lever mechanism to eject the batteries?

 
Oct 25, 2017
9,872
After a few more days with this thing:
* The pads are amazing
* The triggers are great
* The shoulder bumpers are bad
* The start and select buttons are a crime

Also I'd rather have a dpad than an analog stick.
 

jenya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
265
I like it so far, the glossy parts of the controller are weird? The packaging is atrocious, who the hell designed it.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Just got mine in, oh my gosh a well functioning new Y button membrane. I can play Street Fighter V again.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Oh you can get them IN. Have fun getting them out, though... I use the Ikea ones that are basically rebranded Eneloops but much cheaper (they are made at the same factory) and they have the size issue too.

Hah! I thought we were just unlucky in some bizarre way. We use Energizer rechargables, and getting them out is crazy hard sometimes. My wife seems to be able to get the leverage somehow, but I always resort to just pressing the button to nudge them out the socket, and then pry them out with a screwdriver. :/
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,896
Mine turned up today, not had a chance to try them yet. Will take it for a spin with Disco Elysium tomorrow!
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I just replied to someone that felt they would never get used to it after they had just got it. Don't give up, it'll take time if you're interested. Be warned though, with SC being done, it's probably best if you don't get used to it for much. Without this thing I doubt I'd continue playing games like Warframe. My setup makes things a breeze vs mouse and keyboard acrobatics (tedious stuff done with a touch of one or two buttons). It feels like cheating sometimes.

"Imagine if you started dual analog and thought you'd never get used to it and games always provided you an out (a way to play without dual analog). Then you probably would stick with the target lock way of the early one analog days.

Play something familiar, play it often, and maybe start dipping your toe into adjusting sliders. This controller is all about being able to adjust to you. First you have to train your mind to work with that pad, and maybe gyro as well. The gyro stuff is a whole different story though. I personally just have gyro as an assist to fine tuning, but I can go full gyro and I do in special cases in games. Again, I crafted the profiles around me.

This is a old playlist of things to do when starting off.
Mastering the Steam Controller
1: Mastering the Steam Controller "What is the Wii Sports of the Steam Controller to help it click with people"
2: First Person Shooters
3: 2D Platformers
4: Atari Vault
5: RetroArch
6: Dolphin
7: PCSX2
8: DQP Teaches Typing
9: Desktop
10: PUBG

This is something more recent, by ExistentialEgg.
Steam Controller Crash Course - Tutorial - New User Beginner's Guide"
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
I just replied to someone that felt they would never get used to it after they had just got it. Don't give up, it'll take time if you're interested. Be warned though, with SC being done, it's probably best if you don't get used to it for much.

At the risk of being argumentative...

People are complaining about the feel of the controller, but the one we bought for use on the media server (laptop connected to TV) is still going strong after nearly 4 years of every day use, including multiple times slipping from the sofa onto the tile floor. It may feel cheap, but it's held up surprisingly well, and if someone likes the controller enough to want a back-up or spare for parts, Game in the UK and Ebay (US and UK) have them around still. :)
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
At the risk of being argumentative...

People are complaining about the feel of the controller, but the one we bought for use on the media server (laptop connected to TV) is still going strong after nearly 4 years of every day use, including multiple times slipping from the sofa onto the tile floor. It may feel cheap, but it's held up surprisingly well, and if someone likes the controller enough to want a back-up or spare for parts, Game in the UK and Ebay (US and UK) have them around still. :)
That's what I'm going to do if my new one needs to get parts from my old one and eventually need more. I may just preemptively collect at least 2 used controllers if I cross them. I used mine nearly everyday until now (gets to rest in the case I had for it for good now. Can't fix it's gyro drift and analog drift).

The good thing is it's easy to open and change things if you have replacement parts that aren't soldered down. The metal compression cap buttons are just held in by tape, and if something happens to them all you have to do is undo part of the cap's tape until you can lift it up to clean under it. It's sealed off from dust but most likely something happens with the contacts under it. A little alcohol on a cotton swab fix those (usually the grip buttons due to how often they are used).

Google Stadia controller repair is a different beast.
 

zoku88

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,025
I just replied to someone that felt they would never get used to it after they had just got it. Don't give up, it'll take time if you're interested. Be warned though, with SC being done, it's probably best if you don't get used to it for much. Without this thing I doubt I'd continue playing games like Warframe. My setup makes things a breeze vs mouse and keyboard acrobatics (tedious stuff done with a touch of one or two buttons). It feels like cheating sometimes.

"Imagine if you started dual analog and thought you'd never get used to it and games always provided you an out (a way to play without dual analog). Then you probably would stick with the target lock way of the early one analog days.

Play something familiar, play it often, and maybe start dipping your toe into adjusting sliders. This controller is all about being able to adjust to you. First you have to train your mind to work with that pad, and maybe gyro as well. The gyro stuff is a whole different story though. I personally just have gyro as an assist to fine tuning, but I can go full gyro and I do in special cases in games. Again, I crafted the profiles around me.

This is a old playlist of things to do when starting off.
Mastering the Steam Controller
1: Mastering the Steam Controller "What is the Wii Sports of the Steam Controller to help it click with people"
2: First Person Shooters
3: 2D Platformers
4: Atari Vault
5: RetroArch
6: Dolphin
7: PCSX2
8: DQP Teaches Typing
9: Desktop
10: PUBG

This is something more recent, by ExistentialEgg.
Steam Controller Crash Course - Tutorial - New User Beginner's Guide"
Thanks for this. I've had a controller for a while, but never really got good at configuring it for 2D games.
 

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,367
I really wish they would return to that line. Those things were amazing HTPC's but I never ended up getting one before they discontinued. I don't get why they cancel all the best hardware :'(
Looks like the Intel Skull Canyon and NUC stuff is the successor to the Alpha R2 but I am disappointed that it didn't spawn lots of good competitors in this area. I like PC games but never want to own a tower again.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,650
Just received my controller and well, this will surely take a while to get used to. The face buttons are in a position I am not familiar with, causing me to hit the wrong buttons (I keep on hitting B instead of A for example) and the shoulder buttons are really stiff. I also sometimes hit the paddles accidentally and also find it difficult to hit the Start and Select buttons.

It overall just feels really uncomfortable to use
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,996
Looks like the Intel Skull Canyon and NUC stuff is the successor to the Alpha R2 but I am disappointed that it didn't spawn lots of good competitors in this area. I like PC games but never want to own a tower again.
The Alienware Alpha was a smart design, and OEMs like Dell can certainly build a smaller system than is possible with discrete parts, but the problem is that it usually ends up not really being upgradable (despite their intentions) and overpriced.
That kills it for many people when it's so much more expensive than a console. The highest-end Alpha R2 with a GTX 960 was $949 for a system with a $200 GPU!

They could have built something in a similar (but larger) form-factor using modular laptop components like MXM GPUs—and Digital Storm had the "Project Spark" prototype which showcased that—but then NVIDIA discontinued their MXM GPU parts which killed that project. It was intended to use an MXM RTX 2080 but the prototype was using a GTX 1080 which was the highest-end MXM GPU at the time.
Small form-factor PCs are getting really small these days when you consider that they're using off-the-shelf components though.
a4sfx_77tjp2.jpg
sffpc-volume-cgkt6.png


The DAN A4 case is much larger by volume; 7.1L vs 2.2L, but is still very small. That includes an internal power supply though - Alienware "cheated" by using an external brick with the Alpha.
You can go a bit smaller too, if you're willing to compromise and not use a full length GPU.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,743
This controller is too odd for my blood. Couldn't get it to work on Crysis, but the game is a decade old so I'll give it a pass. Definitely want to play an FPS with this but most of them are on my consoles. Tried Spyro and it was...okay. Not bad and I could get use to it thanks to the way the paddles are set up but moving the camera with the trackpad is a bit clunky for me.

The face buttons being in that low position is tripping me out XD
Even though I occasionally use my Xbox, I still find myself having to look down at the controller to make sure I'm pressing the right button.
 

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,692
This controller is too odd for my blood. Couldn't get it to work on Crysis, but the game is a decade old so I'll give it a pass. Definitely want to play an FPS with this but most of them are on my consoles. Tried Spyro and it was...okay. Not bad and I could get use to it thanks to the way the paddles are set up but moving the camera with the trackpad is a bit clunky for me.

The face buttons being in that low position is tripping me out XD
Even though I occasionally use my Xbox, I still find myself having to look down at the controller to make sure I'm pressing the right button.

What issues were you having with Crysis?

As for Spyro, I'd recommend trying a complete Mouse and Keyboard setup. I played through 1 & 2 with one, and I thought it controlled nicely. It even has rumble support no matter what you decide to use. I'm a big fan of 3rd person platfomers w/ mouse for camera.

wcWVRoF.png

(Click to Enlarge)
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
My controller arrived on Monday and I've used it a couple of times since. My early impressions are somewhat good, but obviously I'm going to need to have a lot more time with it to get fully used to it.

However, I now hope even more than ever that a second revision happens. There are so many things that feel like they could be really good if they were just iterated on a tiny bit. The trackpads are fine, and definitely work much better as a couch mouse than a traditional controller, however I still find them a little jittery which can be a little annoying. That might go away after some getting used to it.

The triggers are amazing, and the whole controller feels super comfortable to hold. Shoulder buttons on the other hand feel... odd.
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
414
I have one but I never liked it.

Using touchpad on controllers was never I good idea in my opinion, especially on the VIVE controllers.
They sacrificed a precise analog stick for a circular touchpad. It was never used in any different way with the VIVE.
It was just forcing me to replace the analog stick and move characters and camera with a touchpad.

I can see people using this controller to play RTS games on the couch.
But for me it is mouse or nothing.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
My wife was complaint about how she never plays Sims anymore because she can't stay comfortable at the desktop for super long periods. Been messing around with control stuff on the steam controller and I think I finally got a nice configuration for it that's not too obtuse. I played about an hour. There is definitely a learning curve, but I definitely couldn't imagine trying to play it with a standard controller.

I've been meaning to try GalCiv and civ 6, but those too are games that require hours of time to dedicate that I don't have at the moment.


My biggest issue with the controllers so far is standard controller games. Not because I can't handle only one analogue stick, but rather because the face buttons are tiny and at the maximum reach of my thumb.

Another relatively minor issue is I can't double up my fingers comfortably on the shoulders. It's rare that I play a game where I need to press l1 and l2 at the same time, but I can do so easily on a DS4. It feels bad on the steam controller, like hand starts to cramp.

(Edit) look at how tiny these god damn buttons are compared to the switch pro controller, that and them being about an inch further away than any other controller means it feels awful in character action games (Yakuza, Shenmue, Hitman, etc). I don't play shooters really anymore so I can't comment there.

RRfux14.jpg
 
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Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
Looks like the Intel Skull Canyon and NUC stuff is the successor to the Alpha R2 but I am disappointed that it didn't spawn lots of good competitors in this area. I like PC games but never want to own a tower again.

There's also a cheaper one with an i5/7 and an Radeon 540X but yea I have an obsession with small form factor PC's especially powerful ones and also 'comfy couch' style gaming.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,448
Mine arrived a couple of days ago, although I haven't got around to using it in anger yet. Not sure what a good title to break it in would be!

Edit: Been meaning to start Two Point Hospital sometime, that might not be a bad idea.
 
Dec 25, 2018
1,926
Mine arrived today, once I got it set up played some Portal 2 to ease into it, interesting experience so far, only settings ive had to adjust yet is increasing the right track pad and gyro acceleration and sensitivity for the camera.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Just received my controller and well, this will surely take a while to get used to. The face buttons are in a position I am not familiar with, causing me to hit the wrong buttons (I keep on hitting B instead of A for example) and the shoulder buttons are really stiff. I also sometimes hit the paddles accidentally and also find it difficult to hit the Start and Select buttons.

It overall just feels really uncomfortable to use

It seems you're hitting the buttons after using the touch pad to control the camera? What I do is assign face button important fast gameplay stuff to non face buttons so I never have to move my thumb off of the camera controls. Activators, and action layers make this easy. My Warframe 4 abilities are on L1, R1, (Holding L1) R1, (Holding R1) L1 for example. I also always put jump on a grip button, and dodge on the other grip button whenever possible. Anything related to interacting with people, picking up items, opening doors, etc. I put on the right track pad click button. Reloading gun, menus, maps, I keep on the face button, they don't require urgency during fast gameplay.

I have one but I never liked it.

Using touchpad on controllers was never I good idea in my opinion, especially on the VIVE controllers.
They sacrificed a precise analog stick for a circular touchpad. It was never used in any different way with the VIVE.
It was just forcing me to replace the analog stick and move characters and camera with a touchpad.

I can see people using this controller to play RTS games on the couch.
But for me it is mouse or nothing.
[laughing emojii here]
Precise, so precise it needs aim assist built into the game to compensate for lack of accuracy, and the touchpads are the next best thing down from mouse when accuracy is the goal. With the controller you get the track pad + gyro, so much accuracy, it's like pointing a pencil at text on a chalkboard, you don't even think about it when you have the settings and your preference set (touch pad no gyro assist, TP + gyro assist, gyro assist on TP only when aiming down sights, all gyro no TP).
 
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Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
My controller arrived on Monday and I've used it a couple of times since. My early impressions are somewhat good, but obviously I'm going to need to have a lot more time with it to get fully used to it.

However, I now hope even more than ever that a second revision happens. There are so many things that feel like they could be really good if they were just iterated on a tiny bit. The trackpads are fine, and definitely work much better as a couch mouse than a traditional controller, however I still find them a little jittery which can be a little annoying. That might go away after some getting used to it.

The triggers are amazing, and the whole controller feels super comfortable to hold. Shoulder buttons on the other hand feel... odd.
This is a quote of mine earlier in the thread.
----
Maybe this could help if you haven't tried it yet.

qn1dfUH.jpg

Minimum movement threshold (makes camera movement look choppy but stabilizes human subtle unintentional movements with gyro or touch pad).

"In order to really understand what this setting is doing, I'm going to ask you to max it out, just balls to the wall, and go back into the game. You'll be able to feel exactly what this setting is doing. See I'm moving the controller up and down and you can see there is a lot of movement, a lot of choppy movement for that crosshair. It's jumping maybe 5 or 6 pixels at a time based on my movement. Like I said before, it's not you're putting in a certain amount of movement to move one pixel, you're putting in a certain amount of movement to get to the pixel that you would have gone to had you traversed that space with a 1 to 1 ratio between movement and pixels on the screen. So instead of requireing more movement to move one pixel, you're requiring the same amount of movement to travel the the same amount of pixels, however all of the pixels before you get there are cut off and that's demonstrated on the screen."
 

haxan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
Mine came in and I spent the day fiddling around with it in a variety of games. I went in with no expectations. I had heard mixed things about the controller but I never bothered having an opinion on one myself because, well, I didn't need anymore controllers. But hey, $5 is apparently the price if you want me to impulse buy things I've convinced myself I have no interest in.

After a day, I like it a lot, but this is clearly a controller not suited to every game out there. The customization options are incredible, and it seems like many significant releases have many custom controller profiles, so even if your game isn't perfectly suited to the controller, there's a chance that someone with OCD out there may have figured out a way to make it work. I'm not going to detail the options---it's probably been done to death and there are better salesmen than me, but it's deep.

The controller feels nice in the hands. I like the outwardly protruding grips. I think they may feel more natural than the grips on the PS4 and XBone controllers (remember, this is the honeymoon period). I really like the weigh and feel of the controller. Feels like quality materials, it's light. Your fingers glide over those touchpads like buttah. All the triggers have pretty nice action and the placement seemed suited for me (this will vary from person to person). I did run into two issues with the feel itself:

1. I don't like the face button placement. I think this is what's going to make it unsuitable for a lot of games. I have pretty sizable hands. When you're holding the controller, your right thumb kind of naturally orients or lands on the touch pad. The touch pad is pretty large. To reach the face buttons, you have to pull your thumb down, and reach to the left. I don't mean to make this sound like a terrible chore, but the "reach to the left" side of the equation feels like it includes too much reaching to feel very natural, or comfortably, or repeatable at a very high rate. It's possible I can adjust to this for those fast-paced games where this might be a problem, but I have PS4 and Xbone and whatever controllers all over the place.

2. Not going to waste too many words on this: I don't like the haptics in this in comparison to other controllers. If I had to put a word to it, they kind of feel too mechanical? I dunno, that feels wrong. Anyway, you can customize or turn haptics off so it's no biggie.

Not really a complaint, but a side effect of offering so many customization options: it can be confusing looking at a game's custom control profile and figuring out what the hell is going on, even when comparing it to the controls listed in the game's settings. It would be nice if this could be simplified, but this is probably just the sort of thing you have to learn from experience. There are enough options that making it less confusing would probably leave out too much important info.

Anyway, I hope they do a version 2! If they can conclusively tackle that face button issue, I think everything else is a winner. I feel like they might have to shrink, or readjust, or do something to that exquisite right pad to fix it though, which is kind of a bummer. I think you could sacrifice some size there and not lose anything though.
 

Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
The Alienware Alpha was a smart design, and OEMs like Dell can certainly build a smaller system than is possible with discrete parts, but the problem is that it usually ends up not really being upgradable (despite their intentions) and overpriced.
That kills it for many people when it's so much more expensive than a console. The highest-end Alpha R2 with a GTX 960 was $949 for a system with a $200 GPU!

They could have built something in a similar (but larger) form-factor using modular laptop components like MXM GPUs—and Digital Storm had the "Project Spark" prototype which showcased that—but then NVIDIA discontinued their MXM GPU parts which killed that project. It was intended to use an MXM RTX 2080 but the prototype was using a GTX 1080 which was the highest-end MXM GPU at the time.
Small form-factor PCs are getting really small these days when you consider that they're using off-the-shelf components though.
a4sfx_77tjp2.jpg
sffpc-volume-cgkt6.png


The DAN A4 case is much larger by volume; 7.1L vs 2.2L, but is still very small. That includes an internal power supply though - Alienware "cheated" by using an external brick with the Alpha.
You can go a bit smaller too, if you're willing to compromise and not use a full length GPU.

Problem with mini chasis and a full sized GPU is on top of being an exercise with frustration to build in the case itself tends to be prohibitively expensive (the Dan case you're showing runs about $250 just for the case). In regards to the Alpha it received frequent *deep* discounts and while it seemed expensive it was actually one of the best deals in mini-pc's at the time and if you took into account the size/specs it was the best deal.

In regards to half sized components I actually don't know of any off the shelf cases built around half sized GPU's that aren't OEMS like Dell.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,996
Problem with mini chasis and a full sized GPU is on top of being an exercise with frustration to build in the case itself tends to be prohibitively expensive (the Dan case you're showing runs about $250 just for the case). In regards to the Alpha it received frequent *deep* discounts and while it seemed expensive it was actually one of the best deals in mini-pc's at the time and if you took into account the size/specs it was the best deal.
I don't know about deals on the Alienware Alpha, but all of those pre-built systems are very expensive.
As I said before, the highest-end model was $949 for a system with a $200 GPU.
Intel's Skull Canyon NUC is $1750! The Corsair One (which is larger than the Dan A4) starts at $2800.

The Dan A4 is one of the most expensive SFF PC cases because it's being manufactured by Lian-Li. There are many less expensive alternatives.
You still end up with a much faster system overall, can probably pay less (though maybe not if you found a really good deal) and have a system which is upgradable rather than having a fixed-spec.

In regards to half sized components I actually don't know of any off the shelf cases built around half sized GPU's that aren't OEMS like Dell.
There is the $80 Velkase Velka 3 for example:


It looks like there's a $150 Velka 5 which is smaller than the Dan A4 and can still fit full length GPUs too - though it's a tower design:


There's nothing quite like the size of the Alpha, but SFF PCs are getting smaller and less expensive all the time.
 

Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
I don't know about deals on the Alienware Alpha, but all of those pre-built systems are very expensive.
As I said before, the highest-end model was $949 for a system with a $200 GPU.
Intel's Skull Canyon NUC is $1750! The Corsair One (which is larger than the Dan A4) starts at $2800.

The Dan A4 is one of the most expensive SFF PC cases because it's being manufactured by Lian-Li. There are many less expensive alternatives.
You still end up with a much faster system overall, can probably pay less (though maybe not if you found a really good deal) and have a system which is upgradable rather than having a fixed-spec.


There is the $80 Velkase Velka 3 for example:


It looks like there's a $150 Velka 5 which is smaller than the Dan A4 and can still fit full length GPUs too - though it's a tower design:


There's nothing quite like the size of the Alpha, but SFF PCs are getting smaller and less expensive all the time.

The Alienware Alpha I seen hit as low as $300 but that was a Black Friday sale IIRC. I've never looked into the Corsair one but the Skull Canyon NUC can be had for a lot less if you get a barebones kit and add your own components (the barebones high end kit is $970 right now on Amazon). But yes you're still paying a fair bit more for a form factor with less upgradeable components but it's also a form factor that you can't get out of a case that fits off the shelf components I don't have infinite space in my entertainment center.

There are some in between options with proriatary mobo's and the best of that is the Asrock Desk mini line which features a propriatary MOBO that fits standard CPU's and RAM however the "best" one still available only has a 1060 and looks to be discontinued soon. After that the best is one that fits AMD's 3000G line which has no dgpu but the igpu in those about makes up for it.

I'm not showing anywhere to purchase the Velkase Velka a google shopping search returns shoes. The official site says sold out.
 
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ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,650
It seems you're hitting the buttons after using the touch pad to control the camera? What I do is assign face button important fast gameplay stuff to non face buttons so I never have to move my thumb off of the camera controls. Activators, and action layers make this easy. My Warframe 4 abilities are on L1, R1, (Holding L1) R1, (Holding R1) L1 for example. I also always put jump on a grip button, and dodge on the other grip button whenever possible. Anything related to interacting with people, picking up items, opening doors, etc. I put on the right track pad click button. Reloading gun, menus, maps, I keep on the face button, they don't require urgency during fast gameplay.
Yeah, I went in with zero tinkering and tried using like how I would use any other controller I have laying around and it just wasn't working out. Will spend time this weekend to see if I can customize it for the games I currently play
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
Sacramento
Just got this in the mail today.

This will take some getting used to, but its a neat lil thing. Doubt it'll push out my DS4 in Rocket League, but I could see this for some halo reach if I can get the gyro setup nicely
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
There is the $80 Velkase Velka 3 for example:


It looks like there's a $150 Velka 5 which is smaller than the Dan A4 and can still fit full length GPUs too - though it's a tower design:


There's nothing quite like the size of the Alpha, but SFF PCs are getting smaller and less expensive all the time.

The next time I make a new build I'm going for something like the Zaber sentry 2.0 they showed in their GOG build with hundreds of games video. Something pretty small and slim. My current case is too big especially since I don't water cool.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
got mine in yesterday and used it with steam link in my room. didnt do any configuring, just straight out of the box. played remnant from the ashes and...its a little weird. for sure will take time to get used to. dont know how much im actually going to use it though.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,245
My biggest issue with the controllers so far is standard controller games. Not because I can't handle only one analogue stick, but rather because the face buttons are tiny and at the maximum reach of my thumb.

I have small hands as a short dude -so I assume I have the smaller hands out of anyone- and have zero problem reaching up to the left analogue stick with my right thumb and x button with my left thumb.
I would make a wild guess that you are holding the controller as you do a more traditional controller, which is not how the controller was designed.

I hold the controller similar to this.

rGSNjNc.jpg


The shape of the controller is meant to have your thumbs / hands closer together over the grips, to angle the tips of your thumbs down on the trackpad, rather than flat like thumbstick

For comparisons sake - it's a huge difference. I've used a fuck ton of controllers, and Steam Controller remains one of the most comfortable:

cmlVGQG.jpg
 

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,367
The Alienware Alpha was a smart design, and OEMs like Dell can certainly build a smaller system than is possible with discrete parts, but the problem is that it usually ends up not really being upgradable (despite their intentions) and overpriced.
That kills it for many people when it's so much more expensive than a console. The highest-end Alpha R2 with a GTX 960 was $949 for a system with a $200 GPU!

They could have built something in a similar (but larger) form-factor using modular laptop components like MXM GPUs—and Digital Storm had the "Project Spark" prototype which showcased that—but then NVIDIA discontinued their MXM GPU parts which killed that project. It was intended to use an MXM RTX 2080 but the prototype was using a GTX 1080 which was the highest-end MXM GPU at the time.
Small form-factor PCs are getting really small these days when you consider that they're using off-the-shelf components though.
a4sfx_77tjp2.jpg
sffpc-volume-cgkt6.png


The DAN A4 case is much larger by volume; 7.1L vs 2.2L, but is still very small. That includes an internal power supply though - Alienware "cheated" by using an external brick with the Alpha.
You can go a bit smaller too, if you're willing to compromise and not use a full length GPU.
It's huge! Also this case has huge vents that need fully Epson so you can't easily tuck the box away out of sight. The Alienware Alpha is already louder than I would prefer and I'm sure this is noisy. PC gaming relies on people being happy with huge loud noisy beasts that don't matter because they're in an office or bedroom.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,996
It's huge! Also this case has huge vents that need fully Epson so you can't easily tuck the box away out of sight.
It's bigger than an Alpha, but it is not "huge".
If you need a case that is wide and flat like a console, you do need to compromise on size because that layout works against the way that GPUs orient to motherboards.
This is something a custom system can work around, but not cases that are using standard PC components.

Sliger's upcoming "console" case ends up being about 1L larger than the Dan A4, but may suit your needs better:
8wjtltc22kz7.jpg
sliger-pro-fokgr.png

(note: front-panel IO is optional, and they will probably offer more colors)

Again: this is going to be larger than the Alpha because that was a mid-range system at best, while these cases can accommodate a full-length GPU.

The Alienware Alpha is already louder than I would prefer and I'm sure this is noisy.
That's because it is small and necessarily has a small cooling system.
What is the #1 thing PC gamers avoid if noise is a concern? Blower fans.
What are the Alpha and PS4 Pro cooled by? Blower fans.

alienware_alpha_r2_gut_shot_primary-100672442-orig.jpg


PC gaming relies on people being happy with huge loud noisy beasts that don't matter because they're in an office or bedroom.
This is the opposite of how things work. Bigger cases let you use more fans and larger cooling solutions, which is going to make the system quieter to run.
That's why high-end PCs use big towers and custom water-cooling loops with multiple radiators. That has a lot of thermal mass, and you can use a lot of fans to achieve high airflow at low RPMs.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Yeah that's also why the XBOX One (X) is bigger than it technically needs to be, it allows for better, more silent cooling. Ideally things should be always larger than necessary so adequate cooling and noise-levels can be prioritized. I built a SFF PC once for the ex-girlfriend of a friend and while this thing was entirely passive cooled the CPU idled at 75°C just being in Windows.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
Last update on mine's delivery was three days ago on Belgium. This is why I've always been reticent of ordering anything physical from the Steam store.

Damn, the N64 ASCII controller i ordered the same day came home two days ago, and i ordered it the same day, from motherfucking Japan, standard non tracked delivery. The Steam controller comes from Europe :(