Vancouver rapist will only face 2 weeks prison time

Aviator Irelia · Nov 11, 2018

Grim said:
He's hardly laughing at the actual case.

nah just trying to hand wave judicial corruption because boys will be boys right and we can't possibly be having this young boy's life be ruined because that girl was so irresistible and rapeable. it might as well be her fault and she should be the one in prison right?

Khanimus · Nov 11, 2018

What the fuck

Deleted member 3010 · Nov 11, 2018

Welcome to sexual crimes in Canada.

Appalling, even if he's a teen this is ridiculous.

Mammoth Jones · Nov 11, 2018

Gross to see folks caring more about the long term recovery of a rapist than the victim. Just gross as shit. Two weeks is ridiculous.

.exe · Nov 11, 2018

Aviator Irelia said:
nah just trying to hand wave judicial corruption because boys will be boys right and we can't possibly be having this young boy's life be ruined because that girl was so irresistible and rapeable. it might as well be her fault and she should be the one in prison right?

lol what the fuck that escalated from 0 to 100

No, what they said is that the kid should've been requested to be tried as an adult if the prosecution (?) wanted to get a longer sentence.

Aviator Irelia · Nov 11, 2018

daxy said:
lol what the fuck that escalated from 0 to 100

No, what they said is that the kid should've been requested to be tried as an adult if the prosecution (?) wanted to get a longer sentence.

Read between the lines. Society doesn't give a shit about rape victims, just rapists. Even in Canada. Not much is different I guess.

Hycran · Nov 11, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
These are the things he kept in mind. That factored into the 2 weeks

excelsiorlef said:
There's no indication from the judge's ruling that he had no choice, there's no expression that says he's bound and his hands are tied, what we do have is all indications that the judge was sympathetic towards the rapist.

excelsiorlef said:
Evidence that this is the case here?

You'd think that would have come out given the backlash.

The reality is the Judge's words and reasoning are cold and callous and absolutely part of the problem

I'm not sure what your axe to grind is but i'll try and sort this out for you

1: The judge keeps in mind what the crown and the defence inform him or her of. Judges do not do their own research or facebook people. I know this because I worked with judges and am a lawyer

2: "No choice" is not some sort of free reference to agency - judges are bound by case law and are informed by the cases of the crown and defence. It is exceedingly rare that judges will go beyond what the crown recommends or what the defence recommends as lawyers, who themselves are familiar with the case law, choose their recommendations based on what is reasonable in light of the circumstances and the case law.

3: The judge's words being cold and callous is entirely a figment of your imagination. The judge doesn't say "she deserved it" or "this kind of behaviour is a-ok with me". The fact that the judges sentence doesn't accord with what people think is fair is completely irrelevant UNLESS the judge goes far outside what the aforementioned case law or lawyer recommendations speak to.

Just to repeat: No one thinks what this guy did is ok. He is the human equivalent of a maggot and deserving of the rebuke he has received and will continue to receive for the rest of his life. However, if there is even a slim chance of rehabilitating him, and if he has already done his time, then it is worth a shot. I'm not a criminal lawyer but i'm familiar with YCMJ sentencing, and this is in keeping with a reasonable, although perhaps low, range of sentences.

Deckerd said:
You can take the time and research the case law yourself. I'm speaking from professional experience that bail is credited as custody in certain circumstances.

This is also my understanding. The normal procedure obviously is that someone is in remand or in a penitentiary, but for child offenders there are more flexible rules and considerations.

excelsiorlef · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
3: The judge's words being cold and callous is entirely a figment of your imagination. The judge doesn't say "she deserved it" or "this kind of behaviour is a-ok with me". The fact that the judges sentence doesn't accord with what people think is fair is completely irrelevant UNLESS the judge goes far outside what the aforementioned case law or lawyer recommendations speak to.

Taking into consideration not getting to graduate with your friends as part of punishment for rape is 100% cold and callous , saying that out loud is cold and callous.

It's essentially saying yes this boy raped you but you have to see he's hurting too, he didn't graduate with his buds.

The crown asked for 3 years in custody, the Judge gave him two weeks.

To boot he's still maintaining she consented, there's no rehabilitation when a rapist won't even admit to being a rapist.

We have an unrepentant rapist getting a slap on the wrist because a judge thinks the community knowing he's a rapist and him missing out on graduating with his buddies means he's suffered enough.

That's cold and callous.

Deleted member 47318 · Nov 11, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Taking into consideration not getting to graduate with your friends as part of punishment for rape is 100% cold and callous , saying that out loud is cold and callous.

It's essentially saying yes this boy raped you but you have to see he's hurting too, he didn't graduate with his buds.

The crown asked for 3 years in custody, the Judge gave him two weeks.

Yeah, this is so utterly sad and bizarre.

This kind of "leniency" for such sadly seems to be inherent here in Europe as well. Not to the same extent, but still to the point where one can hardly speak of actual punishment.

Morrigan · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
3: The judge's words being cold and callous is entirely a figment of your imagination.

???

Judge Meyers found the teen has already faced social ramifications after being shunned from the community and not being able to graduate high school with his peers, which contributed to his sentencing.

^ Did you miss this part from the OP, or are you actually saying that this isn't cold and callous?

Hycran · Nov 11, 2018

Morrigan said:
???

^ Did you miss this part from the OP, or are you actually saying that this isn't cold and callous?

That doesn't seem cold and callous to me at all. This is saying NOTHING about victim. The sentencing procedure is mostly about the accused and how they should be treated. It isnt even clear to me how this could be cold and callous towards the victim. If it was re-written to say "he has suffered just as much as the victim" then my red flags would go way up and I would be calling bullshit.

Another good way to parse this out is to understand that during sentencing, people are allowed to read out "community impact statements" or "victim impact statement" which allows people to say how the heinous acts of this rapist affect them and their community. This is how the victim and their friends and loved ones can have their feelings heard. Judges will often comment on how emotional and impressive these statements are. However, these statements are different than how the perpetrator is affected.

Just because we rightfully arent too concerned with how this almost murderer/rapist guy is being affected by his abhorrent actions doesnt mean judges don't take them into account, if only slightly.

Addie · Nov 11, 2018

It would be helpful if there were an actual transcript of the sentencing, because in nearly every situation, relying on journalists to explain the nuances (if there are any) is a recipe for failure.

As someone mentioned above, the sliding scale here is 0-3 years, and the accused will receive credit for time spent in custody prior to sentencing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the defence introduced those statements (e.g., "He couldn't graduate with his peers") and the judge mentioned them simply to state, on the record, that he considered matters properly introduced by the defence in sentencing.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it's a shitbag Brock Turner-like judge.

But I'm going to state, again and again on this forum, secondhand reports by most news outlets do not paint the full picture when dealing with legal matters.

Morrigan · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
That doesn't seem cold and callous to me at all. This is saying NOTHING about victim. The sentencing procedure is mostly about the accused and how they should be treated. It isnt even clear to me how this could be cold and callous towards the victim. If it was re-written to say "he has suffered just as much as the victim" then my red flags would go way up and I would be calling bullshit.

No, no, no. Just because the judge didn't go all the way into false equivalences or victim-blaming doesn't mean that reducing his sentence from 3 years to 2 weeks because the poor boy is "shunned" isn't cold and callous towards the victim (who, again, was sent to the hospital with critical injuries) and it's frankly infuriating to see people defend this. He's a repeat offender who committed an extremely violent crime. Any kind of bullshit sympathy towards him is horrific callousness towards the victim, period.

Addie · Nov 11, 2018

Christ. The first story linked is terrible and devoid of relevant facts. The linked story (https://www.nsnews.com/news/teen-jailed-just-two-weeks-for-violent-sex-assault-1.23476809) is slightly better:

Crown prosecutors had asked the judge to sentence the teen to three years in custody – the maximum sentence that can be handed out to a youth convicted of a serious crime – pointing to the youth's "disturbing lack of empathy" regarding the "serious violent offence."
Defence lawyers argued the sentence should be served in the community under supervision.
In his sentencing decision, Meyers described the young woman who was victim of the grad party assault as "a very courageous woman who has suffered tremendously." But he said he also had to consider factors like the almost three years the youth has been on relatively strict bail conditions without breaching them.
Meyers noted that as the youth is now legally an adult, corrections staff would likely apply to have any jail sentence transferred to an adult prison.
The judge added he also had to consider "extra judicial consequences" the youth has experienced, which included not being able to graduate from high school with his childhood friends and being shunned in the community.

So, it looks like the offender has been undergoing pretrial restraint (bail conditions) for 3 years, will spend 2 weeks in physical custody, and will then spend almost 3 more years under probation (or community supervision, which is the maximum sentence permissible for a youth, apparently).

I am not a Canadian prosecutor. I have no idea if this within the realm of normal for this kind of offense. You'd almost think that a proper journalist might want to comment on whether this is truly an outlier or whether it's more of a potentially systemic issue.

While I completely understand people saying "2 weeks isn't enough," it's completely untrue to say he has been, or will be, affiliated with the court system for only 2 weeks.

Puroresu_kid · Nov 11, 2018

I agree that he is shouldn't be tried as an adult however a sex offender shouldn't be let back into the community so quickly

subpar spatula · Nov 11, 2018

Siggy-P said:
Fucking disgusting.

Where are all ERA's rehabilitation shills though? There's a repeat rapist that needs defending.

Seems short-sighted to throw rehabilitation under the bus.

Cheesy · Nov 11, 2018

Seik said:
Welcome to sexual crimes in Canada.

Appalling, even if he's a teen this is ridiculous.

Wasn't Trudeau trying to pass a bill as well that would lessen the punishment for sexual crimes? I swear I recall reading somewhere that the punishment for applying a date rape drug to a girls drink would be far less severe.

Siggy-P · Nov 11, 2018

subpar spatula said:
Seems short-sighted to throw rehabilitation under the bus.

I'm not, I'm throwing the posters that come into every similar thread about a rapist and saying "Do we just not forgive anyone then?" before reading the topic, under the bus.

Absent · Nov 11, 2018

Addie said:
Christ. The first story linked is terrible and devoid of relevant facts. The linked story (https://www.nsnews.com/news/teen-jailed-just-two-weeks-for-violent-sex-assault-1.23476809) is slightly better:

This is even worse.

Crown prosecutors had asked the judge to sentence the teen to three years in custody – the maximum sentence that can be handed out to a youth convicted of a serious crime – pointing to the youth's "disturbing lack of empathy" regarding the "serious violent offence."

Two psychologists ordered by the court to provide reports both rated the youth a low risk to reoffend, Meyers noted, but both said they had little information to base their assessment on, as the youth had been instructed by his lawyer not to speak to them about the offences, pending an appeal.

As part of the sentence in the community, the youth must complete 50 hours of community work service, must take sex offender treatment if recommended by his probation officer, must be either employed or attending school, not change his address and have no contact with either victim.

Defence lawyer Joe Saulnier indicated outside the court that the youth plans to appeal his convictions on the grounds that the trial judge disregarded evidence that called complainants' statements about what happened into question and that he refused to allow defence lawyers to call one expert witness.

Deleted member 41271 · Nov 11, 2018

Men like Hycran are the worst.

Hycran said:
3: The judge's words being cold and callous is entirely a figment of your imagination.

Stanning for a rapist, and of course everyone that doesn't is just imagining things. Classic gaslighting. In reality, nobody imagined anything, the judge's statements are clear as day - tons of sympathy for the rapist, none for the victim. Just like you.

Hycran said:
However, if there is even a slim chance of rehabilitating him,

A guy that denies that he even raped, despite hospitalizing his victim and this being the SECOND time he raped, has no chance of rehabilitation at this point. And the very reason for that is people like the judge and you, that keep giving people like this passes. What this guy learned is that everyone will make excuses for him, coddle him, and that he'll get slaps on the wrist and can continue raping. What did he learn here? That people think he deserves more sympathy than his victims. Why would he ever change?

Any sympathy for him is utter callousness of the worst kind, a complete and utter lack of empathy that's only found for rape victims.

Khanimus · Nov 11, 2018

subpar spatula said:
Seems short-sighted to throw rehabilitation under the bus.

This is his second victim and he is getting a slap on the wrist.

Hycran · Nov 11, 2018

I'll say this much and then exit: I have not, am not, and will not be made out to be someone who is "defending" or "stanning" a rapist. The fact that even a moderator would so carelessly misinterpret my words is troubling, particularly given that this forum likes to hold itself out as a place for debate and not careless attacks.

I, like everyone with a heart, unconditionally condemn these attacks. Furthermore, it is clear to me that the penalty this cunt received was far less than he deserved from a moral stand point. However, my goal when I came in here was to try and shed some light on the legal breakdown of the situation for people who might not understand the law and why this guy would essentially be getting a slap on the wrist.

The fact that my good intention could be so recklessly misconstrued is extremely troubling. Do I think this guy has a chance at rehabilitation? Probably not. Does he deserve a stronger sentence? Yes he does. None of that however detracts from my original comments about how the law, lawyers, and judiciary work.

I'll leave it at that.

Edit: Jesus Christ what a typo.

Morrigan · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
I'll say this much and then exit: I have not, am not, and will not be made out to be someone who is "defending" or "stanning" a rapist. The fact that even a moderator would so carelessly misinterpret my words is troubling, particularly given that this forum likes to hold itself out as a place for debate and not careless attacks.

I didn't say you defended or stanned for anyone. But you did deny the obvious callousness behind the thinking that a boy being shunned should mitigate his punishment for an extremely violent (and repeat) rape. Moreover, you told a woman who pointed out this callousness that it's a "figment of her imagination". That is troubling, to say the least.

Antrax · Nov 11, 2018

Ogami Itto said:
C'mon guys, how will he become a Supreme Court judge if he has to go to jail? I know this is Canada, btw.

Yeah, he won't do it again, I think? Maybe? I don't know?

"we don't think he'll do it again, but also he didn't talk to us"

What in the world. If he wouldn't talk to you, that should factor against him in my opinion.

Hycran said:
"this kind of behaviour is a-ok with me"

Tell that to the kid since he'll be good to go after raping two girls and getting this cheap sentence. Like fining a billionaire $5.

Hycran said:
I, like everyone with a heart, unconditionally condone these attacks.

Helluva a typo

DigitalOp · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
I, like everyone with a heart, unconditionally condone these attacks.

This isn't as slick as it comes across.

Typo or not, after your stance. Damn you look shady lol

Deleted member 23850 · Nov 11, 2018

Utterly atrocious. Dude should have his life ruined, not just receive a two week jail sentence.

Deleted member 15440 · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
I'll say this much and then exit: I have not, am not, and will not be made out to be someone who is "defending" or "stanning" a rapist.

...

I, like everyone with a heart, unconditionally condone these attacks.

rofl

Mauricio_Magus · Nov 11, 2018

This is horrible, 2 fucking weeks, and some of you saying that the rape victim ended in CRITICAL conditions... what the fuck.

TinfoilHatsROn · Nov 11, 2018

Hycran said:
I'll say this much and then exit: I have not, am not, and will not be made out to be someone who is "defending" or "stanning" a rapist. The fact that even a moderator would so carelessly misinterpret my words is troubling, particularly given that this forum likes to hold itself out as a place for debate and not careless attacks.

I, like everyone with a heart, unconditionally condone these attacks. Furthermore, it is clear to me that the penalty this cunt received was far less than he deserved from a moral stand point. However, my goal when I came in here was to try and shed some light on the legal breakdown of the situation for people who might not understand the law and why this guy would essentially be getting a slap on the wrist.

The fact that my good intention could be so recklessly misconstrued is extremely troubling. Do I think this guy has a chance at rehabilitation? Probably not. Does he deserve a stronger sentence? Yes he does. None of that however detracts from my original comments about how the law, lawyers, and judiciary work.

I'll leave it at that.

Lul. Jesus Christ.

Addie · Nov 11, 2018

He obviously meant "condemn." Come on.

In any case, the real question, in my mind, is why the Crown didn't seek an adult sentence for this offender under the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

Vancouver rapist will only face 2 weeks prison time

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