Verge: "Destiny 2: Shadowkeep Is The Game Destiny Always Should Have Been"

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,290
And that's not enough either.

Mics cut out.

The D2 vanilla raid Leviathan, we had so many wipes because someone in the shadow realm's mic wasn't working well enough and couldnt hear their callouts.

You've obviously never seen a Destiny raid, and so you're just talking out your ass.
A problem that isnt exclusive to one option isnt a great argument lmao. But yes please assume my knowledge about destiny raids
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,903
Providence / Boston
No. They never will. Simple activities with "raid like" encounters, like Menagerie or Vex Offensive, do, but you don't want Raid Matchmaking.
He clearly does. Don't tell people what they want.

There are ways to do Raid matchmaking.

- Have it only available for normal difficult at first, add it to hard difficulty after a couple/few months have passed.
- Make it unavailable unless you're max Power Level.
- Make it so you can't use it if the game detects a mic.
- Perhaps even allow other players to vote to kick a player if it is unanimous.

And the best part? You don't need to use it if you don't want to!
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,092
If only there was a system in place that detects if a player has a mic 🤔
A dude with a mic can also just not bother to communicate properly at all. It’s far more likely to run into such players when making raids more accessible through something like MM, over a player who actively pursues forming a full team. Which is why the actual solution is in-game LFG.
 

marzoo

Member
Jun 1, 2018
2,594
I tried getting into the game buts its awful and overwhelming, I have no idea where or how to start playing the story.
 

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,957
https://www.geek.com/games/destiny-2-is-everything-the-first-game-should-have-been-1700138/

Destiny is actually really really good now



 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,611
Tennessee
I’m excited to jump back into this!! I have only played the game a little bit I own everything through Forsaken.

If I don’t want to do the free model and want the full paid experience, what exactly do I need to buy??

I would actually love to have it on PC now, and I only own it on PS4 right now, so what does that require money wise to start from scratch on PC? I looked but not sure what I need to buy!
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,388
If a feature is added it needs to function and offer a good player experience. Raid matchmaking would be difficult to achieve in this, not least because of guaranteeing communication (even with a mic check) and guaranteeing people don’t drop out. If you’re on Shuro Chi and people keep bailing after 45m and you need to wait for the slot to be filled, bring someone up to speed only for the next person to bail 15m later, it’s not fun for anyone.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,290
A dude with a mic can also just not bother to communicate properly at all. It’s far more likely to run into such players when making raids more accessible through something like MM, over a player who actively pursues forming a full team. Which is why the actual solution is in-game LFG.
If you get frustarted with people with poor commmunication, you can just make your own group. Thats the power of having options
I am, because it's extremely obvious you have no clue about the complexity of them and the comms required.
Bro, you got me. Ive certainly never done a destiny raid, especially not with some of the people on here
 
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Strakt

Strakt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,163
Well yea Year 2 was a huge turning point for destiny 2. Year 3 is also a huge turning point bringing cross save, free to play with a ton of content, departure from activision, no more ps4 exclusives, revamps to a bunch of systems, etc. Bungies just doing the right things to warrant these articles.
 

Uiki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
119
He clearly does. Don't tell people what they want.

There are ways to do Raid matchmaking.

- Have it only available for normal difficult at first, add it to hard difficulty after a couple/few months have passed.
- Make it unavailable unless you're max Power Level.
- Make it so you can't use it if the game detects a mic.
- Perhaps even allow other players to vote to kick a player if it is unanimous.

And the best part? You don't need to use it if you don't want to!

Power level has nothing to do with this. Killing stuff is not the point.
 

InsaneTiger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,053
I've been one of those "millions of players" for a large portion of Destiny's lifespan, it's one of my most played games ever. Destiny 2 has only been good during portions of Forsaken, most of the changes they feel like making are sidegrades at best and downgrades at worst.
I'm curious to know what you find to be a problem. Genuine question.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
If only there was a system in place that detects if a player has a mic 🤔
If a player goes through the low effort to go to the bungie.net fire teams to find a raid party their commitment to completing the raid and being patient is likely much higher than if you hit match making, realize your party sucks, leave and hit match making again.

It’s just worse, especially for an activity where you’re likely gonna be stuck with the same 5 people for a few hours.

I dunno man, raid match making is just such a low impact thing that would probably give people worse experiences rather than good ones. The way things are now, yeah it takes more effort to find a raid but goddamn the community has been nothing but excellent to me and people looking to learn.
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,812
overall i'm having fun but there are still some flat-out bugs and/or oversights that are annoying, and this seems to happen every time with a new expansion
  • failure to convert old 10-scale armor stats to the new 100-scale - e.g. old +1 recovery on an old armor doesn't give +10 recovery as you'd expect; traction that used to give +1 mobility still gives +1 mobility even though it should give +10 under the new system
  • moon is deserted sometimes even though there are typically over 200k players on steam (bungie is aware of this bug)
  • you can't see your clan's destiny character profiles unless they are your friend on steam. why would you do this? it worked perfectly fine on bnet.

Two intentional design decisions that i dislike greatly
  • Unstoppable/barrier/disruptor mods are only on limited types of guns. Many times it's better to run two primaries so that you have access to the mods. The fact that exotics cannot have these mods also means that the only exotics that are useful are heavies because using a non-heavy exotic (aside from eriana) will mean you are missing an artifact mod.
  • Elemental affinity on armors, especially exotics, limiting the types of mods that can be applied.
 

sleepr

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,180
Destiny should have been a copy of World of Warcraft but with guns and set in it's own universe. Now that's a game that excites me to play.
 

Mr_DyZ

Member
Jun 12, 2019
233
Do Raids have matchmaking yet?
Trust me, you don't want matchmaking for raids. If LFG in WoW is any indication, that's an absolute shit show.

Hardly, but thanks for not playing and providing a shit take.

It does have its issues though. PvP still isn't in a good place, and it seems there might be a issue with not enough loot to chase as the season gets long.

I agree on the loot stuff, but disagree with PvP. Aside from minor grips like heavy spawn rate (which they are actively tuning), I think this is some of the best PvP Destiny 2 has ever had, and definitely the best since Forsaken dropped. Hell, Bungie has already done more with PvP in the first week of this expansion vs anything they did throughout Forsaken.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,092
If you get frustarted with people with poor commmunication, you can just make your own group. Thats the power of having options
If Bungo gets to the point where they can implement that many options, then by all means they should. But if it’s a case of one over the other or one after the other, in-game LFG should be prioritized before any sort of MM system.
 

Triscuitable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,506
"With [insert expansion name here], Destiny is finally the game it always should have been."

This sentence lost all meaning after The Taken King. The way journos write about this series, you'd think Destiny has been universally regarded as shit up until a new expansion releases. Destiny 2 has arguably been great since Warmind. It's not like it's impossible to innovate and improve upon an already great game.
 

Uiki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
119
Thank you for commenting on one of the 5 different things I said.
Do I need to comment on the other things as well?

- Power levels are not the problem
- Power levels are not the problem
- Having a mic =/= using a mic
- Leaving aside the obvious flaw of a system like that, you actually need someone to substitute the guy you kick. And there's no point in joining a raid midway. And even with a ringer system and some sort of reward for people to join the raid population is way to low to substain a MM like this.

There's the need for a lfg in-game and not just a simple matchmaking system.
 

Chandler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
959
The build opportunities that have come out of Armor 2.0 are amazing, I'm personally already building a set for my Voidwalker that let's me throw back to back to back grenades that feeds into my super gain and it's the most fun I have had with this game.

Also on the topic of raid matchmaking, I don't trust someone to handle mechanics and communicate if they can't even put in the bare-minimum effort of LFG'ing. I think everything should have matchmaking just for parity across all modes, but I wouldn't want to ever touch it myself.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,290
If Bungo gets to the point where they can implement that many options, then by all means they should. But if it’s a case of one over the other or one after the other, in-game LFG should be prioritized before any sort of MM system.
I doubt it. They cant even be assed to implement console control options that arent a joke
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,903
Providence / Boston
Do I need to comment on the other things as well?

- Power levels are not the problem
- Power levels are not the problem
- Having a mic =/= using a mic
- Leaving aside the obvious flaw of a system like that, you actually need someone to substitute the guy you kick. And there's no point in joining a raid midway. And even with a ringer system for people to join the raid population is way to low to substain a MM like this.

There's the need for a lfg in-game, not a matchmaking system.
None of that is an argument against what I said.

Don't use it if you don't want it. Simple.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,962
Canada
I'm curious to know what you find to be a problem. Genuine question.
"Checklist" gameplay instead of any kind of organic way of questing or interesting worldbuilding, extreme lack of any new interesting loot, new campaign is extremely short, very few meaningful additions as far as classes go, no new subclasses.

The only thing they're doing decent on is PvP is better now than it's been for awhile but it's still nowhere close to as good as PvP was in parts of Destiny 1.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,092
"With [insert expansion name here], Destiny is finally the game it always should have been."

This sentence lost all meaning after The Taken King. The way journos write about this series, you'd think Destiny has been universally regarded as shit up until a new expansion releases. Destiny 2 has arguably been great since Warmind. It's not like it's impossible to innovate and improve upon an already great game.
Basically. It’s a dumb idea for an article.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
939
I played a lot of Destiny 1 (including all the expansions) and I played Destiny 2 quite intensively at launch - until the second Iron Banner, I think.

After that, I just gave up. I know I wasn't alone in doing that; the dearth of content was particularly bad around that time, and realistically all I could do was run a few missions a week because of the way the light system was structured.

It sounds like things have changed in a positive way, but as someone who only owns base Destiny 2 digitally, how do I even go about getting back into it now? Do I grab the F2P version? Do I re-download what I already have?
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,134
Well yea Year 2 was a huge turning point for destiny 2. Year 3 is also a huge turning point bringing cross save, free to play with a ton of content, departure from activision, no more ps4 exclusives, revamps to a bunch of systems, etc. Bungies just doing the right things to warrant these articles.
This is the reason why I'm interested in Destiny 2 again. I'm hoping the breakup with Activison really does turn the game in a positive direction.
 
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Strakt

Strakt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,163
The expansion is vastly inferior to Forsaken. What game are they playing..
If you actually read the article or quotes, they aren't saying Shadowkeep is the best content Bungies ever released..

"Shadowkeep itself is not the biggest or most ambitious expansion the series has ever seen — that continues to be last year’s Forsaken. It’s also not the most impressive from a narrative standpoint, as some of its new missions and activities feel a bit too steeped in the game’s arcane backstory. But taking into account those long-term changes to how the game will be designed and distributed, as well as played across platforms, Shadowkeep is without a doubt the strongest representation of Bungie’s ultimate vision for Destiny to date."
 

Lampa

Member
Feb 13, 2018
859
None of that is an argument against what I said.

Don't use it if you don't want it. Simple.
To answer your first post, none of those points solves the issue of people not knowing raids, not being good enough or just not caring about what they're doing. Easy mode raids would work, if there was a tutorial.

And for the second point, why make a feature what is likely to drive players away from the game with possible bad experience? LFG is easy, you can find people who are willing to teach there, or people who all know what to do and want a quick clear. Guided Games is also good for the former.

Bro, you got me. Ive certainly never done a destiny raid, especially not with some of the people on here
You play(ed) Destiny, do you really think people in Matchmade activities are good enough to do raids? Have you played Reckoning or Gambit in Destiny 2? Those were (when they were relevant) some of the worst matchmaking experiences you could have. Even if you found other people through LFG and never talked to them the entire game, you would have a better experience than MM people who don't care or have no clue what's going on.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,723
Wisconsin
I loaded it up yesterday, looked at everything, became confused what I'm actually supposed to do, and decided I didn't want to bother relearning the whole game again. There was already too much going on and they managed to make it way more overwhelming somehow, it unfortunately reminds me of starting a gacha game a year or two in
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,903
Providence / Boston
Well said!

To answer your first post, none of those points solves the issue of people not knowing raids,.
Well, another requirement could easily be needing to complete the Raid (meaning each encounter) at least once to be able to access matchmaking.

I think that would be a very good compromise.

There are absolutely ways to make it work. And those who don't want to use it don't have it. It really is that simple.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,388
Don't use it if you don't want it. Simple.
Having an option for the sake of having an option isn’t really enough. You don’t want to provide users an official means to play something that is a poor experience. Raids are particularly difficult in this. As I said above guaranteeing people stay is difficult. If someone quits after a number of wipes at the Vault you need to wait for a replacement. You need to guarantee that replacement is using their mic, and if they are and new to the raid you need to bring them up to speed on the whole encounter. By that point and another couple of wipes some other random might need to dip. Repeat the process.

Thats assuming people matchmaking want to join midway through the raid. What happens if they want to start afresh, or want a roll at the curated Nation of Beasts from Morgeth? Certainly if it’s someone’s first time they would want to start from the beginning?

‘This isn’t a “no fuck you” it’s genuine issues that would need to be resolved for the option to be a positive experience for the player. Saying “you don’t have to use it” doesn’t really cut it when it comes to securing that.
 

zethren

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,286
Destiny has never been in a better spot, to be honest. I said that last season*, and it still holds true and is on a really great path right now.

*The season of the drifter, prior to last season, was kind of meh but overall the game was still in a good spot.
 

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,461
I like the new seasons but honestly I preferred how Forsaken was structured. I dont like how they flatlined all the old content.
 

Zoidn

Member
Dec 23, 2018
352
Playing the game with a friend for the first time now that it's free-to-play and I'm not impressed so far, but still enjoying it. Gameplay and visuals are quite good at least.
 

SmugAcolyte

Member
Feb 4, 2018
134
Destiny has been in a good spot since the Taken King. When it launched, D2 had structural issues that kept it from being GOTG but it was still a fun game to play through.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,002
I was playing another round of Vex Offensive last night when, for a very brief moment, I was hit with some Halo nostalgia when shooting at a Minotaur. Like, it was a small flashback to memories of emptying assault rifle clips into Elites. I had been chasing that feeling since D1 launched.
 

ch4fx_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,564
If “Bank your motes, it’s time for a Primeval” is any indication of raid matchmaking, I don’t want it.

I tried getting into the game buts its awful and overwhelming, I have no idea where or how to start playing the story.
If you’re still interested, plenty of folks in the OT that would be happy to explain things to hopefully clear up any confusion. Any particular part you’re having trouble with?
 
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