Verge: "Destiny 2: Shadowkeep Is The Game Destiny Always Should Have Been"

Cornbread78

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,548
Northeast USA
You... You did this on purpose didn't you?

You know what. I'm almost hoping Bungie activates MM for Levi, LW and Crown of Sorrow, so those, whom have spend hundreds and hundreds of hours and consistently say it would be a nightmare, can be proven wrong about it...

Let all these newbies give it a shot and please auto-stream it; I want to watch and be proven wrong...





Every Destiny thread...


It's like a console war thread where the check-boxes/talking points must all be met when posting...
 

10k

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,274
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I bought the bundle last September with all content up to and including Forsaken. I loved it. But after getting to the max power level of 600, I put it down (around November 2018). Has any new story content or strikes been dropped since then? Shadowkeep doesn't seem to push the narrative too far and I heard new expansions would focus less on new campaign missions with cinematics.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,880
He clearly does. Don't tell people what they want.

There are ways to do Raid matchmaking.

- Have it only available for normal difficult at first, add it to hard difficulty after a couple/few months have passed.
- Make it unavailable unless you're max Power Level.
- Make it so you can't use it if the game detects a mic.
- Perhaps even allow other players to vote to kick a player if it is unanimous.

And the best part? You don't need to use it if you don't want to!
you have to communicate to complete raids. This is not optional. People will just not use their mic. or use a mic emulator. or something else to get around it.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
811
UK
Join us in the OT and the discord! Our community is really friendly, helpful, knowledgable. We have sherpas dedicated to helping new and old players alike. I'm a sherpa on PC if you're on the platform and ever need help with anything!

Discord LFG is, imo, the best way to find guardians for activities with no MM.
Thanks for the offer man. I've been playing solo and muddling my way through the quest-lines on each planet, so playing with others sounds like fun. Do you have a link for the Discord?
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,023
I don’t see how the game is that much different than it was in Forsaken.

My biggest issue with it is still the timed stuff and how confusing the game can be with the amount of quests you have.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
you have to communicate to complete raids. This is not optional. People will just not use their mic. or use a mic emulator. or something else to get around it.
There are probably ways to work around or address that. OR, Bungie could provide ways to communicate non-verbally. MMOs have far more interesting/deeper mechanics and they do allow matchmade raids that generally don't require voice.

I guess I just don't buy a lot of this stuff as things that aren't fixable. Like, for a raid, having some sort of marker or call-out mapped to the directional buttons would be far more useful than being able to dance four different ways.

Even something like the contextual ping that Apex uses could probably help a lot with some non-verbal communication issues. If I need somebody else to shoot a specific object, let me ping that object, which highlights it for people in my fireteam.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,092
Not trying to be facetious. I had 458 hours in D1 (which is a lot for me), and i stopped playing D2 after 86h. I was hyped for D2, but playing for months/years until the game gets good isn't a very enticing prospect.
It's too late, Euler. You already killed it. My boy. Look how you massacred my boy. Alas poor Destiny, I knew him, Euler. Oh, woe, tis the roots of brevity in life, a cruel mistress like none other. Taketh she may at the hands of one called Euler, but my memory still remain pure, and forever pure it shall be.

End scene.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,385
Dust Giant IV Cohort/Century 4/Maniple 1
4 Squad [AIRMOBILE]
TASK:
- secure grid 071x145, destroy guardian target
OUTCOME:
- target Guardian temporarily destroyed. target re-engaged with Guardian reinforcements. no friendly survivors.

Dust Giant IV Cohort/Century 4/Maniple 1
Harvester Dropship [TAC AIR]
TASK:
- support IV/4/1/4 operations in 071x145
OUTCOME:
- dropship shot down. crew reported Guardians operating elaborate totem rocket weapons.

Blind Legion I Cohort/Century 3/Maniple 3
5 Squad [HEAVY INF]
TASK:
- defend Psion intelligence ops 071x146
OUTCOME:

- overwhelmed by Guardian fireteam/Vex pressure. few survivors. survivors reported Guardians foraging for equipment, dancing, and performing acrobatics with light vehicles
 

Dranakin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
811
Do Raids have matchmaking yet?
As in blind/completely random matchmaking?

No.
No. They never will. Simple activities with "raid like" encounters, like Menagerie or Vex Offensive, do, but you don't want Raid Matchmaking.
Damn, really? I don't know anyone in real life who plays video games so I always rely on playing with randoms. I think there's a Era Discord but I have to figure out how to use that.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,092
Dust Giant IV Cohort/Century 4/Maniple 1
4 Squad [AIRMOBILE]
TASK:
- secure grid 071x145, destroy guardian target
OUTCOME:
- target Guardian temporarily destroyed. target re-engaged with Guardian reinforcements. no friendly survivors.

Dust Giant IV Cohort/Century 4/Maniple 1
Harvester Dropship [TAC AIR]
TASK:
- support IV/4/1/4 operations in 071x145
OUTCOME:
- dropship shot down. crew reported Guardians operating elaborate totem rocket weapons.

Blind Legion I Cohort/Century 3/Maniple 3
5 Squad [HEAVY INF]
TASK:
- defend Psion intelligence ops 071x146
OUTCOME:

- overwhelmed by Guardian fireteam/Vex pressure. few survivors. survivors reported Guardians foraging for equipment, dancing, and performing acrobatics with light vehicles
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,880
There are probably ways to work around or address that. OR, Bungie could provide ways to communicate non-verbally. MMOs have far more interesting/deeper mechanics and they do allow matchmade raids that generally don't require voice.

I guess I just don't buy a lot of this stuff as things that aren't fixable. Like, for a raid, having some sort of marker or call-out mapped to the directional buttons would be far more useful than being able to dance four different ways.
if we are talking about raidfinder in wow...they dumb down the mechanics/damage so much that you can steamroll through it without really trying. To do this in destiny would be terrible. Raids are supposed to be hard. And they are supposed to get you to communicate and work with a team to solve.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,461
There is a lot of activities but I am not nearly as engaged as I was during TTK year.

I really kind of dislike the truncated campaign as I am new to Forsaken and I feel like I missed my opportunity to play it proper. I suppose I still get some value from the $25 but it’s not the experience I was sold on. :/

Still it’s all fine and I can’t speak on the new stuff much yet, but Y2/3 is still my fav Destiny period so far.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
if we are talking about raidfinder in wow...they dumb down the mechanics/damage so much that you can steamroll through it without really trying. To do this in destiny would be terrible. Raids are supposed to be hard. And they are supposed to get you to communicate and work with a team to solve.
I did edit my post and offer some sort of suggestion:

Allow a contextual ping like Apex. If I have a buddy that needs to shoot something, let me highlight it with a ping so he can see what I need.

It's also not really my place to say what is too easy/hard. I typically raid with a group of people and we do communicate, but I'm not at all opposed to having an easier version of the raid that introduces the mechanics and the basic experience to players that don't necessarily want to use LFG or some Discord.

Damn, really? I don't know anyone in real life who plays video games so I always rely on playing with randoms. I think there's a Era Discord but I have to figure out how to use that.
I don't agree with the "No MM" opinion, but I think having no LFG in the game after being around for so long(guided games is a half-assed attempt at it) is really bad.
 

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
626
USA
Pass for me. Bungie and Destiny have not respected my time or money across 2 entries / 5 years. And frankly this PR cycle that comes 2-3 years after launch that declares, "the game is good now!" is tiring and hollow.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,880
I did edit my post and offer some sort of suggestion:

Allow a contextual ping like Apex. If I have a buddy that needs to shoot something, let me highlight it with a ping so he can see what I need.

It's also not really my place to say what is too easy/hard. I typically raid with a group of people and we do communicate, but I'm not at all opposed to having an easier version of the raid that introduces the mechanics and the basic experience to players that don't necessarily want to use LFG or some Discord.



I don't agree with the "No MM" opinion, but I think having no LFG in the game after being around for so long(guided games is a half-assed attempt at it) is really bad.
its more than just "shooting this thing". like..sometimes you have to describe VISUALLY what you are seeing because no one else can see it and they rely on your communication to properly solve the puzzle. a ping system wont do this.
 

Blueblur

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,422
Miami, FL
Aside from the rehashed content, the game systems are better now and the game loop as fun as ever. But yes, content-wise this expansion is dreadful.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
its more than just "shooting this thing". like..sometimes you have to describe VISUALLY what you are seeing because no one else can see it and they rely on your communication to properly solve the puzzle. a ping system wont do this.
Yeah, and I'm saying that doesn't have to be the basis of the design, right? That's mostly my point. Bungie can design the game however they want, but these problems can be worked around (literally look at any MMO) by changing the design. These raids aren't even particularly deep in the scheme of things. I've done pub raids in FFXIV that are more complex than what Destiny has, and they are designed around being able to complete without having to talk to each other. I really doubt it's impossible for Bungie to do that too.

Also, by changing how that works (ex, one of 10 symbols lights up and you ping that symbol instead of calling out said symbol) would solve the problem.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,049
I've seriously got to disagree. Destiny could be so much more than "Kill 100 enemies of this type on the Moon" to progress story campaigns.

It's ridiculous, it sucks, and Bungie have to do better than it. That sort of crap is not what people are paying for.
It's exactly what I'm playing for though, MMO style quests in an MMO style game? The absolute horror!
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,880
Yeah, and I'm saying that doesn't have to be the basis of the design, right? That's mostly my point. Bungie can design the game however they want, but these problems can be worked around (literally look at any MMO) by changing the design. These raids aren't even particularly deep in the scheme of things. I've done pub raids in FFXIV that are more complex than what Destiny has, and they are designed around being able to complete without having to talk to each other. I really doubt it's impossible for Bungie to do that too.

Also, by changing how that works (ex, one of 10 symbols lights up and you ping that symbol instead of calling out said symbol) would solve the problem.
and that would dumb down the mechanics and players do not want this. People are saying crown of sorrow was too easy.
 
Jun 4, 2018
1,013
I feel like I've heard this exact sentence with the last 3-4 Destiny releases and expansions which is why I've still never jumped in.
"But for real this time!" I've always enjoyed Destiny, so never really needed there to be a savior-type expansion or update, but you're so right, that it feels like we've heard this since Taken King.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,880
Yeah, and I'm saying that doesn't have to be the basis of the design, right? That's mostly my point. Bungie can design the game however they want, but these problems can be worked around (literally look at any MMO) by changing the design. These raids aren't even particularly deep in the scheme of things. I've done pub raids in FFXIV that are more complex than what Destiny has, and they are designed around being able to complete without having to talk to each other. I really doubt it's impossible for Bungie to do that too.

Also, by changing how that works (ex, one of 10 symbols lights up and you ping that symbol instead of calling out said symbol) would solve the problem.
you should look up some of the mechanics in some destiny raids. This is what players want. They dont want simplicity.
 

Lord Radik

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4
if we are talking about raidfinder in wow...they dumb down the mechanics/damage so much that you can steamroll through it without really trying. To do this in destiny would be terrible. Raids are supposed to be hard. And they are supposed to get you to communicate and work with a team to solve.
The rewards were not on par with regular and mythic level raids. It gave people who would never have a chance to fight Deathwing, as an example, a chance to see some end game content. I'm an old dude with a family that doesn't have time any longer to wipe for 2-3 hours on an encounter but it was nice to be able to see everything the expansion had to offer, sans the bleeding edge loot. I totally understand your side of argument and would have rolled my eyes during my MMO hayday in the early aughts.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
you should look up some of the mechanics in some destiny raids. This is what players want. They dont want simplicity.
I have done the vast majority of Destiny raids since the original game launched. I've done most of the FFXIV raids as well. They have LFG and Matchmaking for raids.

I think we are just talking past each other and there's not a whole lot of value in doing that. I guess I just think saying "well, this is how it is and it shouldn't change" is a close minded approach. I feel like, similar to other ways they've made activities and mechanics accessible to more casual players, they could apply the same thing to raids without really sacrificing a whole lot. Being able to ping a visual object like a dragon instead of saying "dragon" doesn't really seem like it's "dumbing down" anything. Again, FFXIV has far more interesting/complex raid encounters with mechanics that run circles around what Destiny does and they (last I checked) have matchmaking as well as LFG for everything. The communication is mostly done via text and setting markers on the map. it's entirely possible to clear them without saying a single word. I don't see why Destiny cannot at least try to do that.

Verbal communication being a requirement for coordination seems like a cop-out to me.
 
Feb 21, 2019
706
Destiny does feel pretty good now in terms of progression. (They still have issues balancing pvp and pve....to the detriment of feeling awesome in pve, but, meh).

But yeah....there are plenty of activities to help grind your character up

I love Destiny, its my most played game ever...by multiples...but the constant hampster wheel has kinda run its course for me. Knowing that I don't have to do much but will get the bump up in a month or two really takes the steam out of grinding every day. But thats just me. Its still in a great place right now.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
I love Destiny, its my most played game ever...by multiples...but the constant hampster wheel has kinda run its course for me.
Part of me wishes they would get rid of the hamster wheel and instead focus on trying new and different systems. I don't think it provides a lot of value. Random rolls, drops, and other stuff along those lines allows for interesting enough progression. I feel like the light system is largely arbitrary and doesn't provide a lot of value.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,894
Honeymoon phase. IMO the changes are all positive but by end of November people will find the long term flaws with the new systems.
This tbh. And I have 400+ hours in the game and consider myself a big fan, but come on. "Trust them, they are just starting to meet their ambition" isn't a theme that a review should be hitting on when talking about a 3 year old game.
 
Oct 29, 2017
999
Noooooo, anything but options!
People who actually believe this must have never played in any of Destiny's raids. At best it would be one of the most frustrating experiences ever. At worst, EVEN in the event that all other 5 players you matched with are somehow using voice chat, one or two of them would quit an hour into it because they were stupid enough to queue thinking it would only take an hour or something.

These raids (when they launch and everyone has to figure them out) are sometimes a 12 hour commitment, where you need to continue the raid at a later date during the same week your group started it. When everyone in the group has completed it before, depending on the skill of the group and coordination, it can still take 3-4 hours. By the time a group well-versed enough with experience in that particular raid, only then can it take 45 minutes to an hour and a half, if you're lucky (especially if there are cheese/exploits involved).
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,927
Is this mostly about Bungie splitting from Activision and the game going F2P, or did the creator of the article not play TTK?
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
People who actually believe this must have never played in any of Destiny's raids. At best it would be one of the most frustrating experiences ever. At worst, EVEN in the event that all other 5 players you matched with somehow use voice chat, one or two of them would quit an hour into it because they were stupid enough to queue thinking it would only take an hour or something.

These Raids (when they launch) are sometimes a 12 hour commitment, where you need to continue the raid at a later date during the same week your group started it.
Have you ever played an MMO that has matchmade raids? They have solved for this for years at this point, and one of the solutions is simply offering an easier mode for players that don't have dedicated raid groups. There's hardly any downside to that, since the traditional mode that you and I play would still exist.

They also offer LFG though, which is the obvious middleground that still doesn't exist for whatever reason.
 

BashNasty

Member
Oct 30, 2017
915
Destiny 2 truly is amazing. I’ve loved it since day one, but it has just continued to get better and better.