Verge: "Destiny 2: Shadowkeep Is The Game Destiny Always Should Have Been"

ABK281

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,462
I was recently saying in the discord that they seem to have increased exotic drop rates... rng gonna rng, unfortunately.
I've seen many people say this and I haven't seen any in 45 hours of playtime so I'm not quite convinced the drops rates aren't lower and it's just RNG
 

KS93

Member
Oct 26, 2017
679
It's exactly what I'm playing for though, MMO style quests in an MMO style game? The absolute horror!
If your expectations are so low for the franchise that you can be happy with that for £30, you do you.

I'm not happy that bounties that Devrim Kay could have given me, but this time, "it's on the moon!" is being passed off as actual story content that I should pay for.
I know Destiny can do a lot better.
 
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Oct 29, 2017
999
Have you ever played an MMO that has matchmade raids? They have solved for this for years at this point, and one of the solutions is simply offering an easier mode for players that don't have dedicated raid groups. There's hardly any downside to that, since the traditional mode that you and I play would still exist.

They also offer LFG though, which is the obvious middleground that still doesn't exist for whatever reason.
I could get behind this only if they were somehow able to enforce voice chat being required to matchmake. It doesn't matter if they make the enemies easier to kill, the puzzles and challenges required in almost every single scenario in these raids are ALL about coordination. No level of making the raid easier would change this, unless they completely overhaul the raids to be doable without coordination.
 

Sunny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
215
LOL
"Destiny 1 should've been destiny 2"
Honestly it feels like Destiny 2 will never be what it should've been at launch.
 

Kadey

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,410
Southeastern PA
Gear, maps, certain abilities and weapons are still better in D1. So no. D2 has made a lot of nice changes but at the same time D1 has yet to be surpassed in many aspects.
 

blaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
208
UK
"Options are good" is my stance on most things, but this is a big, big exception. People do not want raid matchmaking, trust me. Sometimes I wish Bungie would implement it for a weekend just so people can see what a disaster that would be.

For raids, you need a coordinated team. No exceptions, no excuses, no substitutions. Doesn't matter how high your power level is or how well you can shoot. One person misses a callout, everyone dies. Six randoms that know the raid inside and out might just barely be able to do it (after some planning/group assignments), but keep in mind that's the ideal situation, and highly unlikely to happen given Bungie's sometimes-questionable matchmaking algorithm.

Guided Games are a good solution to the matchmaking problem, IMO. When you have one person (and one person only) who doesn't know the raid, it becomes manageable for five experienced clanmates to show them the ropes. You tip the scales any further than that, it's just going to end in frustration.
I'm not convinced by a MM raid setup but the idea of 6 randoms who know what they're doing just barely being able to complete them is a little silly, most of the raids are really not that complex if you have some basic communication skills (which I'm aware is not always the case), especially the older ones that people are now much higher power levels than required so can usually 1 phase bosses.

An in-game LFG seems like the best compromise really, remove the need to go to the Bungie website/app to find players and just give people the option to form a team directly in game instead. They're already giving people the ability to group up with randoms they just haven't bothered bringing it in-game, they're much more capable of using player stats for allowing people to request very specific conditions to join too. Guided games is great for completely new players but it's not a replacement for a party finder.
 
Oct 29, 2017
999
I think an in-game LFG system for Raids would be the best alternative. So I can kick anyone who thinks I'd be willing to commit my time to playing with someone not willing to voice chat during it and find someone who would.
 

Fakling

Member
Oct 30, 2017
65
For those who played D1 and had 1 year without content, refreshed content > no content at all. Raid is stellar, Moon is nostalgic and new areas look amazing and Dungeon is not even out. Can't wait for more.
 
Feb 21, 2019
706
Part of me wishes they would get rid of the hamster wheel and instead focus on trying new and different systems. I don't think it provides a lot of value. Random rolls, drops, and other stuff along those lines allows for interesting enough progression. I feel like the light system is largely arbitrary and doesn't provide a lot of value.
I wish they experimented with that. We got the heart ripped out with Destiny 2, static rolls, easy light...but they didn't introduce dyanmic rolls with easy light.

I mean, its not all that imperative...Runninjg the raid for normal folks will be about 940....Thats a few weeks of grinding. That is about right as the raid is supposed to be the toughest content.

For me personally, since I don't have the time to raid anymore (its just...eff man....it takes forever), I have lost the will to keep grinding....

It feels about right now....there are alot of ways to get that one or two slots better gear...more than enough to keep a normal player busy.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
18,998
It's exactly what I'm playing for though, MMO style quests in an MMO style game? The absolute horror!
When was the last time you played an MMO? Also Destiny was not and is not an MMO.
For those who played D1 and had 1 year without content, refreshed content > no content at all. Raid is stellar, Moon is nostalgic and new areas look amazing and Dungeon is not even out. Can't wait for more.
Oh wow, if the bar is 0 content at all then of course Shadowkeep/rehashed content would be great.
 
An in-game LFG seems like the best compromise really, remove the need to go to the Bungie website/app to find players and just give people the option to form a team directly in game instead. They're already giving people the ability to group up with randoms they just haven't bothered bringing it in-game, they're much more capable of using player stats for allowing people to request very specific conditions to join too.
I totally agree here. Destiny has always needed a serious version of in-game LFG, and even the app usually doesn't cut it that well.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,287
I've seen many people say this and I haven't seen any in 45 hours of playtime so I'm not quite convinced the drops rates aren't lower and it's just RNG
And I've heard many people say the opposite. It could easily be confirmation bias without any numbers, that is pretty easy to spread about.

When was the last time you played an MMO? Also Destiny was not and is not an MMO.

Oh wow, if the bar is 0 content at all then of course Shadowkeep/rehashed content would be great.
SK has a very good amount of content for the buy-in price, it just gets released over time and some of you can't wrap you head around that.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
I wish they experimented with that. We got the heart ripped out with Destiny 2, static rolls, easy light...but they didn't introduce dyanmic rolls with easy light.

I mean, its not all that imperative...Runninjg the raid for normal folks will be about 940....Thats a few weeks of grinding. That is about right as the raid is supposed to be the toughest content.

For me personally, since I don't have the time to raid anymore (its just...eff man....it takes forever), I have lost the will to keep grinding....

It feels about right now....there are alot of ways to get that one or two slots better gear...more than enough to keep a normal player busy.
I think the comparison is sour because of some of the conversation it brings up, but I really do think Destiny could do with some sort of crazy "WOAH!" change, not unlike what Warframe did when they introduced Plains of Eidolons (their open environment) or what they are doing with Empyrean.

I just feel like I haven't really seen a change like that in Destiny yet, and I think it's time for one. Gambit is the closes thing that I can think of. I would prefer them try and fail (Warframe's first iteration of the space combat archwing was pretty weak) with something drastically different as opposed to not trying at all.

I'm probably in the minority with that opinion though.
 

Sedated

Member
Apr 13, 2018
1,642
Started playing a week ago, liked it so much I bought all content same week. Im set for year 3 of d2. This game is a ton of fun and reminds me of the addiction i had with destiny 1(literally sold my ps3 to stop playing that game and focus on college then).

People asking for raid matchmaking are the same ones who dont play the game most likely.

I cant imagine how that is possible without people using mics and without someone teaching a newbie what to do in so and so part. In my run(did it with 2 groups, half with one then i had to leave and half with another) before starting off whatever room we entered in someone used to teach me and the other newbs what happens for like 10min assigning us roles etc. With matchmaking getting grouped with randoms who might not be using mic or might not be coordinating, it'll take hours to finally enter a team with suitable members(coz u cant kick others in matchmade teams so can only jump around from 1 group to the other) and maybe days to complete it and it still might not get completed assuming the player has patience to keep going at it for that long.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,049
When was the last time you played an MMO?
4 days ago, you wanna know what some of the quests objectives I finished in said MMO that day? "Slay 30 plaguebats" "Bring 30 bone fragments" "Bring 30 dark iron scraps"
Also Destiny was not and is not an MMO.
Bungie is now calling destiny an MMO, so take it up with them, not me.
 

TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,030
Long Island
Do Raids have matchmaking yet?
Do you really want to spend 4 hours trying to organize with people
I think the comparison is sour because of some of the conversation it brings up, but I really do think Destiny could do with some sort of crazy "WOAH!" change, not unlike what Warframe did when they introduced Plains of Eidolons (their open environment) or what they are doing with Empyrean.

I just feel like I haven't really seen a change like that in Destiny yet, and I think it's time for one. Gambit is the closes thing that I can think of. I would prefer them try and fail (Warframe's first iteration of the space combat archwing was pretty weak) with something drastically different as opposed to not trying at all.

I'm probably in the minority with that opinion though.
they did try and fail with destiny 2 vanilla
You rather them try and fail, I rather them triple down on the stuff we really want.

I much rather them cater to me than cater to people who may flake out after a month you know? Because that already happened this time 2 years ago.
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,812
People who actually believe this must have never played in any of Destiny's raids. At best it would be one of the most frustrating experiences ever. At worst, EVEN in the event that all other 5 players you matched with are somehow using voice chat, one or two of them would quit an hour into it because they were stupid enough to queue thinking it would only take an hour or something.

These raids (when they launch and everyone has to figure them out) are sometimes a 12 hour commitment, where you need to continue the raid at a later date during the same week your group started it. When everyone in the group has completed it before, depending on the skill of the group and coordination, it can still take 3-4 hours. By the time a group well-versed enough with experience in that particular raid, only then can it take 45 minutes to an hour and a half, if you're lucky (especially if there are cheese/exploits involved).
eh, i think this is overblown. i've done every raid in the game except for the latest, and every time i've done it i've done it with random people on a discord LFG, including flawless runs.

so, i don't see why it would be a bad idea to have an in-game LFG system like in PoE or overwatch where you can post a description of what you're looking for and look for people to join your group. you can sherpa people or look for people who know what they're doing that way.

it's not matchmaking but it would be more welcoming for players
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,385
eh, i think this is overblown. i've done every raid in the game except for the latest, and every time i've done it i've done it with random people on a discord LFG, including flawless runs.

so, i don't see why it would be a bad idea to have an in-game LFG system like in PoE or overwatch where you can post a description of what you're looking for and look for people to join your group. you can sherpa people or look for people who know what they're doing that way.

it's not matchmaking but it would be more welcoming for players
In game LFG of some descript would make sense. Random matchmaking not so much.
 

SpokkX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,738
I'm sure Destiny is in a good spot now, but the phrase "Destiny is finally what it should have been!" has lost all meaning
Lol yes

Have heard the same thing after EVERY new expansion since Destiny 1

Fool me once..

Besides, the author of this article.. has played 700(!) hours of Destiny already. Biased? Nooooo
 
Oct 29, 2017
999
eh, i think this is overblown. i've done every raid in the game except for the latest, and every time i've done it i've done it with random people on a discord LFG, including flawless runs.

so, i don't see why it would be a bad idea to have an in-game LFG system like in PoE or overwatch where you can post a description of what you're looking for and look for people to join your group. you can sherpa people or look for people who know what they're doing that way.

it's not matchmaking but it would be more welcoming for players
Agreed, that post was in response to matchmaking. On this page (a few posts above yours) I stated:
I think an in-game LFG system for Raids would be the best alternative. So I can kick anyone who thinks I'd be willing to commit my time to playing with someone not willing to voice chat during it and find someone who would.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
Do you really want to spend 4 hours trying to organize with people

they did try and fail with destiny 2 vanilla
You rather them try and fail, I rather them triple down on the stuff we really want.

I much rather them cater to me than cater to people who may flake out after a month you know? Because that already happened this time 2 years ago.
I don't really think Destiny 2 was a big departure with regards to design. It was a big departure when it came to progression, and I agree that they tried and failed.

I'm talking about trying something drastically different for gameplay. Just throwing stuff at a wall: What if Destiny added space combat with the ship? What if Destiny social spaces on a per-clan basis? What if Destiny added weird-ass animal breeding?

Like, I'm not saying they need to add those things specifically, but more so "What if Destiny added some crazy shit out of left field?" What D2 did definitely was not that.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,049
I'm not happy that bounties that Devrim Kay could have given me, but this time, "it's on the moon!" is being passed off as actual story content that I should pay for.
I know Destiny can do a lot better.
Shadowkeep has plenty of new stuff in it worth the asking price, more of which continues to roll out every week, but please remain sounding misinformed by reducing the entire expansion down to bounties for whatever reason. If you are playing Destiny for meaty story content I'm afraid you're in the wrong place, I'm playing it for meaty endgame content, which the game continues to deliver me and my friends regularly.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,287
Lol yes

Have heard the same thing after EVERY new expansion since Destiny 1

Fool me once..

Besides, the author of this article.. has played 700(!) hours of Destiny already. Biased? Nooooo
That's because it keeps improving. Bias? They clearly enjoy it, like many if us do. We think this is a good expac for all the reasons people have listed (and the article goes into).

It's not bias, it's how we hoenstly feel. You are welcome to dislike it too, but try to to twist what other people enjoy into something it isn't.
 

TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,030
Long Island
I don't really think Destiny 2 was a big departure with regards to design. It was a big departure when it came to progression, and I agree that they tried and failed.

I'm talking about trying something drastically different for gameplay. Just throwing stuff at a wall: What if Destiny added space combat with the ship? What if Destiny social spaces on a per-clan basis? What if Destiny added weird-ass animal breeding?

Like, I'm not saying they need to add those things specifically, but more so "What if Destiny added some crazy shit out of left field?" What D2 did definitely was not that.
We don't need to play asteroids in game
We have SRL which they could go back to but won't because that means they need to spend money on creating rewards that they just don't have the resources for at this certain time.

A clan hub would be cool if it had proximity chat

I feel like they experimented with that by having the Calus vault
 
Feb 21, 2019
706
I think the comparison is sour because of some of the conversation it brings up, but I really do think Destiny could do with some sort of crazy "WOAH!" change, not unlike what Warframe did when they introduced Plains of Eidolons (their open environment) or what they are doing with Empyrean.

I just feel like I haven't really seen a change like that in Destiny yet, and I think it's time for one. Gambit is the closes thing that I can think of. I would prefer them try and fail (Warframe's first iteration of the space combat archwing was pretty weak) with something drastically different as opposed to not trying at all.

I'm probably in the minority with that opinion though.
Im with you. I understand its tough for a developer to take such a risk, but it would be cool to see Destiny really shake up the formula. We all say "its in a better place" (and it is), but really, its the exact same gameplay loop since 2014 packaged in a different way (and gating content in a certain way).

I still love it, but its running a little thin...They have moved the ball on me one too many times for me to keep churning day one.
 
Jun 23, 2019
474
Can anyone give a neutral opinion about Shadowkeep to someone who has put a couple hundred hours into D2? I stopped playing around the start of the Forges and haven’t gone back since. Is it worth jumping back in for $39.99?
 

Bold One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,637
Lol yes

Have heard the same thing after EVERY new expansion since Destiny 1

Fool me once..

Besides, the author of this article.. has played 700(!) hours of Destiny already. Biased? Nooooo
Wait, wait, wait

The author is not credible because he has experience actually putting in time to understand the game?!

Holy shit, lad, I gotta hand it to you, this is a fresh angle, I thought I had heard it all


 
Oct 29, 2017
999
While not entirely necessary, I really hope in Destiny 3 they finally do more with player ships and make it like a player housing space. Sort of like a Normandy (Mass Effect) mini tower situation that lets you access missions/organize your fireteam and shit from orbit.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
We don't need to play asteroids in game
We have SRL which they could go back to but won't because that means they need to spend money on creating rewards that they just don't have the resources for at this certain time.

A clan hub would be cool if it had proximity chat

I feel like they experimented with that by having the Calus vault
To each his own, but I feel like you are being a bit overly dismissive and reductive.

I also am talking more broadly about some sweeping new "thing," with me mostly citing some of the stuff Warframe has introduced over the years that is really out of left field. D2 doesn't have to copy that, I'm talking about things along those lines in terms of being out of left field.

Destiny continues to build up vertically but not much horizontally.
 

SmugAcolyte

Member
Feb 4, 2018
134
On raid matchmaking:

Adding matchmaking to the basic nightfall has been a long requested feature and makes sense because the Adept nightfall mechanics are not that different from the regular strike’s mechanics.

Raids, however, are mechanically different from strikes in that your progression through the raid is gated by how well you verbally communicate.

Once you progress past a certain power level, the verbal communication can take a back seat to simply brute forcing through the raid mechanics, but the ability to verbally communicate is *always* there.

I’ve seen a few people suggest that Bungie should add a ping system to their raids, but that would be a mistake: The ping system was created to add a layer of cooperation atop the pretty chaotic state of nature found in battle royales and would therefore feel out of place.

Adding a ping system to the Hero nightfall *would* make sense—I’d love to ping my teammate from a few days ago and tell him that in the nightfall we are playing incoming void damage does a helluva lot more damage so stop standing in the purple flames plz.

Guided games should really be the natural go-between for those who want to raid and yet feel like they can’t because there are too many assholes in their way.

It was a step in the right direction but the incentives for both players and sherpas were misaligned. I’d like to write another lengthy post about how they could improve guided games, but I’ll save it for when we are all burnt out on Shadowkeep.

I hope that when Luke Smith talks about improving the MMO aspects of Destiny, helping people create lasting raid teams should be of utmost importance.

Hell, finding a good raid team is what turned me into a hardcore player and gave me a really good clan.

Make the main thing the main thing, Bungie.
 

DWarriorSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,065
PA
Dunno about this one.

I was looking forward to this expansion and it ended up being a mega letdown.

It was way too short, the loot outside exotics is still boring (also only 3 exotic armors of which only 1 is actually cool) and too much felt like a rehash.

I said it in the OT but i think I'm just ready for D3.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,377
On raid matchmaking:


Raids, however, are mechanically different from strikes in that your progression through the raid is gated by how well you verbally communicate.


I’ve seen a few people suggest that Bungie should add a ping system to their raids, but that would be a mistake: The ping system was created to add a layer of cooperation atop the pretty chaotic state of nature found in battle royales.

Adding a ping system to the Hero nightfall *would* make sense—I’d love to ping my teammate from a few days ago and tell him that in the nightfall we are playing incoming void damage does a helluva lot more damage so stop standing in the purple flames plz.
Raids don't have to be gated by verbal communication though. That was my point. Look at any other MMO raid. Do they require verbal communication to complete at the "normal" level? For the most part no, they don't.

I presented pings as a quick alternative, I thought I made that pretty clear. The overall point (which I did stress) was that there are probably ways that Bungie could design raids around some system besides talking to each other (contextual ping was an example) that would make voice not be required. Does yelling out "tiger!" require a significantly greater amount of skill than pointing at a tiger and pinging it? I dont' really think so. Again, I'm not saying that's the end-all solution, just that I don't buy that all raids need to require verbal communication to complete. MMOs have shown that is not necessary in the past while still having tiers of the raid that either require it or make it significantly easier to beat with verbal communication.

I don't know why I need to elaborate on this.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,653
I don't understand. This could have been said about foresaken, but this is a pretty standard fair expansion thats recycling a lot of content and nothing radical has been changed to suggest that this is somehow a brand new destiny. Its more destiny, thats a good thing and what a lot of people want. But its weird to suggest this was the expansion that got it to the right spot. Also its a far cry from what destiny always should have been. Destiny will likely never be the game it should have been.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,287
Can anyone give a neutral opinion about Shadowkeep to someone who has put a couple hundred hours into D2? I stopped playing around the start of the Forges and haven’t gone back since. Is it worth jumping back in for $39.99?
Read the thread, see what people are saying they enjoy and if you think it sounds like something you would enjoy too.

Not meaning to be dismissive, but the thread chatter is literally what you are asking for.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
16,389
Miami, FL
Well I'm certainly enjoying it. When I can play, anyway. Hard week of work. I've played like 1 hour total. Which I think anyone who knows me would find unusual enough to attempt to have the authorities check in on my still being alive.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,876
It never ceases to amaze how vehemently people will fight against raid matchmaking, the fact that only a tiny percentage of the player base has even played raids is ridiculous. Just give people the option and make voice mandatory.

And before y’all blow up my notifications. The discord didn’t do much for me, tried playing the Forsaken raid through it and barely found anyone cause majority of people have their statics.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,856
there are a lot of angles to criticize destiny but i can't believe people are still harping on wanting matchmaking for raids and provide a bevy of armchair developer suggestions for restrictions on it that would make for the longest queue times of your life and a shit experience. honestly, the raids are too esoteric for their own good that learning them just isn't fun (imo), but if you want to do them, putting a bunch of randoms in a group is an option but it's also a terrible waste of time and actively worse than simply not having one, because if they actually did go about it then the complaints would just pivot to wow this is such a shitty experience i can't believe they'd allow this.

if you want to waste 20 hours of your life trying to fit square pegs into round holes with randoms for every section until something actually works you're better off actually dusting off the social skills to look for a group.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,287
It never ceases to amaze how vehemently people will fight against raid matchmaking, the fact that only a tiny percentage of the player base has even played raids is ridiculous. Just give people the option and make voice mandatory.

And before y’all blow up my notifications. The discord didn’t do much for me, tried playing the Forsaken raid through it and barely found anyone cause majority of people have their statics.
Raid matchmaking would turn more people away from the activity than it would attract and potentially dilute the LFG pool.

It would require raids to be reworked, made easier to the point they no longer contain the challenges that make them unique activities.

It would create a new type of player, one that calls for MM raids to ba balanced and take away from other areas of development.

And so on...

There is a list of very good reasons why raid MM hasn't been introduced, and why it likely never will be.

You will find a raid if you involve yourself in the community. Everyone here who has raided was a new player finding the discord or OT at one point, just like you.

Destiny is a social game, while it might support some solo play the social aspect is the primary focus. Raids are the pinnacle social activity, they're designed to be exactly what they are.
 
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cHinzo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,436
Meh disagree. Shadowkeep only has 1 droppable exotic (Monte Carlo), which means u prolly not getting anything exciting from exotic engrams after getting Monte Carlo. Only 1 exotic armor piece per class, which u get from free from the campaign. The pinnacle weapons are terrible this expansion and most of the new guns are either copy pasted from previous expansions or straight up worse than the guns we already could get. There was no vendor refresh, so all the vendors have the same drops as last year.

The 'campaign' was short too it even got stretched by quests like unlock a certain armor piece by getting X amount of kills, which gets boring real quick. The new artifact mods don't work on exotic weapons, armor 2.0 has terrible limitations in terms of which mod u can apply to which element and makes it unnecessary tedious. Armor 1.0 is straight up superior if they didn't nerf the stats into oblivion to make people switch to 2.0.
The engram drops we're getting this season has been terrible too. Less and less drops with all the cool stuff put in the Eververse store which u can buy for silver only.

I do like the new raid though, but from the looks of it, they dropped the expansion a month or two too soon with the lack of meaningful weapons to chase for. It definitely wasn't worth the 35 bucks, compared to a DLC like Forsaken, which was huge and full of content (an actual story with a start and conclusion, 2 worlds, the best raid in Destiny 2, 9 new subclass trees which all felt different from the base subclasses and lots of new exotics and interesting weapons). At least it's a decent starting point for them to improve on throughout the seasons.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
3,942
Do Raids have matchmaking yet?
Co-op modes that would work with matchmaking like strikes, nightfalls, menagerie, etc do. And to be fair, some nightfalls would be considered raids on other games. Destiny Raids are designed around 6 players communicating effectively and all pulling their weight with intricate puzzles, many of which must be solved in the middle of boss fights. I doubt any Destiny 2 match-made fireteam would be able to make it through the first encounter of a raid.
 
Jun 23, 2019
474
Meh disagree. Shadowkeep only has 1 droppable exotic (Monte Carlo), which means u prolly not getting anything exciting from exotic engrams after getting Monte Carlo. Only 1 exotic armor piece per class, which u get from free from the campaign. The pinnacle weapons are terrible this expansion and most of the new guns are either copy pasted from previous expansions or straight up worse than the guns we already could get. There was no vendor refresh, so all the vendors have the same drops as last year.

The 'campaign' was short too it even got stretched by quests like unlock a certain armor piece by getting X amount of kills, which gets boring real quick. The new artifact mods don't work on exotic weapons, armor 2.0 has terrible limitations in terms of which mod u can apply to which element and makes it unnecessary tedious. Armor 1.0 is straight up superior if they didn't nerf the stats into oblivion to make people switch to 2.0.
The engram drops we're getting this season has been terrible too. Less and less drops with all the cool stuff put in the Eververse store which u can buy for silver only.

I do like the new raid though, but from the looks of it, they dropped the expansion a month or two too soon with the lack of meaningful weapons to chase for. It definitely wasn't worth the 35 bucks, compared to a DLC like Forsaken, which was huge and full of content (an actual story with a start and conclusion, 2 worlds, the best raid in Destiny 2, 9 new subclass trees which all felt different from the base subclasses and lots of new exotics and interesting weapons). At least it's a decent starting point for them to improve on throughout the seasons.
Yikes. Guess I’m skipping out on Shadowkeep then.
 

Rubblatus

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
679
Raids don't have to be gated by verbal communication though. That was my point. Look at any other MMO raid. Do they require verbal communication to complete at the "normal" level? For the most part no, they don't.
No, but other MMOs like WoW also don't require everyone to communicate at higher levels either, since withholding a ton of information is not really a thing in them. There's only been one mythic encounter in the three years I raided that limited information to the degree that basic Destiny raids do with King Mekkatorque. That was a fight that on Heroic limited information of a three digit code to everyone who wasn't inside a robot which meant only one person (Usually the raid leader who was doing all the call outs anyway) had to announce the code for all three robot pilots. The Mythic version limited this information further to where only the robot pilots (Who couldn't see their own code) could see and communicate this information to the other pilots which pushed the burden onto the players who were actually interacting with the mechanic.
For the record, this was a massive pain in the ass for the majority of my guild who never HAD to personally communicate mechanics before. We ended up having to depend on having the five or so more vocal players to carry as many of those phases possible so the other 15 didn't have to do it unless we got really unlucky.
Outside of that, sometimes the raid will be split into two or three groups and need to coordinate their damage output for reasons. In practice that sounds like a similar degree of communication, but in execution it just means you have one person for each group (Out of 10-20 players) handling those call outs.

Destiny by contrast specifically designs a ton of its raid encounters to withhold information from other members of your fire team either by only rendering it to a single player like with the Mekkatorque example (I.E. Calus icon call outs) or physically designing a space of an encounter to exploit a player's narrow perspective to obstruct information from everyone else.

It's kind of a key pillar in just about every single Destiny 2 raid encounter I've played. I don't think you can remove the issue-causing encounter mechanics in a given fight without physically changing how these spaces are built from the jump and stripping out everything that makes Destiny raids interesting to play.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the Menagerie is actually a really strong example of the sort of encounters that would be the base to be expanded upon with harder mechanics, if the expectation is that the fireteam should rarely split more than two ways, have relatively constant visibility of most of the group/room and not have to coordinate a single mechanic.
 
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ByWatterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
702
I honestly feel sorry for folks who can't seem to catch the Destiny bug. It remains such a unique experience.
 
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