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SlayerSaint

Member
Jan 6, 2019
2,091
So due to it leaving Xbox Gamepass soon, I burned through my first full playthrough of RE4 ever. Figured it was finally the time.

Right away - first thing you notice is the camera. It's not great by 2020 standards. This is the one constant downside throughout the game, but for 2005 it was revolutionary. It just doesn't hold up. This is about the only thing to fix really if they make an RE4 remake. That and then just make the game perform and look better obviously.

Other than that? Not a single complaint. The story is classic RE campy, you don't play RE for the story you just enjoy the one liners and cheesiness for what it is. It's fun. The game design on display here is impeccable. There is never a dull moment, it is absolutely perfectly paced. I've never played a game this well paced. The closest would probably be The Last of Us but even it has a dull moment or 2. Not once while playing RE4 did I think "man it's really dragging right now" or "I wish I could get to the next part" (except for in a horror way - that damn invisible bugs section was my nightmare fuel).

The inventory management is perfect as always, you come to expect this from RE. It's enough to make you think about it but not so much to where you're just annoyed (looking at you, games with easy to reach over encumbrance). I was always low enough on ammo to be thinking about it but high enough to not be completely screwed at any point. There was a time I had to go all out with the TMP and taking out enemy's legs because I lacked everything else, but that was the extent of it.

Ashley could be annoying I guess, though I never felt at the expense of the fun. Just those "LEOOOOOOOOOOON" screeches could be a little irritating, but in the end I was happy to hear it cause I was glad to finally escape with her.

The action to horror ratio in this is definitely further tilted towards action - and this is where many attribute RE turning into an action series rather than a horror one, understandably so. But I prefer it how it is in this game. And I certainly didn't lack for scares, it was no RE2 but when you hate insects and see invisible creepy bugs or you get jump scared by an enemy falling on you, there are some scares to be had. I was straight up freaked out in the sewers.

Final point: This game was just pure fun. And I think retroactively I can say, 15 years later and there still hasn't been a game this perfectly paced - not that I've played every possible contender out there. Also bring back the Merchant. What a guy.
 
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Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
Pacing very well might be RE4's biggest strength, the way it keeps chugging along from set piece to set piece. A masterpiece.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
I don't know, I thought the Island section of the game to be a huge pacing killer after the castle being so good.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
One of the GOATs. My favorite podcast/party chat game too. I just wish the PS3/4 had platinum trophies :\
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,968
The pacing in the third part drags quite a bit, imo.

Everything before it is a masterpiece, though.
 

Beuntje

Member
Oct 29, 2017
183
Also gave it a try with Game Pass, but couldn't get past the first encounter with multiple villagers, kept dying all the time and gave up.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
I don't know, I thought the Island section of the game to be a huge pacing killer after the castle being so good.

Yeah the more I've played the more I always don't like that part of the game, though it's not the pacing for me. It's the enemies that I think are just not as fun to fight as a bunch of villagers and their projectiles.
 

Ahti

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 6, 2017
9,201
No lies detected. In terms of pacing, Capcom developed (at least?) two masterpieces: RE4 and DMC3.
 

Mack

Banned
May 30, 2019
1,653
Best Resident Evil game ever made. Bought a Nintendo Game Cube just to play it and it was worth it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,494
I don't know. I just can't like this game. I get that I'm in the wrong because everyone praises it to hell and back, but I just can't wrap my head about what makes it any good. As for the pacing, I thought it was a huge drag, especially when the insta-fail QTEs make you replay a section.

This game is just not for me.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
This game having "perfect pacing" is just something people mindlessly parrot at this point. How in the world do people actually spout this shit when the island is legitimately boring and the castle has several bad portions to it? The village is the only part that I'd call perfection in game design. The game is in desperate need of some editing.

RE4 is still a phenomenal achievement though.
Also gave it a try with Game Pass, but couldn't get past the first encounter with multiple villagers, kept dying all the time and gave up.
The very beginning in the town square? If you feel like going back to it, you're supposed to grab the shotgun on the second floor of that house, then camp on the first floor with it. It's extremely easy, but maybe the method isn't so obvious.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Glad you enjoyed it

I don't trust anyone who says RE4 needs to be remade

I get people might want a remake, but people who think it needs to be remade can't be trusted
 
OP
OP
SlayerSaint

SlayerSaint

Member
Jan 6, 2019
2,091
This game having "perfect pacing" is just something people mindlessly parrot at this point. How in the world do people actually spout this shit when the island is legitimately boring and the castle has several bad portions to it? The village is the only part that I'd call perfection in game design. The game is in desperate need of some editing.

RE4 is still a phenomenal achievement though.

The very beginning in the town square? If you feel like going back to it, you're supposed to grab the shotgun on the second floor of that house, then camp on the first floor with it. It's extremely easy, but maybe the method isn't so obvious.

Probably because I didn't find the island boring at all? Nah, clearly my first thoughts after playing it were "everyone else says this is perfectly paced so it must be" and not actually "wow that never got boring or dragged imo."
 

5pectre

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,237
I've never really played RE4. I tried to start it a couple of times and get utterly destroyed in the first village. I think that one and RE0 are the only mainline Resident Evil games I haven't played.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,968
Also gave it a try with Game Pass, but couldn't get past the first encounter with multiple villagers, kept dying all the time and gave up.
I've never really played RE4. I tried to start it a couple of times and get utterly destroyed in the first village. I think that one and RE0 are the only mainline Resident Evil games I haven't played.
That encounter is pretty much teaching you how to deal with crowds of enemies. You get grenades, a shotgun, choke points... I would really recommend giving it another shot if you like RE games because this game has far too many amazing parts you're missing out on.

If you have to, look up videos on YT and copy. At least then you'll know how, better than just skipping it imo.
 

Ωλ7XL9

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,250
One of the greatest games of all time. You could clearly see how every other game from other studios took inspiration from it. Now if you could please give us an Re4 with RE2 graphics :)
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
This game having "perfect pacing" is just something people mindlessly parrot at this point. How in the world do people actually spout this shit when the island is legitimately boring and the castle has several bad portions to it? The village is the only part that I'd call perfection in game design. The game is in desperate need of some editing.
What do you find boring about the island? Regenerators, Krauser, U-3... the only parts of the final third I don't much care for are the segment with Ashley driving the truck, and the gauntlet with Mike helping Leon.

Also curious what you don't like about the castle, because as of right now, I find it's something else folks tend to "mindlessly parrot": that RE4 is more or less only good in the first third, and then with the castle and the island, it just... stops being good, I guess?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,968
What do you find boring about the island? Regenerators, Krauser, U-3... the only parts of the final third I don't much care for are the segment with Ashley driving the truck, and the gauntlet with Mike helping Leon.

Also curious what you don't like about the castle, because as of right now, I find it's something else folks tend to "mindlessly parrot": that RE4 is more or less only good in the first third, and then with the castle and the island, it just... stops being good, I guess?
The castle is the best part. It's amazing from start to finish.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
The castle is the best part. It's amazing from start to finish.
Yeah, it's so varied and memorable! The flaming catapults, the initial encounter with a Garrador, the Novistadores in the sewer area, Salazar (and his giant statue), the Verdugo survival / boss fight (my favorite boss encounter in all of RE), and much more.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,968
Yeah, it's so varied and memorable! The flaming catapults, the initial encounter with a Garrador, the Novistadores in the sewer area, Salazar (and his giant statue), the Verdugo survival / boss fight (my favorite boss encounter in all of RE), and much more.
Exactly. It's both super video game-y in the best Capcom way in terms of mechanics and variety of gameplay and exploration, and has incredible atmosphere and a real sense of place. The castle section is one of the most fun environments I've ever played through.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
Exactly. It's both super video game-y in the best Capcom way in terms of mechanics and variety of gameplay and exploration, and has incredible atmosphere and a real sense of place. The castle section is one of the most fun environments I've ever played through.
Yeah, it's brilliant stuff. I'm just running through all the awesome things about it in my head now: in addition to the aforementioned bits, there's that creepy part where you play as Ashley and all the suits of armor start attacking you, the infamous water room encounter, the mine cart ride, the fucking lava chamber in a castle for some reason... it's very unabashedly video gamey, in all the best of ways.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Glad you enjoyed it

I don't trust anyone who says RE4 needs to be remade

I get people might want a remake, but people who think it needs to be remade can't be trusted

I'm too worried a remake would ruin it. So much of it is so tightly designed around its own constraints that even just aiming with the Wiimote breaks the whole thing. Imagine if they remade the game and Leon was more mobile and guns didn't have distinct "wobbles" any more. They'd have to totally redesign basically every enemy in the game to compensate.
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
Only RE that I really can't get on with and I know it's highly praised and considered, but I just can't find the the charm in it.

I still prefer the pacing and atmosphere of the first three games. The pre-rendered backdrops might have been the result of a tech limitation, but they made for super-detailed environments that really made the world feel lived in - something it would'n't be possible to replicate in 3D for decades to come. By contrast, RE4 looks ugly and sparse.

I know I should play it, but I don't think I ever will - I just can't get past the narrow POV, the dated tank controls, the weird camera ticks and the redundant 'break wooden boxes' mechanic when finding things just lying around the environment (as the series returned to doing in VII and RE2make) was never broken and wasn't in need of fixing.

Not to slight anyone who loves it - I never played it at the time and, if I had, I might feel differently.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Glad you enjoyed it

I don't trust anyone who says RE4 needs to be remade

I get people might want a remake, but people who think it needs to be remade can't be trusted
And give it the treatment RE2 got? No, I agree they shouldn't.

RE2 deserved the kind of remake it got, with the cuts and all. The original still exists but the original was too outdated to be marketable for new people, in the same way RE4 is still pretty good for first players as an action game. If you remake RE4 it's gonna have weird downgrades to its design or its pacing. I guarantee it.
 

merchantdude

Member
Oct 29, 2017
276
Maybe I'm crazy but I always enjoyed the island more than the castle. Village is definitely the best part of the game though.
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,076
It might be my favorite game ever, but I'm one of those who thinks it could be touched up a bit. Like, I think it would work fine with RE2 Remake's control scheme, so I wouldn't mind seeing them retrofit it with the option to choose it for newcomers. I also think it would benefit from letting you change weapons without having to go into the menu. That's the only thing I really dislike in replays.
 

Santar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,006
Norway
Even though I enjoy the classic survival horror style more, RE 4 is a classic that's for sure. So well designed and no the controls are not bad, you just have to get used to them. Prince of Persia didn't play like Super Mario Bros, but that didn't make it a bad platformer.
I feel people have become too quick to give up once something doesn't control or play like they expect.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,805
I have replayed it last year and thought the action was lacking. It was one of my favs in the past but in todays world the shootouts just don't feel like anything special and without the horror atmosphere it just can't hold my attention. The only time the game got my blood pumping was the barricaded house section other than that i was bored. The shooting itself is fine it's just the fights themselves that are lacking. Really hope it gets remade because it could need some tuning.
 
Jan 9, 2018
4,406
Sweden
I honestly think it dragged a little (long ass game), and it remade RE from survival horror to genocide TPS, but all in all it was a good game, I guess.
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
I think in retrospect your OP is very well stated / argued. Very glad you got a chance to play through one of the finest pieces of game software ever crafted.

That I was comparing Breath of the Wild to RE4 in my own mind as I first played it in 2017 tells you how long we can go without experiencing new masterpieces in this industry. In the end for both of those games it was the gameplay and design that made them significant cuts above the rest, and I could *feel* it in BOTW just like I could feel it in RE4.
 

Net_Wrecker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,734
And I think retroactively I can say, 15 years later and there still hasn't been a game this perfectly paced - not that I've played every possible contender out there.

As someone who HAS played every contender, trust me when i say nothing comes close, and with the way gaming is going, RE4 will likely be unchallenged forever. There's just too much in there to make an equivalent game with today's visual fidelity, and any dev that actually has the money to attempt it are either making open world games or aren't as talented.
 

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,904
Like, not enjoying the game all that much in the first place really made the pacing issues the game definitely does have even more noticeable for me. I definitely don't dispute that pacing early on is something this game excels at. Like, really excels at. But it gets worse later on, and the island is the worst of it all.

I get people liking 4, but 4, 5 and 6 definitely were not for me, and the Revelations games I could just barely tolerate. Ever since 7 though, really enjoying current gen RE.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,380
It's a perfect game from beginning to end. It holds up incredibly well, even in 2020. The only game that exists and rivals its pacing is Chrono Trigger. It's absolutely bursting at the seams with free, additional content. The set pieces and enemy encounter are the gold standard for how to marry gameplay mechanics with enemy tension. It's just pure fun, and I play it once a year because of that.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,114
Yes but did you use the MINE THROWER?! /shameless plug for my failed thread

Let me tell ya, replaying Resi 4 and Resi 5 back to back really highlights just how good 4 is.
The game always has something new to reveal, a twist on previous encounters, the right amount of ebb and flow between combat and downtime.
The implementation of treasure and how that ties into your weapon upgrades is one of the more understated aspects of this game, something that keeps you engaged with the environment and drip feeds steady upgrades.

Then Resi 5 arrives and is like "what if we did literally everything worse?"
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
If only pacing alone would make it a fun game for me. Played until that escort part. Didn't like the controls, didn't like the colour palette and Leon wasn't someone I could identify with as he didn't strike me as a complex character. The shooting part was ok or mediocre, the puzzles were good. The pace of the story was too slow for me so in the end I dropped it.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
Resident Evil 4 is the peak of the SD (standard definition) era of gaming and due to the immense resources needed to make a AAA game in the HD era, we will never see anything like it again.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
The combat is fun but the story and characters (aside from the merchant) are awful and not in a way that I found enjoyable. On top of that the camera is stiff and Leon controls like an RC car.

It's far from perfect but the imperfections are easy to ignore once you realize you can suplex the zombie plague priests.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
Ugh, the overly long castle section and the overly long island section are all evidence of extremely poor pacing.