Discussion in 'EtcetEra' started by Piecake, Sep 9, 2018.
I still feel like this discussion over whether or not the protests are disrespectful to the flag is 100% intended as a distraction from the actual purpose of the protests, and it bothers me whenever anyone chooses to engage with that particular distraction.
The players are protesting police brutality. Full stop.
The whole "kneeling is disrespecting veterans" thing is asinine considering Kaepernick kneeling was a suggestion from a veteran in the first place. It's a disingenuous argument invented by Fox News and conservatives to try and prevent anyone from protesting racism in this country in any way.
Service before self was always my favorite part to think about. I agree with basically the entirety of the Op-Ed.
“Anyone not respecting the flag should be deported” is the most un-American thing you can say.
So we've determined one group whose opinion isn't fact. Let's keep this going.
Deported... to where?
I’m a former soldier (not technically a full-fledged veteran because I was never deployed). I don’t feel insulted by someone kneeling. I don’t salute the flag myself because forced patriotism is stupid.
Black lives matter, period.
It's wrong because veterans weren't fighting for the vague ideas of a flag and an anthem, that wasn't part of their oath. They were fighting for and protecting the Constitution, part of which protects a person's right to "disrespect the flag".
If one person is offended, then it's offensive. That being said, the person who is allegedly doing that offending has the right to do so. Saying that a person protesting "should be deported" is about the most unamerican as you can get. It's not exactly the first time that a group of people objected to a country's treatment of them and their rights. I believe they called one instance the American Revolutionary War.
They could hold up signs saying "Fuck the Police" during the anthem and they would still hold the moral high ground.
Never heard a single veteran or active member in the military criticize kneeling.
Also, where exactly would they be deported to???
I'm glad someone said it and I'm glad that someone is a veteran: our sense of patriotism is poisoned. There are PLENTY of people - especially where I live - who do in fact believe that soldiers are more entitled than civilians, and not just to discounts or free drinks. It's a real problem that's difficult to address without being accused of attacking veterans but the reverence dances dangerously close to worship and elevation above other citizens.
This, and most "support the troops" bullshit, is really just empty rhetoric used to keep people from criticizing things about the country that certain groups don't want criticized. It's patriotism weaponized.
Protesting cops killing black kids?
You don't support the troops!
Criticizing spending trillions of dollars on "defense" while millions of Americans don't have healthcare?
You don't support the troops!
Think the minimum wage is too low?
You, uhh....sure yeah, you don't support the troops!
Exercising the right to free speech that the troops fight to protect?
You don't support the troops!
Eat shit, assholes.
It's not a veteran thing, it's a conservative thing. It's a combination of treating the military as this irreproachable warrior caste (a result of America's insistence of hero-worshiping them) and attempts by the far-right to strip the protests of their original context (protesting police brutality against African-Americans).
As someone who served and deployed to a war zone and embarrassingly gets a bit emotional and overly patriotic during the anthem, I feel insulted and even angry when people co-op vet respect as a reason to try and punish protestors exorcising their patriotic right to proclaim "our country is fucking up". If it angers you that they kneel, good, it's supposed to hurt so you'll listen, but dont you dare deflect the pain of personal insight towards those who served.
The problem with this article is that it's assuming that the people rambling on about "it disrespects are troops!" are arguing in good faith and honestly think it's disrespectful to soldiers.
It's an excuse they're using to mask over their racism.
You know what really makes for a good ole shit on veterans? Employing racism to keep electing a party that wants to send them off to get wounded or die, then not fund any sort of healthcare or mental service that would seek to heal them.
Current active duty officer here. I've deployed to Afghanistan, if it matters.
Either those who kneel during the anthem are protesting police brutality and the objectively disproportionate way in which our criminal justice system impacts black Americans, especially young black men (which is what they're doing), or they're protesting the flag (which they aren't).
The Constitution does not protect "the troops." It prescribes how Congress funds the armed forces and appoints the President as their commander-in-chief.
On the other hand, the Constitution does guarantee due process under the law, which is violated each time a police officer summarily executes a black kid holding a Nerf gun.
It also prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, which is trampled upon each time states execute a mentally handicapped black man for a crime he didn't commit and which DNA evidence would prove his innocence.
And it requires the State not to engage in unreasonable searches and seizures, which happens to black and brown people on a daily basis when casual encounters with police turn into coercive situations that go far beyond pat-downs reasonably necessary to ensure officers' safety.
Members of the armed forces swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, not discounts at Arby's. I think a lot of us understand this. I completely understand those who refuse to kneel during the anthem, but when protesters astutely point out that police abuses themselves are wrapped up in constitutional abuses, they underscore the point that we're on the same side.
Allowing right-wing media to blast jingoism and obfuscate that point is the real crime.
Anyone who refuses those the right to peaceful protest should be deported.
Me, a veteran.
Fetishisation of the flag and the military in general is not a good trend.
Funny, I don’t see anyone in the Black community getting angry with Kaepernick.
Just a bunch of salty conservatives.
If it were Tim tebow taking a knee protesting Women’s rights to abortion, these fucks would be kneeling in their living rooms during the national anthem
Also, I regularly see veterans in my twitter feed going after dumbfucks trying to speak for them
I thought US troops were dying for corporations and elite interests? The flag is a facade.
Glorification of veterans is some of the strange things in the USA.
Good for you that served in the army, doesn't make you an authority for anything though.
It's so typical and predictable that white America has completely obscured what the protest is. The article should be "White America doesn't get to decide what kneeling is about"
The military has always had an authoritarian bent which is by nature (and is a good thing, as you do want soldiers who will do what they're told), but the problem is that the authoritarian mindset can make them bad civilians when they get out because they get ideas like this, like that American citizenship is or should be contingent on respect for symbols.
We all know It's cover for peoples bullshit racism.
If he was burning the flag I'd understand the outrage but kneeling.
Why some people are being so disingenuous about it is hilarious.
I respect you for serving, but expecting me to worship and venerate your every action and opinion is insane.
I’m pretty sure Republicans regard it as a foreign enemy
Patriotism and "the troops", are always the prefered scapegoat for GOP zealots. It's like their go to tool when it comes to causing divide and outrage in the public.
I was against the war in Iraq, and remember friends and family calling me a traitor, an arab supporter and "you dont support our troops" as a constant mantra, even though I always stressed my reasons and opinions for being against the war and bombing another country in a civilized manner.
Yeah, maybe fight for better payment instead of putting down other people, idiots.
What he's doing is literally OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE TROOPS AND THE FLAG.
Meanwhile an actual traitor and draft dodger gets to destroy him, endanger his life and suppress his first amendment rights from the Whitehouse.
WHAT AN ANSWER!