1. Piecake

    Piecake
    Member OP

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0ba440a71de4
     
  2. Nijhazer

    Nijhazer
    Member

    I still feel like this discussion over whether or not the protests are disrespectful to the flag is 100% intended as a distraction from the actual purpose of the protests, and it bothers me whenever anyone chooses to engage with that particular distraction.

    The players are protesting police brutality. Full stop.
     
  3. PlanetSmasher

    PlanetSmasher
    The Abominable Showman Member

    The whole "kneeling is disrespecting veterans" thing is asinine considering Kaepernick kneeling was a suggestion from a veteran in the first place. It's a disingenuous argument invented by Fox News and conservatives to try and prevent anyone from protesting racism in this country in any way.
     
  4. ShortNasty

    ShortNasty
    Member

    Service before self was always my favorite part to think about. I agree with basically the entirety of the Op-Ed.
     
  5. “Anyone not respecting the flag should be deported” is the most un-American thing you can say.
     
  6. zero_suit

    zero_suit
    Member

    It's been co-opted.
     
  7. jontin

    jontin
    Member

    So we've determined one group whose opinion isn't fact. Let's keep this going.

    And this is the truth.
     
  8. Borgnine

    Borgnine
    Member

    Deported... to where?
     
  9. gblues

    gblues
    Member

    I’m a former soldier (not technically a full-fledged veteran because I was never deployed). I don’t feel insulted by someone kneeling. I don’t salute the flag myself because forced patriotism is stupid.

    Black lives matter, period.
     
  10. Dishwalla

    Dishwalla
    Member

    It's wrong because veterans weren't fighting for the vague ideas of a flag and an anthem, that wasn't part of their oath. They were fighting for and protecting the Constitution, part of which protects a person's right to "disrespect the flag".
     
  11. Luchashaq

    Luchashaq
    Banned Member

    Ding ding ding, they ignore the fact that Kap listened to a vet who asked him to kneel instead of sit (anyone who has played football understands taking a knee to listen to a coach is not direspect lmao) so they can avoid talking about how broken American policing is.
     
  12. Beef Supreme

    Beef Supreme
    Member

    If one person is offended, then it's offensive. That being said, the person who is allegedly doing that offending has the right to do so. Saying that a person protesting "should be deported" is about the most unamerican as you can get. It's not exactly the first time that a group of people objected to a country's treatment of them and their rights. I believe they called one instance the American Revolutionary War.
     
  13. Geist

    Geist
    Community Resettler Member

    Absolutely. It's fucking kneeling, not burning a flag (which is also protected as free speech). It's the most respectful form of protest possible on National Television, too fucking respectful considering it's a protest against innocent black men getting shot to death.

    They could hold up signs saying "Fuck the Police" during the anthem and they would still hold the moral high ground.
     
  14. Replicant

    Replicant
    Member

    Never heard a single veteran or active member in the military criticize kneeling.
     
  15. Rad Bandolar

    Rad Bandolar
    Member

    If you took the oath and were subject to the UCMJ, you're a veteran. Full stop. Being deployed has nothing to do with it.
     
  16. DiipuSurotu

    DiipuSurotu
    Member

  17. squeakywheel

    squeakywheel
    Member

    Oh I've met a raging few (and far too many on FB). They're all diehard GOP and Fox news stans.
     
  18. shadowkat

    shadowkat
    Member

    Oh it absolutely is. They’ve changed the narrative.

    Also, where exactly would they be deported to???
     
  19. HStallion

    HStallion
    Member

    Damn that's an answer!
     
  20. Doober

    Doober
    Banned Member

    I'm glad someone said it and I'm glad that someone is a veteran: our sense of patriotism is poisoned. There are PLENTY of people - especially where I live - who do in fact believe that soldiers are more entitled than civilians, and not just to discounts or free drinks. It's a real problem that's difficult to address without being accused of attacking veterans but the reverence dances dangerously close to worship and elevation above other citizens.
     
  21. Pretty much. It’s not a veteran thing as my dad is a veteran. It’s the usually racist white people thing and they are co-opting veterans.
     
  22. Nude_Tayne

    Nude_Tayne
    Member

    This, and most "support the troops" bullshit, is really just empty rhetoric used to keep people from criticizing things about the country that certain groups don't want criticized. It's patriotism weaponized.

    Protesting cops killing black kids?
    You don't support the troops!

    Criticizing spending trillions of dollars on "defense" while millions of Americans don't have healthcare?
    You don't support the troops!

    Think the minimum wage is too low?
    You, uhh....sure yeah, you don't support the troops!

    Exercising the right to free speech that the troops fight to protect?
    You don't support the troops!

    Eat shit, assholes.
     
  23. bangai-o

    bangai-o
    Member

    Amazing what education can do to make a person think about things better.
     
  24. Watchtower

    Watchtower
    Member

    One branch of my extended family is a military family that has served in the Army and Navy. General consensus from them on the protests is that they don't like it and just want their football, but how offensive they find it varies. It should be noted, however, that the man who responds most negatively to the protests also spends most of his time in the Philippines, and has been strongly supportive of Duterte's current regime.

    It's not a veteran thing, it's a conservative thing. It's a combination of treating the military as this irreproachable warrior caste (a result of America's insistence of hero-worshiping them) and attempts by the far-right to strip the protests of their original context (protesting police brutality against African-Americans).
     
  25. Blade24070

    Blade24070
    Member

    And yet the suckers fall for it. Every time. Fox News has either a lot of power or people are moronic. Likely both.
     
  26. Midramble

    Midramble
    Member

    You served. You're a vet.

    As someone who served and deployed to a war zone and embarrassingly gets a bit emotional and overly patriotic during the anthem, I feel insulted and even angry when people co-op vet respect as a reason to try and punish protestors exorcising their patriotic right to proclaim "our country is fucking up". If it angers you that they kneel, good, it's supposed to hurt so you'll listen, but dont you dare deflect the pain of personal insight towards those who served.
     
  27. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    The problem with this article is that it's assuming that the people rambling on about "it disrespects are troops!" are arguing in good faith and honestly think it's disrespectful to soldiers.

    They're not.

    It's an excuse they're using to mask over their racism.
     
  28. Skelepuzzle

    Skelepuzzle
    Member

    You know what really makes for a good ole shit on veterans? Employing racism to keep electing a party that wants to send them off to get wounded or die, then not fund any sort of healthcare or mental service that would seek to heal them.
     
  29. lunarworks

    lunarworks
    Member

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
     
  30. Addie

    Addie
    Member

    Current active duty officer here. I've deployed to Afghanistan, if it matters.

    Either those who kneel during the anthem are protesting police brutality and the objectively disproportionate way in which our criminal justice system impacts black Americans, especially young black men (which is what they're doing), or they're protesting the flag (which they aren't).

    Either's okay.

    The Constitution does not protect "the troops." It prescribes how Congress funds the armed forces and appoints the President as their commander-in-chief.

    On the other hand, the Constitution does guarantee due process under the law, which is violated each time a police officer summarily executes a black kid holding a Nerf gun.

    It also prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, which is trampled upon each time states execute a mentally handicapped black man for a crime he didn't commit and which DNA evidence would prove his innocence.

    And it requires the State not to engage in unreasonable searches and seizures, which happens to black and brown people on a daily basis when casual encounters with police turn into coercive situations that go far beyond pat-downs reasonably necessary to ensure officers' safety.

    Members of the armed forces swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, not discounts at Arby's. I think a lot of us understand this. I completely understand those who refuse to kneel during the anthem, but when protesters astutely point out that police abuses themselves are wrapped up in constitutional abuses, they underscore the point that we're on the same side.

    Allowing right-wing media to blast jingoism and obfuscate that point is the real crime.
     
  31. blackhawk163

    blackhawk163
    Member

    Anyone who refuses those the right to peaceful protest should be deported.

    Signed

    Me, a veteran.
     
  32. Pet

    Pet
    Member

    A great response :).
     
  33. KojiKnight

    KojiKnight
    Member

    That's because that's exactly what it is, but the article in OP covers more ground than just that... To an extent there really is a growing caste system in that regard.
     
  34. bawjaws

    bawjaws
    Member

    Fetishisation of the flag and the military in general is not a good trend.
     
  35. legacyzero

    legacyzero
    Member

    Funny, I don’t see anyone in the Black community getting angry with Kaepernick.

    Just a bunch of salty conservatives.

    If it were Tim tebow taking a knee protesting Women’s rights to abortion, these fucks would be kneeling in their living rooms during the national anthem

    Also, I regularly see veterans in my twitter feed going after dumbfucks trying to speak for them
     
  36. GermanSy

    GermanSy
    Banned Member

    I thought US troops were dying for corporations and elite interests? The flag is a facade.
     
  37. Pmichael

    Pmichael
    Member

    Glorification of veterans is some of the strange things in the USA.

    Good for you that served in the army, doesn't make you an authority for anything though.
     
  38. MrRob

    MrRob
    Member

    It's so typical and predictable that white America has completely obscured what the protest is. The article should be "White America doesn't get to decide what kneeling is about"
     
  39. Ogodei

    Ogodei
    Member

    The military has always had an authoritarian bent which is by nature (and is a good thing, as you do want soldiers who will do what they're told), but the problem is that the authoritarian mindset can make them bad civilians when they get out because they get ideas like this, like that American citizenship is or should be contingent on respect for symbols.
     
  40. Dabanton

    Dabanton
    Member

    We all know It's cover for peoples bullshit racism.

    If he was burning the flag I'd understand the outrage but kneeling.

    Why some people are being so disingenuous about it is hilarious.
     
  41. ZackieChan

    ZackieChan
    Member

    TheRockorOrsonWellesClapping.gif
     
  42. Dream Machine

    Dream Machine
    Member

    Especially when you know friends and family who serve in the military that did it because it was a job that paid well, had good benefits, and let them travel. I'm not pretending every veteran is a crusader for morality simply for serving in the military.

    I respect you for serving, but expecting me to worship and venerate your every action and opinion is insane.
     
  43. Skyball Paint

    Skyball Paint
    Member

    Maybe California?
    I’m pretty sure Republicans regard it as a foreign enemy
     
  44. evilways811

    evilways811
    Banned Member

    Patriotism and "the troops", are always the prefered scapegoat for GOP zealots. It's like their go to tool when it comes to causing divide and outrage in the public.

    I was against the war in Iraq, and remember friends and family calling me a traitor, an arab supporter and "you dont support our troops" as a constant mantra, even though I always stressed my reasons and opinions for being against the war and bombing another country in a civilized manner.
     
  45. captive

    captive
    Member

    it's even more ridiculous when you consider the US hasn't actually been involved in arm conflict to "protect our freedom" as they often say, since WWII.
     
  46. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari
    Member

    Disclaimer: Glorification only applies if you're white and straight and don't expect things like medical care or equal rights.
     
  47. Pmichael

    Pmichael
    Member

    Still cracked me up reading veterans being against minimum wage because they serve literally for pennies.

    Yeah, maybe fight for better payment instead of putting down other people, idiots.
     
  48. Stinkles

    Stinkles
    343 Industries Verafied

    I'm shocked that this isn't mentioned every single time.

    What he's doing is literally OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE TROOPS AND THE FLAG.

    Meanwhile an actual traitor and draft dodger gets to destroy him, endanger his life and suppress his first amendment rights from the Whitehouse.
     
  49. Heromanz

    Heromanz
    Member

    I mean, even then that war wasn't fought to protect people's freedom. At least my freedom. That Narrative evolve over many years
     
  50. Naijaboy

    Naijaboy
    Member

    [​IMG]

    WHAT AN ANSWER!