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Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931
Posts which downplay or dismiss sexism, complain about outrage or outrage culture, or try to dismiss concerns based on the country from which the game came from will be met with bans. Please continue to report posts that violate our FAQ and ToS.

This article contains minor spoilers for Valkyria Chronicles 4.

This year has been defined by the #MeToo movement, and women around the world have been speaking out against decades of sexual harassment, assault, and mistreatment from men in positions of power.
Thanks to countless brave people coming forward and speaking out against such abuses, a worldwide re-examination on sexual misconduct has begun. Unfortunately, it seems Valkyria Chronicles 4 didn't get the memo.

A few hours into the game, the mood within Squad E, the battalion of troops you take charge of throughout the campaign, is jovial. You've just liberated the city of Reine from Imperial forces and are continuing to advance through their territory. Your squad has a chance to relax after a tough battle. Riley, one of the main characters and leading figures within the group, is talking with the commander – a childhood friend called Claude Wallace – about tweaking grenades to give them an edge against the enemy. Raz and Kai – two other characters within your squad who are also childhood friends – are watching this conversation from a distance. Kai's brother left the army and asked their sibling to take their place, so Kai disguised themselves as male and did as their brother asked.

Raz is the stereotypical bad boy. While watching the conversation between Riley and Claude unfold, Kai notes that they sense a void between the two characters. Raz responds by saying that it must be Kai's "women's intuition" kicking in. Kai snipes back, reminding Raz that, in the army, people see them as a man. Raz then stands up, walks behind Kai, and grabs their butt. "No guy's got an ass this tight."

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This scene sets the tone for the rest of Valkyria Chronicles 4's campaign. Although the game has a diverse cast of male and female characters with unique personalities, the women on either side of the war are degraded, sexually harassed, and mistreated.For women in this game, a respectful experience is impossible. When they're not being groped by their squad mates, the camera frames them at angles that accentuate their sexual value over their value to the squad. Whenever a character speaks positively of a women's contribution, it's condescending in tone. "At least she's good for something." A women's ability is never given the same level of treatment their technical skills would grant them as a man. At multiple points within the game's script, a woman is not even considered a person – they are merely a possession. After all, "A gentleman shouldn't keep his ladies waiting."

Even worse, the perpetrators of these sexist acts face no punishment. Many times, these moments of degradation occur openly and without shame. No one in the squad is surprised by Raz's derogatory comments towards women when they happen, and often they're allowed to pass without incident.
Upon arriving at the base for the first time, the men stare at a female navy officer while stating their desire to "swab her deck". The response to this is a resigned sigh. There's no comment on the fact these sexual advances may be unwanted.
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When you have a game like Valkyria Chronicles 4 that contains a distinct lack of condemnation or consequence for such actions, you are setting a dangerous precedent.It normalises the idea that women are inferior to men, that they exist for male satisfaction, and that unwanted sexual contact should be welcomed and not challenged. Such portrayals make it harder for attitudes towards women to change, even with the pressure of the #MeToo movement shedding light on the issue on a global scale.

More here

Your thoughts?
 
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Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
It's super gross and it's astounding that so few reviews addressed the sexual assault that's somehow acceptable in this game's narrative.

Good for VG247 to talk about it
 

Nitori

Member
Oct 29, 2017
372
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing sexism. Junior account.
This game won't be popular enough to influence people.
 
May 26, 2018
24,021
The day this no longer exists in Japanese entertainment might be when my grandchildren are grown.

And I say that with a large amount of uncertainty.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
An ass grabbing scene actually seems beyond the typical type of anime/Japan sexism to me. That's pretty crass.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Cue bullshit about artists vision should be respected or cultural norms should be given a wide berth.

This is reprehensible shit
 

BRSxIgnition

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
I haven't played the game yet as my copies are still in the post but isn't Raz an asshole in the beginning so he can develop more later?

I mean, I'm not going to give it a gold star but I'd forgive it a little if it's part of a character arc that sees him learn his lesson by the end.
 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
Wow I was considering buying this but DAMN the OP details are disgusting. How anyone would ever think these views are ok and perfectly fine to put in their game is beyond me
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I'll admit I was very off put by the events in the game myself .Everything Raz does really. But even Claude gets a little up skirt action as well, accidently mind you .However this is a problem with anime in general, and Valkyria is very anime .
 

Whittaker

Member
Jun 21, 2018
811
[Sigh] I'm a huge fan of the original and am excited to get my copy of VC4 in the mail today but I hated this stuff with Raz in the playable demo and was hoping it wouldn't be much of A Thing in the full game.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,826
inb4: Oh, it's okay, all Anime does this, so this game I like gets a pass.
I would not say it with those words but Japan is not exactly a very feminist country.
What meaningful difference is there between "hating women" and being anti-feminist? You get the same end result.
 

shinken

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,917
Damn, didn't expect that text "Check out that ass on that one". Are there games out there by big publishers with such straightforward text?
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,196
Yeah, it's really gross, and trying to dodge this type of stuff when you delve into the world of Japanese games is like walking through a minefield.

Casual sexism and homophobia everywhere, but there are times when it goes beyond that. Apparently, this is one of those times.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,018
I was already concerned given what I'd previously seen from the game, but it really sounds like they've gone full otaku pandering garbage with this one.
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,123
Inexcusable and completely backwards for military behavior, any behavior really, even if the game had them be "friends" so it would be acceptable (as people sometimes say it is - "my friend gets insulted when you don't comment on her ass" or whatever excuse people will say), it doesn't seem appropriate to have that behavior in a game. Though it's hardly a surprise, the content in question in the OP was known from the demo released last month (or more).

Too bad they didn't change it, and there's plenty of other sexist problems in the game as well, sadly. Definitely something developers and publishers should be more aware of doing (though perhaps they are very aware of it) and stop doing in games.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
Wow, so the game never confronts Raz' actions and lets him know he was wrong?

Not a good look
 

semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140
I haven't played the game yet as my copies are still in the post but isn't Raz an asshole in the beginning so he can develop more later?

I mean, I'm not going to give it a gold star but I'd forgive it a little if it's part of a character arc that sees him learn his lesson by the end.

yeah, i'd be interested in knowing if this was the case, as well. because, if the guy's being deliberately put forward as a prick as part of the story line, that'd basically justify his obnoxiousness...
 

RumbleHumble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,128
Raz sucks and this sucks and it's a fucking bummer. It reminds me of the bullshit hanging about in Persona 5, a game I otherwise adore completely.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,275
Canada
User Banned (Permanent): Downplaying concerns of sexism and harassment as "outrage"; history of severe infractions.
Doesn't she slap him to the ground as soon as he grabs her ass therefore establishing what he did was wrong and unacceptable? Not to mention their squad cheers her on for standing up for herself.



Oh look another misleading OP meant to drum up outrage so people who were never going to buy the game anyway can come in and get on their moral high ground by claiming they're not buying the game.
 

badcrumble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,732
Does Raz really not get any kind of comeuppance/learn to respect women by the end of the game? If it's just a character trait and not a clumsy angle for character *development* then that's really, really dumb and bad.
 

RecRoulette

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,044
Confused by the OP a bit, is it just that one character that does it or do multiple characters do it.

Not that it's okay by any stretch (that stuff goes beyond the usual "Oh Japan" stuff found in a lot of games), was just wondering if your entire group were pieces of garbage like that one guy.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Ireland
I don't want to read too much on the article for fear of spoilers but I am hoping that Raz's behaviour is a theme which develops and reaches some sort of level of condemnation and regret later in the game, rather than it being passed off as acceptable or some sort of twisted humour.
I thought Valkyria 1 handled the character of Rosie and the development of her prejudices and hateful actions very well in the context and I'm hoping for something similar here.
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.
User Banned (1 Week): Downplaying sexism; use of dismissive and mocking language in a sensitive topic.
I hope people don't get triggered to the point that they start insulting Japan or Japanese people.
 

gordofredito

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
2,992
started playing it a few hours on PC, I like it. Can't say I'm gonna stop playing because of this, but it will definitely make me sigh and roll my eyes when it happens
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,786
Even the little bit in the demo was off putting. Even for a Japanese anime looking game that guy seemed really off.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,890
  • Waiting till release day cause ya super classy
  • I'm only up to chapter 4, but Raz is a fuckin creep and the rest of the cast treats him as one
  • Article has spoilers, not the end of the world I hope but certainly has ruined the mystery around "Kai"
  • Unfortunately Japan has so much of a perv problem, there are train carriages dedicated to woman at certain times so they aren't harassed. Probably shouldn't be saying "unacceptable in 2018" when the country itself is no where near caught up to the rest of the world in this context
 

Acido

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,098
I only played an hour of the demo but it was enough for me to determine what kind of game it was.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,406
The issue with the problematic nature of the writing within Valkyria Chronicles 4 is that video games don't live in a bubble. Although many would like to argue otherwise, video games are inherently political and are influenced by the political leanings of their creators. Furthermore, video games can influence a person's views.
Thank you.


But yeah, I'm really sadden that VC4 has continued the series' trend of egregious sexualisation. I want a smarter sequel, both in terms of content and mechanics. Developers can do better, and so I wish that they, y'know, would; it's time for video games to grow up.
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.

Dude I love Xenoblade 2.

(But I agree that ass grabbing is too much, I never saw an anime with an ass grab so it is probably too much even for anime)