• Light/Dark

[VGC] Palworld embroiled in AI and Pokémon ‘plagiarism’ controversy

Reader mode
Red Kong XIX

Red Kong XIX

Member
Oct 11, 2020
8,671
www.videogameschronicle.com

Palworld embroiled in AI and Pokémon ‘plagiarism’ controversy | VGC

Social media users highlight character design similarities and developer’s generative AI…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com

Following Palworld's release on Friday, some X users collated perceived similarities between Palworld's 'Pals' and Pokémon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"It's not even subtle about its rip offs, how much else has it stolen?" wrote one user. Another added: "I want to like Palworld, but I don't know if I can support running existing Pokemon through a fusor and passing them off as 'new' IP".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

View: https://twitter.com/AutumnRaptor1/status/1747658670706409952

View: https://twitter.com/onion_mu/status/1748108600935919688

The situation is further muddled in the eyes of some by Pocketpair's historical relationship with generative AI tools. Artist Zaytri noted on X that one of its previous titles was 'AI: Art Imposter', a game which literally utilises an AI image generator as its core mechanic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The user also highlighted multiple historical X posts by Pocketpair's CEO Takuro Mizobe, in which he appeared to praise the potential of AI image generators for content creation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

View: https://twitter.com/imZaytri/status/1748432267792547987
 
Alavard

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,414
This may or may not go anywhere legally speaking, but I'm glad I know about it. I have no interest in playing a game where I suspect they just told their generative AI to make them legally distinct versions of all the Pokémon they could.
 
IMCaprica

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,614
I thought I was going crazy when they first showed that little pink monster in one of the trailers and the face is literally just Jigglypuff.
 
RomanticHeroX

RomanticHeroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,966
Yeah, it's really shameless. And pretty pathetic how instantly it's been embraced despite the plagiarism and otherwise derivative design.
 
Pyro

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,576
United States
I think the second tweet, combing elements of a Pokémon to create a new one, is fine. But the use of AI is fucked and the first tweet is just fillled with blatant ripoffs.
 
Watchtower

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,863
Oh we already milkshake-ducking this bitch, lmao.

Cannot say I'm surprised after seeing the AI game, lol.
 
poklane

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,696
the Netherlands
RockmanBN said:
Has anyone ripped the models to see if they're edits of the Pokemon models?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It definitely looks like at least some of the designs outright copied certain parts of certain Pokemon.
Example 1: compare the fin on this guy
GEH7lQ8WsAIy53f

To Sobble's fin
900px-0816Sobble.png

Or compares this guy's mouth and eyes
GEH7ow4XEAAtEhx

To Galarian Meowth
052Meowth-Galar.png



Person who spotted these 2 comparisons: https://twitter.com/Barbie_E4/status/1747954811054457044

I personally think they definitely used an AI which was fed Pokemon designs for at least some of these designs, and that said AI just 1-on-1 copied certain design aspects.
 
NabiscoFelt

NabiscoFelt

One Winged Slayer
Member
Aug 15, 2019
7,679
Remember folks, plagiarism and AI art is alright as long as you don't like the devs being ripped off

This feels insulting not only to the Pokemon designers but also all the other monster catcher games that don't feel the need to blatantly rip off other people's work
 
ListeningGarden

ListeningGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,511
this tweet stuck out to me as particularly damning for ai's involvement in pocket pair's development process, as the ceo openly admits that the company introduced ai to "improve work efficiency" and supposedly found that they could delegate all of the work to the ai itself



View: https://twitter.com/invert_x/status/1748495038898942380

r3by9za.png


how much this has to do with the creation of the designs is still up in the air, but it's pretty clear the company openly embraces the technology across the board if you have any care towards their ethics
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
The ripoffs are kind of whatever to me. It's much more blatant than most Pokemon-inspired games, but there are some genres of games where ripping off other media is common. It's wearing its inspiration on its sleeves so I'm not going to be more protective of it than I am around other video game ripoffs, like every other fighting game having Bruce Lee or Doom lifting its soundtrack from metal albums.

The AI thing is concerning, especially the quote, but I'm also not convinced yet that this is the nightmare scenario? The concern about AI is replacing human labour. If AI was used in design, than do we see the telltale signs of AI usage in the final game like body parts that don't make sense? I think it's entirely fair to be wary but I haven't seen anything so far that makes it clear that AI was used to rip off Pokemon instead of just the standard process of human artists ripping of Pokemon.
 
Last edited:
blueredandgold

blueredandgold

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,962
NabiscoFelt said:
Remember folks, plagiarism and AI art is alright as long as you don't like the devs being ripped off
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm the first to make such posts but I hesitate here because it would devolve into ad hominem attacks immediately due it to being frankly ian "in the eye of the beholder" issue before it's a plagiarism issue until we know more - which is doubtful anyway.
 

Garjon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,067
This is probably going to boost sales in the short term, in a get it while its still available way.
I'm actually slightly amazed it's still up
 
I Fall

I Fall

Member
Dec 31, 2023
234
Brazil
I can understand why companies would care about copyright. Money. Simple. But it's kind of mysterious for me why fans of the game being ripped off care.
 
TheChungusAmongUs

TheChungusAmongUs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,845
This is always why everytime someone says "there needs to be a serious competitor to pokemon" like this game, temtem, etc they are always going to fail no matter how "superior gameplay" they have to pokemon because Pokemon designs are just good.

I think it was genuinely funny people calling Palworld "pokemon with effort" when it is clearly just taking pokemon designs and jumbling them together
 
Sei

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,810
LA
Probably AI generated designs from a model that was trained on Pokemon art.

Nintendo lawyers could have a case.
 
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Chesire, UK
"Controversy"

None of these are remotely copies. They are similar. They have similarities.

Referenced. Inspired. Sure. This is how art works.

Until and unless somebody brings the receipts that they have literally ripped off Game Freak assets this is the latest nothing-burger from people who don't understand how IP law works.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,435
I Fall said:
I can understand why companies would care about copyright. Money. Simple. But it's kind of mysterious for me why fans of the game being ripped off care.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's the sort of thing that could tank an IP and potentially sink a company. Of course fans don't want to see that.
 

bickieditches

Member
Aug 5, 2018
550
Usually I'm a little skeptical of these claims but this is literally so blatant. I personally don't think this should be legal, but...
 
King Tubby

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,549
I'm not gonna regurgitate everything I've said in the other thread but given the examples I've seen I strongly doubt there would be much to sue over in a court of law. I'll leave it to people more seasoned in such matters to say for sure.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
TheChungusAmongUs said:
I think it was genuinely funny people calling Palworld "pokemon with effort" when it is clearly just taking pokemon designs and jumbling them together
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Regardless of your feelings on Palworld or this controversy, it's pretty clear that a lot of people will just use any opportunity to whine about how much they dislike Pokemon regardless of whether or not their whining makes a lick of sense.

If anything, Palworld did a great job of highlighting a niche for exactly that kind of weird online nerd.
 
Rosebud

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,398
TheChungusAmongUs said:
This is always why everytime someone says "there needs to be a serious competitor to pokemon" like this game, temtem, etc they are always going to fail no matter how "superior gameplay" they have to pokemon because Pokemon designs are just good.

I think it was genuinely funny people calling Palworld "pokemon with effort" when it is clearly just taking pokemon designs and jumbling them together
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This game is a survival so not really like Pokemon, only the monster designs are "similar"
 
Bradbury

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,864
Tygre said:
"Controversy"

None of these are remotely copies. They are similar. They have similarities.

Referenced. Inspired. Sure. This is how art works.

Until and unless somebody brings the receipts that they have literally ripped off Game Freak assets this is the latest nothing-burger from people who don't understand how IP law works.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
it´s not inspiration when you get 1:1 parts and mesh them together, it´s thef. There´s a few that could be seem as inspiration but a lot of those literally have the same design with color swaps or mixing more than one Pokemon together.
 
I Fall

I Fall

Member
Dec 31, 2023
234
Brazil
B-Dubs said:
It's the sort of thing that could tank an IP and potentially sink a company. Of course fans don't want to see that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Seems a stretch to me. And too rational for reactions that sound a lot more emotional for what I'm reading in X. But I'm not particularly a big fan of this genre, so it's hard too understand a hard-core fan.
 
Jawbreaker

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,432
New York City
Find it difficult to care about this, tbh. The game isn't even a Pokemon clone. Lies of P has far more in common with Souls than this does with Pokemon, for example. If they were designed using AI, I can understand the moral argument at least.
 
Shoichi

Shoichi

Member
Jan 10, 2018
10,604
lot of the ones I've seen are just so blatant ripoffs of existing Pokemon. Just with a slight tweak. Not sure if Pokemon Company/Nintendo can do much about it but will be interesting what happens in the end. For the amount of creatures were developed. It's likely some AI or inspiration for many was used.

As someone who likes Lucario. This just is Lucario but Egyptian.

image.png
 
DeadbeatDisco

DeadbeatDisco

Member
Feb 26, 2019
80
To gamers, morality is contingent on the pre-determined basis of do I like or not like the game or who makes it lol
 
TheChungusAmongUs

TheChungusAmongUs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,845
L Thammy said:
Regardless of your feelings on Palworld or this controversy, it's pretty clear that a lot of people will just use any opportunity to whine about how much they dislike Pokemon regardless of whether or not their whining makes a lick of sense.

If anything, Palworld did a great job of highlighting a niche for exactly that kind of weird online nerd.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Rosebud said:
This game is a survival so not really like Pokemon, only the monster designs are "similar"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Which was why people using it to shit on modern pokemon was so confusing, because the game isn't even pokemon. If anything it's like they took the Pixelmon mod for Minecraft and made it it's own game
 
KillstealWolf

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,402
I feel if there was going to be a legal case, The Pokemon Company would have taken action much earlier before the game even got released. Palworld has been having trailers with some of these designs for years now. Even at big events like the Summer Games Fest.
 
Lost Heaven

Lost Heaven

Member
Aug 20, 2021
1,150
This was always obvious since the first reveal, the not-latios being the first one to stick out to me. If anything, to me it highlights why the other pokemon clones can't get as successful as this game..pokemon designs are just too good. This one has great designs because they copied pokemon. However if a lawsuit doesn't come out of this (and i think it won't), nobody will care, just like how the similar discourse around Genshin is pretty much dead.
 
TyraZaurus

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,486
This isn't about defending Game Freak or TCPi's interests. And I don't think any of these were literally derived from Pokemon directly in a way that's actionable.

But they just. Suck. They literally look like Pokemon and are designed to invoke the same reaction as Pokemon designs, in a world where competitors like Digimon and Yo-Kai Watch and every other series that thrives on unique monster designs are out there with their own unique style.

This is meant to play on people's appeal towards Pokemon. None of them are unique from Pokemon in the same way Agumon or Jibanyan are. Palworld may have done nothing legally wrong but they're still creatively bankrupt as far as creature design.
 
jman2050

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,873
The questions about the use of generative algorithms is quite legitimate, but I'd be hard-pressed to see Nintendo/TPCi winning any sort of copyright infringement litigation just based on comparison images alone. They'd likely have to prove that art assets from Pokemon games were wholesale copied or that there are art or text assets that infringe on Pokemon's various trademarks.

There's a difference between being a blatant ripoff (which this absolutely is in many respects) and being legally liable for infringement, which is much tougher to establish.
 
diakyu

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,700
There are multiple games released annually in the monster catching genre that all bring their own spin to the designs. Sure something like temtem have creatures that could be inspired by Pokémon but they're also in their own style that is distinct to the game and original style. Nexomon is also another game that does this well. The idea that the creative process would lead to this naturally just doesn't mesh with me. Why did they use bits and pieces of Pokémon designs when other monster catching games never do that?
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.