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chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
I doubt they that close , well i guess it depends on what you call close .
Cause something like a $30 difference is $300 million for 10 million consoles .

Imo 30 dollars is close difficult to do a huge difference in power when the gap is so low. if there is a BOM difference of 100 dollars or more, this is much easier like PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.

I don't talk from a financial point of view but a technical one. Sony SSD is faster but they needed to go with less storage size, at the end they all do different compromise. The Sony controller has more innovation but the BOM is more expensive. The cooling on PS5 side is very interesting like the continous boost idea and go narrow and fast. Microsoft did not go with 20GB of RAM at 560 GB/s because it was too expensive.

Consoles are made of compromise and at the end, the consoles are close in power. The XSX is fast enough in loading and will be enough for third party title.

Now each consoles have some advantages and weakness and it is to the first party to make them sing. For a launch it is not bad on Sony side with Demon's souls. Spiderman MM is pretty good for a cross gen game.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
User banned (permanent): Trolling with misinformation and platform wars. Multiple prior bans for the same.
Can you provide some proof of this? Because i've a 5700XT and my GPU can't do more than 1440p in every game lol
Can you provide evidence that it's consistently outperformed by a 5700? Not seeing this anywhere and just dropping stuff like this as if it's fact is not a good look for you.
Link too this 5700 comparison?
I'm not quoting any unknown information, pc benchmarks are quite common and public.

But for the sake of the argument, here's one example :

At around 7min mark you see it blasting 150fps on DMC5 in 1080p, while both SX and Ps5 struggled to reach 100fps.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
I'm not quoting any unknown information, pc benchmarks are quite common and public.

But for the sake of the argument, here's one example :

At around 7min mark you see it blasting 150fps on DMC5 in 1080p, while both SX and Ps5 struggled to reach 100fps.

Who said at 120 fps the bottleneck is the GPU maybe it is the CPU? ;) And it does not mean DMC 5 push or I would say exploit fully the PS5 and XSX CPU. Maybe they can improve the threading of the game for example.
 

DoctorOcho

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
36
I think it's more an explanation/rationale, than an excuse. Yes, it's on MS for not delivering from the start on the 'power' rhetoric. Yes, customers generally probably don't care for the 'whys'. But if we want to dig into the 'why', it's worth talking about the reasons, more out of interest than of making excuses. It's an interesting scenario, as I'm not sure we've had this kind of outcome - seeing so dramatically the influence of the software stack over hardware - in a long time. It's a good reminder than systems are more than the hardware. (The software stack was also hurting Xbox One performance for a time, but I think most didn't pay attention, and figured the hardware difference was enough of an explanation).

Very fair. I hope Microsoft comes through because so much of the value proposition for XsX is based on its power advantage along with Game Pass. If the power advantage is negligible, it is going to another rough generation
 

DoctorOcho

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
36
I'm not sure what your asking here. A new SDK for devs coupled with in hot, later than the PS5 has been confirmed. That would explain why we're not seeing much differences in multiplatform games.

I'm not asking anything. I'm stating that if the reason XsX can't showcase its power advantages comes down to tools then Microsoft really messed up given that performance is XsX's primary differentiator.
 

Paronth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
268
I'm not quoting any unknown information, pc benchmarks are quite common and public.

But for the sake of the argument, here's one example :

At around 7min mark you see it blasting 150fps on DMC5 in 1080p, while both SX and Ps5 struggled to reach 100fps.

Only mode in 1080p in DM5 is the Ray Tracing Performance Mode on consoles unlike to 5700 which has no ray tracing.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
What are those hardware advantages? Because ps5 is also consistently performing below a 5700, which is a match for specs save for the clocks and the fact that a 5700 has exclusive memory usage.

To make more clear, you are implying ps5 is punching above its weight due some customizations Sony may have done when in fact its also underperforming compared to its specs.
Please don't put words in my mouth and then use bad information to argue against points I never made.
 
Last edited:

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
I'm not quoting any unknown information, pc benchmarks are quite common and public.

But for the sake of the argument, here's one example :

At around 7min mark you see it blasting 150fps on DMC5 in 1080p, while both SX and Ps5 struggled to reach 100fps.
I am lost...

The PS5/XSX were struggling to hit 100fps in modes where the rez was at 4k. Not 1080p. And n the modes where they had RT on is where they ran at 1080p (RT performance) and above 1080p (RT quality). So I don't even get the comparison you are trying to make. If the PS5/XSX is averaging 80-90fps in their 4K modes (without RT), what do you think they would do if they were only running at 1080p without RT?
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
120 fps is probably CPU bound and here PC CPU are more powerful. But usage of the CPU will improve during the gen with better multithreaded game engine.

I am lost...

The PS5/XSX were struggling to hit 100fps in modes where the rez was at 4k. Not 1080p. And n the modes where they had RT on is where they ran at 1080p (RT performance) and above 1080p (RT quality). So I don't even get the comparison you are trying to make. If the PS5/XSX is averaging 80-90fps in their 4K modes (without RT), what do you think they would do if they were only running at 1080p without RT?

DMC 5 120 fps mode is 1080p.

DMC5 RT mode quality mode is 4k 30 fps, performance Rt mode is 1080p 60 fps.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
What are those hardware advantages? Because ps5 is also consistently performing below a 5700, which is a match for specs save for the clocks and the fact that a 5700 has exclusive memory usage.

To make more clear, you are implying ps5 is punching above its weight due some customizations Sony may have done when in fact its also underperforming compared to its specs.

Look who is once again trying his hardest to bash PS5 and arguing with a developer based on made up shit...
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
I think it's because a lot of people were essentially crapping on the PS5 for months, claiming that the XSX would definitely outperform it easily, and should definitely be the best place for multiplats. So these same people are probably annoyed that the PS5 is actually performing just as well, and in some small cases better than the XSX. I think you're right though - we should be happy that the consoles are so close and that there isn't so much of a disparity between them.

We should be happy we have two premium consoles who have taken a different outlook architecture wise (Microsoft went for power, Sony went for speed). The learnings we should have from this generation is going to be invaluable. It only bodes well for future console development to have such a competitive, close gaming environment right now.
Well said.

Before we got these comparisons, people on both camps were going up on a frenzy on the whole "full" RDNA vs "custom" solution from Sony. Thats not even including the Flops comparisons.

So these results are not aligning with what lots of people speculated. People are just confused lol why PS5 is even remotely this close to XSX. I mean SX should be at least 18%-20% better right?

Also I wonder if this was the "tease" some were saying about PS5 as in Sony's dev tools are more mature to a point that it makes development a bit "easier" thus being able to hold itself in a good light versus the competition. I do hope this "trend" continues so PS5 doesn't get left behind. (Sony keep improving their dev tools for developers)

I cant wait to see what ND and SSM has to offer this generation.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,130
Chicago
What the hell is this thread hitting ten pages for? The two consoles are pretty evenly matched and they perform well, all things considered. This is good news.

Stop being weird.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
I am lost...

The PS5/XSX were struggling to hit 100fps in modes where the rez was at 4k. Not 1080p. And n the modes where they had RT on is where they ran at 1080p (RT performance) and above 1080p (RT quality). So I don't even get the comparison you are trying to make. If the PS5/XSX is averaging 80-90fps in their 4K modes (without RT), what do you think they would do if they were only running at 1080p without RT?

Not worth it that user have a hate boner for PS5 larger than the actual PS5....
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,576
That's good news for everyone.

Both machines preform pretty much identical. I know some people will keep fighting over few fps here and some pixels there, but it's mostly the same experience on either console.

Which means people can buy their 3rd party games on their platform of choice without having any regrets or feel like getting the lesser version.
 

Bunzy

Banned
Nov 1, 2018
2,205
Great work and I'm excited to see future of both Xbox and PlayStation this gen, what a time to be a gamer
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
Well said.

Before we got these comparisons, people on both camps were going up on a frenzy on the whole "full" RDNA vs "custom" solution from Sony. Thats not even including the Flops comparisons.

So these results are not aligning with what lots of people speculated. People are just confused lol why PS5 is even remotely this close to XSX. I mean SX should be at least 18%-20% better right?

Also I wonder if this was the "tease" some were saying about PS5 as in Sony's dev tools are more mature to a point that it makes development a bit "easier" thus being able to hold itself in a good light versus the competition. I do hope this "trend" continues so PS5 doesn't get left behind. (Sony keep improving their dev tools for developers)

I cant wait to see what ND and SSM has to offer this generation.
What people don't realise is that even if we all admit an 18% overall performance benefit of Series X (which even this is debatable), such a performance gap is still so tiny in real world results than can be completely overturned by better development tools. Once we all understand this, we'll stop fighting over which console is superior and focus on games.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
What the hell is this thread hitting ten pages for? The two consoles are pretty evenly matched and they perform well, all things considered. This is good news.

Stop being weird.
Lol... and that's the reason for this thread... they are NOT supposed to be evenly matched. All things considered (by some at least).


Sorry Paronth and Pheonix the game is running under 100 fps at native 4k far above a 5700 or 5700 XT


Exactly... which is why I found the Lukas Taves posts comparing them to a 5700 ridiculous. Embarrassingly so if I might add.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
Optimised load times in first party software.

If there's an open world game that loads as fast as Spider-Man Miles Morales then please do share it.

But I have nothing to compare it to. There is no Miles Morales for Xbox or PC, which is why the sites doing comparisons are testing multiplatform games. How do you compare apples with oranges?
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
For last gen I tended to play SP games on my one X and multiplayer on my PS4 Pro, no real reason. In the back of my mind I figured the more powerful X would run stuff "better" but honestly I'm pretty sure it never really was that different between the two, and the videos in OP kinda seem to back that up for this new gen now too.

For this gen I'm going to try to play most games on PS5 and gamepass games on my series X, and the reason is the most banal of things: I prefer getting platinum trophies to 1000/1000GS. I don't even try most of the time, but if I do... well, thats it.

I must admit though Smart Delivery is looking nicer and nicer after I had a lot of issues with COD Black Ops on PS5 (game keeps wanting me to download and run the PS4 version instead of the PS5 edition I have installed), but hopefully Sony cleans that up a bit in the next few months.

Towards the end of the gen I mostly played games on my One X because I couldn't take the fan noise on my PS4 Pro any longer. Now that the PS5 has solved that I lean towards buying mostly everything on PS5 unless it's a Game Pass game or first party MS. I am a trophy/achievement whore though so I might end up buying the same game multiple times on each system.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
What people don't realise is that even if we all admit an 18% overall performance benefit of Series X (which even this is debatable), such a performance gap is still so tiny in real world results than can be completely overturned by better development tools. Once we all understand this, we'll stop fighting over which console is superior and focus on games.

Or that third party developers will make sure they get every last drop out of these systems when in reality they have a performance goal and that probably is the same for both these machines.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
Optimised load times in first party software.

If there's an open world game that loads as fast as Spider-Man Miles Morales then please do share it.

Is there even a first party title on Xbox to make the comparison?

Again I say even if there was and it took 4 secs to load instead of 2 nobody outside this era bubble would care. Differences like that are so minor that it really does not matter.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,130
Chicago
Lol... and that's the reason for this thread... they are NOT supposed to be evenly matched. All things considered (by some at least).
What the hell did people want? Series X to be 100% native 4K, 60 FPS with RT? PS5 to be struggling to hit 1440p, 60 FPS? If you're actively rooting for one version of a game to be technically superior when the performance results are still objectively great on both platforms, you're showing your platform bias. Just be happy the game looks and plays well on both platforms.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
What people don't realise is that even if we all admit an 18% overall performance benefit of Series X (which even this is debatable), such a performance gap is still so tiny in real world results than can be completely overturned by better development tools. Once we all understand this, we'll stop fighting over which console is superior and focus on games.

I dont think the performance gap is ever going to actually be 18%, but I dont get why you guys keep calling it tiny. 18% pure framerate difference is the difference between 30 and 24 fps.

That's huge! PS5 luckily has a lot of other advantages to make up for it, so the real world difference will probably remain either small (if the numbers bear out) or nonexistent (as it is right now) but 20 goddamn percent of power is nothing to sneeze at.
 

mullah88

Member
Oct 28, 2017
951
Lukas with the hit and miss...and the misinformation never fails. Comparisons are great and all but can the game stop crashing every other match and I hope the activity cards actually get fixed so they work as intended and not the failed to connect message it keeps showing
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
But I have nothing to compare it to. There is no Miles Morales for Xbox or PC, which is why the sites doing comparisons are testing multiplatform games. How do you compare apples with oranges?
First party software will most likely show the real difference. State of Decay 2 is optimised, open world and exclusive to the MS platform - how long does it take to load from the main menu?
Is there even a first party title on Xbox to make the comparison?
State of Decay 2 is the only one I can think of atm.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
First party software will most likely show the real difference. State of Decay 2 is optimised, open world and exclusive to the MS platform - how long does it take to load from the main menu?

State of Decay 2 is the only one I can think of atm.

sod2 came out 3 years ago and has never been well optimized. Xbox has no first party game open world games with equivalent polish in any way, let alone in loading times, to games like spiderman and ghosts of tsushima.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,219
I'm really excited to see what the Series X is capable of when the devs get the hang of the dev tools. Impressive how well it's performing since it apparently came in very hot.
 

DjRalford

Member
Dec 14, 2017
1,529
First party software will most likely show the real difference. State of Decay 2 is optimised, open world and exclusive to the MS platform - how long does it take to load from the main menu?

State of Decay 2 is the only one I can think of atm.

SOD2 takes 27secs to load to menu, and another 9 to get in game to a save point.

But it's quite old and not built withXSX architecture in mind
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
sod2 came out 3 years ago and has never been well optimized. Xbox has no first party game open world games with equivalent polish in any way, let alone in loading times, to games like spiderman and ghosts of tsushima.
SOD2 takes 27secs to load to menu, and another 9 to get in game to a save point.

But it's quite old and not built withXSX architecture in mind

Alright, maybe SoD2 LTs aren't a good comparison.

I have experienced some great load times on my Series X with BC software. I haven't particular tried anything optimised for the system.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
I dont think the performance gap is ever going to actually be 18%, but I dont get why you guys keep calling it tiny. 18% pure framerate difference is the difference between 30 and 24 fps.

That's huge! PS5 luckily has a lot of other advantages to make up for it, so the real world difference will probably remain either small (if the numbers bear out) or nonexistent (as it is right now) but 20 goddamn percent of power is nothing to sneeze at.
There is an 18% difference in TFLOP numbers but that's only one metric of one component (the GPU) and it's not enough to guarantee a palpable difference in overall performance, especially if we take into account that in some areas (overall GPU clocks and I/O access speed) the PS5 appears to be superior. I mean the difference between the PS4 and Xbox One was vastly bigger but the overall results were relatively similar. In any case, an 18% difference in FLOPS doesn't translate into an 18% difference in frame rate and the CPU (where the difference between the two is tiny) probably plays a bigger role.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
First party software will most likely show the real difference. State of Decay 2 is optimised, open world and exclusive to the MS platform - how long does it take to load from the main menu?

I have no idea. You have to understand though: No one, literally no one is doing the sort of comparison you are attempting. You can't compare two entirely different games and reach any sort of credible conclusion.
 

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,436
USA
There were immediate, quite glaring differences at launch between PS4 and XBO multiplatform games that more or less persisted throughout the generation. Of course, the power differential was much wider. This bodes extremely well for PS5, tbh. Play where you like.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
And the high framerate mode is not 1080p but 4k reconstruted.
That dude is just something else. Bt he's right about one thing though. PC benchmarks are allover the place.

PC running DMC5 at 1080p and NO RT.
devil-may-cry-5-1920-1080.png


And at 4k
devil-may-cry-5-3840-2160.png


The interesting thing here is, the 5700xt at 4K is only managing 50fps vs the PS5/XSX at ~90-100fps.

The super interesting thing is that at 4K, the PS5/XSX is outperforming a 2080Ti !!!!

That should tell you how biased that poster is lol.

What the hell did people want? Series X to be 100% native 4K, 60 FPS with RT? PS5 to be struggling to hit 1440p, 60 FPS? If you're actively rooting for one version of a game to be technically superior when the performance results are still objectively great on both platforms, you're showing your platform bias. Just be happy the game looks and plays well on both platforms.
Apparently... well, I won't go as far as ay a 100%diference though lol. But yeah, people expected some sort of platform defining difference on the performance side of things. Kinda akin to what we saw on the PS4 v XB1 or XB1X vs the PS4pro.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,137
I have no idea. You have to understand though: No one, literally no one is doing the sort of comparison you are attempting. You can't compare two entirely different games and reach any sort of credible conclusion.

They will most likely compare games of the same type to see where the adavantges are on each system vs each other .
For eg Forza and GT if they want to do that sort of comparison .