• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

TheOne

Alt Account
Banned
May 25, 2019
947
ImportantAromaticDuiker-size_restricted.gif

So much is going on in this gif lol

The man talking
The man sitting next to him appearing to broil some darkness
The man behind thinking "oh really?"
The man putting his Rhum flask in his pocket (I like to think of it as a flask)
The woman doing the sign language for the deaf
The other woman looking are her like she's wondering what's up with her
The woman effortlessly clapping
The dude not giving a fuck and looking for the latest news on his phone
The scarf person appearing as alive as a rock
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
What can they really do about Ireland except play chicken on who builds the wall. That's just the sort of pathetic Boris play, we didn't want a border but EU put it up or some shit like that. Who's responsibility would that be anyway? Would they both have their own border sections so two borders in a way?

Don't know why I bother, it's so unthinkable and still ultimately that thing that can't be solved yet they keep talking about no deal without a word about it beyond the backstop. It's like pre referendum all over again, umm anybody worried about that GFA thing, anyone, nobody mentioned it, good good.
 

Fritz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,719
On a sidenote: I love how Farage stood up in the EU parliament this week and accused Ursula von der Leyen - a christian conservative politician and late German defense minister embracing the Nato - of bringing communism to Europe. That was so wtf.
 
Last edited:

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
Actually Italy is doing the right thing and looking out for themselves. The current setup of the Euro system does no favorite to Italy and Greece. Frankly Greece is stupid to stay inside Euro.
Greece would be a third world country without the EU. Both of these countries are totally responsible for the mess they are in and nobody else.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,108
London
On a sidenote: I love how Farage stood up in the EU parliament this week and accused Ursula von der Leyen - a christian conservative politician and late German defense minister embracing the Nato - of bringing communism to Europe. That was so wtf.
The thing to remember about Farage is that everything he says is for the benefit of his domestic base of radicalised fuckwit gammons. His social media team will have cut that to a 30 second clip of good old Nigel giving the evil totalitarian Soviet-like EU what for and shared all over twitter and FB etc, even though it's total bullshit. His ignorant fans will love it.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,905
Brexit still feels like a flashmob that went wrong. But I think that both Trump and the Brexit have an equal share in the return of the support for the EU.
 

ConanEd

Alt account
Banned
Dec 27, 2018
1,033
Greece would be a third world country without the EU. Both of these countries are totally responsible for the mess they are in and nobody else.

The so called "first world" "third world" terms don't have any meaning in 21st century.

And Greece is already there no matter what your definition of "third world" is.

How they got there was not my point. I was talking about what Greece need to do to get out of it. At least Italy is powerful enough to tell EU fiscal policy to fuck off.
 

Trafalgar Law

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,683
Nobody in the EU benefited or benefits from Brexit. It makes both the EU and the UK weaker, and that's why I'm the opinion that there will be a lot of pressure to keep extending the deadline as long as the UK keeps asking for it just to keep status quo.
It's just that rest of the EU member-states understands the importance of the Single Market to their economies and to protect they actually let the EU act as a unified entity in the negotiations. Not to mention the importance of the notion of protecting the standing of a member-state (Ireland) versus the one that is leaving.
I mean in the sense that breaking away from europe has been shown to be a pretty bad idea
 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
I have watched plenty of his talks and interview. His book is probably too depressive.

That's... likely indeed, but someone who still comes out as a fervent pro-european after all of that really can't be doubted anymore


It's a long story.
Basically, for political reasons, the Troika which was mostly led by Eurogroup which itself was motsly led By Schauble was just firm on using Greece as an example to keep others southern countries in line, no matter what reasonable plan Greece would put forward or any argument they would try to make, anything would be followed with nonsense answers like "BLABLABLA WE DIDN'T HEAR YOU", "LET'S JUST STICK TO THE CURRENT PLAN ("that we know isn't working")
Both IMF (through its president Christine Lagarde) and ECB (through Benoit Coeure its vice president) were rather agreeing with the various options put forward by Varoufakis but, facing incredible pressure, were forced to follow what was set by Eurogroup as they weren't able to take an opposing political stance (IMF has communicated multiple times afterwards to say how austerity in crisis time was just a big mistake in the end)... but at the same time Schauble was a big advocate of Grexit (still to make an example out of the country) but wasn't able to go all the way because that wasn't Merkel's intent (coincidentally, the Ukrainian crisis was happening at the same time)

Varoufakis had this terrible revealing thought "how do you want us to pay debts our creditors don't even want to recover", Schauble didn't care anymore about the debts, Jeroen Dijsselbloem was just a dumb bully that knew nothing about economy, ECB kept saying they couldn't take a political stance despite doing so multiple times beforehand, IMF was powerless as well, France was made of your typical nice people in private that either bowed to Deustchland or were powerless (Sapin, as he said knew nothing about economy as well, Varoufakis did have some nice words about Macron but he couldn't do anything) even in Greece there were litterally greek Troika's spies openly going around sabotaging any attempt of coming up with a new reasonable plan that would stop the humanitarian disaster that was still going on.

The European Commission (Moscovici) were just some useless buffoon that agreed with plans they discussed with Varoufakis in private but bowed afterwards and were agreeing to the opposite they said in public, Varoufakis described that as the "death of a certain idea of Europe" (where the comission is basically useless)

The book is overall an endless fall where you see all the terrible politics and bureaucracy that are wrong in the way Europe currently works, how they did everything possible to undermine anything attempted by Greece, how they tried to divide the Syriza government and how Europe, in the end, sacrificed a whole country, millions of people lives in some terrible situation that satisified no one in the end.

The above summary only focused on the Europe inner workings, there were some fascinating things about Greece (including lots of positive) and hundreds of tidbits that make it an incredible read.


Mind it's only the words of one guy in his book, but considering his past works and what we kinda already know about every people he mentionned there's... nothing so surprising, it's just appaling to see it happening before your very eyes page after page while reading.
 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
Also people are still quoting that charlatan varoufakis? The guy who crashed his country into capital controls to sell more books?

It's alright to doubt him, but how does that make sense for him to resign after the greek referendum to refuse the EU plan (which he actively made campain against) and far left wing political party Syriza to sign the deal after he left?

No to mention that if he wanted money he'd be better off working at his previous jobs, or his wife probably already make enough for both of them in the first place, or maybe he wants to buy a yacht or something?
 

Copper

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
666


*Isle of men is not in the EU.

Also people are still quoting that charlatan varoufakis? The guy who crashed his country into capital controls to sell more books?


The dude left an extremely profitable job and came back to a country on the brink of disaster when called.

I'm pro-EU as it come but the Greece situation was a dumpster fire of garbage from the EU.
 

Lishi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,284
It's alright to doubt him, but how does that make sense for him to resign after the greek referendum to refuse the EU plan (which he actively made campain against) and far left wing political party Syriza to sign the deal after he left?

No to mention that if he wanted money he'd be better off working at his previous jobs, or his wife probably already make enough for both of them in the first place, or maybe he wants to buy a yacht or something?

There is no scenario where Greece could have maintained their standard of living.

If Greece just defaulted on their loan and left EU it would be another level of chaos.

No one would know witch option would have been worse. People who think otherwise are blinded by their belief and political opinions.
 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
There is no scenario where Greece could have maintained their standard of living.

If Greece just defaulted on their loan and left EU it would be another level of chaos.

No one would know witch option would have been worse. People who think otherwise are blinded by their belief and political opinions.

That's a strawman because it's never what it was about (these two options), the blinded by your belief can easily go both ways.

Explaining in details would be a lengthy process, if you're willing to read I could spare the time to summarize this week-end.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,271
It's alright to doubt him, but how does that make sense for him to resign after the greek referendum to refuse the EU plan (which he actively made campain against) and far left wing political party Syriza to sign the deal after he left?
He tried to apply his game theory to international politics by threatening to default (which would've quite literally turned greece into a third world country), the EU called his bluff and in the end his country got a worse deal than what was on the table because he thought he could play brinkmanship. So yes, he and tsipras are absolute frauds.

Also lol:

 

Fisico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,106
Paris
He tried to apply his game theory to international politics by threatening to default (which would've quite literally turned greece into a third world country), the EU called his bluff and in the end his country got a worse deal than what was on the table because he thought he could play brinkmanship. So yes, he and tsipras are absolute frauds.

Story is written by the winners I guess.

So we're lumping Tsipras and Varoufakis together despite the fact they very obviously parted ways?

It's hard to know where to begin really, if we only want to alter the facts and/or oversimplify for the sake of sticking to a few lines post we can do that.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,760
While I'm certainly willing to entertain the idea that Greece is responsible for everything and got what it deserved, the implication of Lagarde and Moscovici is enough for me to accept that the blame may lay closer to the EU.
I mean if you have any idea how these 2 pieces of utter crap are, you know.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
I thought the problem for Greece was all the other countries going through austerity having to be super tough with them to justify the policy in their own countries, it seems a little bit off blaming the EU even if they should never have been in the Euro. Sometimes a situation is just fucked on multiple levels and placing blame isn't very useful.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,760
I thought the problem for Greece was all the other countries going through austerity having to be super tough with them to justify the policy in their own countries, it seems a little bit off blaming the EU even if they should never have been in the Euro.
I would agree with you but the double whammy of 2 crappy French politician leading the talks can certainly lead to such an outcome.
I've seen worse from better people.
We do not strive for competency in the way we train and reward our politicians.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
Holy shit watching someone desperately try to defend a Leave vote with the flimsiest justification in the world is both hilarious and infuriating.

Totes not racist tho.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I'm not super familiar with Greece but I think Fisico's portrayal is more I line with what I know.

The last four years of the Syriza government have been both tumultuous and saddening. Elected to oppose the policies of the Troika (the ECB, IMF, and the EU) in imposing vicious austerity measures on Greeks in return for 'bailing out' its banks, foreign banks and government debt, Syriza at first resisted the Troika. Under Tsipras and Varoufakis, it searched for a deal with the Euro leaders that would not impose the austerity. When such a deal was rejected by the Troika and the Euro leaders led by Germany and the Netherlands, Tsipras called a referendum on the Troika 'memorandum': should Greeks accept the austerity or reject it? Despite a massive propaganda campaign by the pro-business media in Greece and internationally and lack lustre campaigning by Syriza, Greeks voted 60-40 to reject the Troika. Little more than one day later, the government ignored the vote and capitulated.

For the next four years, the Syriza government has duly attempted to implement every single demand of the Troika. Pensions have been slashed, public sector employees have been sacked and wage freezes imposed, state assets have been sold off, taxes have been raised sharply. Varoufakis resigned after the capitulation and toured Europe; and the left faction in Syriza split away to run its own electoral parties – to no avail. The Syriza government ploughed on in the hope and expectation that if it met the austerity measures imposed by the Troika, it would eventually be able to resume economic growth, gain some 'fiscal space' and 'return to the market' for government borrowing.

Some additional sources that corroborate each event in the summary:

Syriza wins on back of anti-austerity

Tsirpas announces referendum on Troika demands

"No" to austerity wins (60-40), Tsirpas capitulates to EU demands a few days later

Varoufakis "resigns" (The Guardian makes it sound like he was pressured out actually)

Syriza splits over the reneging by Tsirpas

Post-Mortem:
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
I would agree with you but the double whammy of 2 crappy French politician leading the talks can certainly lead to such an outcome.
I've seen worse from better people.
We do not strive for competency in the way we train and reward our politicians.

Don't worry i don't rate Lagarde highly either, it's just that nobody wanted to put their cash in and help out Greece, just the opposite if anything, they wanted to teach them a lesson and some seemed to get off on it. I remember the UK government and conservatives pretending to care about it but not having any money to give, just warm words.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,760
Don't worry i don't rate Lagarde highly either, it's just that nobody wanted to put their cash in and help out Greece, just the opposite if anything, they wanted to teach them a lesson and some seemed to get off on it. I remember the UK government and conservatives pretending to care about it but not having any money to give, just warm words.
Funny that now the shoe is on the other foot...
I don't see Greece caring all that much in trying to give better conditions to the UK...
Member states were pretty shameless at the time.
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
Brexit will be postponed many times as is necessary. No deal would be more or less disastrous for many EU countries. No single country can end the negotiations. There will be countries that are willing to drag this out until the end of days, since local economies depend on trade with Britain.
Disastrous? Let's see how this blackmailing will work in October.

The negotiations are over. Either you accept the result of these negotiations or you cancel Brexit by revoking Article 50.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
Here's the video with response from European Commision



Embarrassing they are even wasting time responding to this shit.

It was obvious it was a lie as soon as he said national newspaper. Some cunt over at the Daily Mail probably made shit up and Boris is all too versed in making up stupid shit about the EU that he thought it was an easy win.

Cunt.
 

Grain Silo

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,504
I don't think Brexit is going to happen. Almost no one in parliament wants no deal and they will do everything they can to avoid it, PM be damned, and there is no better deal to leave the EU that the PM can get. They can delay all they want but a general election and/or a referendum will have to happen eventually.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,812
I don't think Brexit is going to happen. Almost no one in parliament wants no deal and they will do everything they can to avoid it, PM be damned, and there is no better deal to leave the EU that the PM can get. They can delay all they want but a general election and/or a referendum will have to happen eventually.
No deal is the default option if nothing else is done.
I am not sure Parliament can or wants to force the PM to withdraw from Article 50, as such unless any deal with the EU is signed and ratified (exceedingly unlikely), no deal will happen no matter what. No deal cannot be averted if all the Parliament can do is agree on what they don't want. You need to actively choose a path forward.