Yes, and it was when it happened. And btw, I was a hater too when that happened. I just didn't yell it from the rooftops.
Nor do I feel like arguing about it now.
Yes, and it was when it happened. And btw, I was a hater too when that happened. I just didn't yell it from the rooftops.
And what would you propose should have happened to him? Serious question if he goes to jail he loses money and his family most likely
Staying our he made money but started helping others around the globe and yesterday he lost his life and his daughters so that's a wash on the losing his family.
And nowhere did I say it wasn't. Unfortunate is a negative word and association. Nowhere was it meant to imply it wasn't.I have no skin in this game as I am not a Kobe fan or basketball fan in general.
I am, however, a rape survivor and uh...
No. No to all of this. It's been 25+ years since my rape and it still fucks me up every day.
'Unfortunate'
Yeah no, that shit is life altering.
How is this thread seeking out his fans? I mean sure he has fans on here but this isn't a basketball forum nor a Kobe forum
Not at all I'm simply comparing scenarios and asking your thoughts which you've left out completely for some reason
This is what i thought as well, but in practice its a lot more complicated. someone brought up vick and hell even tyson and people will never forgive them,and or would celebrate their deaths probably as well. so i always wonder if people really dont believe in that ideal at all.It's a tough question for sure but i was brought up in a system (I recognize this might be different in the US) that teached us if a person works for his/her rehabilitation society should give said person a second chance even if you kill someone (Unless you're a threat to society of course).
Whether or not Kobe intended to rape doesn't change that he did, and admitted as much. Manslaughter is still killing someone.
not sure if this had to do with the timing, but there was a lot of confusion on who was even involved. Early reports from from ABC suggested it was 5 people that died including Kobe and all his daughters..
When victims of sexual assault...millions upon millions, world over...see the world reacting to the death of a straight rapist by utterly glorifying him and holding him up as an absolute paragon, how do you think that feels to them? That people are talking about making the NBA logo the silhouette of a person who, despite raping another person, became a beloved near-billionaire icon world over?The man died in a horrific accident with his daughter, leaving behind his grieving wife and three other daughters.
What exactly is being achieved by saying "yeah but he was a rapist" within hours of his death?
There's most definitely a discussion to be had about sweeping these things under the rug, but have some fucking human decency at least.
I don't know, I wasn't there. I'm just asking what do we do when someone is accused of rape, and our legal system doesn't punish them the way you think they should be punished?
Allow me to in fact elbaorate
This is no different than the reasoning behind Brock Turner.... Don't ruin a man's life just because he raped someone.
Everything here is centered around him and what would happen to him, not a single thought is given to his victim.
He should have been tried and convicted and sentenced in 2003.
But it's also not murder.
So perhaps there should be a different word for it.
I think a person who accidentally kills someone in a negligent car accident can be redeemed while a person who tortures and murders someone for fun can't.
Well, part of that would be raising awareness, which is what some journalists are doing and they are being attacked for it.I don't know, I wasn't there. I'm just asking what do we do when someone is accused of rape, and our legal system doesn't punish them the way you think they should be punished?
How is this thread seeking out his fans? I mean sure he has fans on here but this isn't a basketball forum nor a Kobe forum
This thread/topic sorta speaks to a problem I have with online discourse in general, not just ERA. There's a lot of taking the moral high ground in bad faith as a means to troll, condescend, and/or score an easy 'win'. Anyone dare call you out or disagree on any level, and they're immediately accused of supporting whatever the fucked up thing is. It's shitty and prevents things from being discussed with the nuance/complexity they often deserve.
Like I don't give a fuck about Justin Beiber and never bring him up or think about him. But if he died suddenly tommorow and I seek out his fans while they're in shock trying to process what happened, and start calling him a racist POS, even if I'm not wrong, I know full well what I'm doing and how shitty it is.
It's about what Kobe Bryant admitted to doing. Can we please stop using the "allegations" wording when we have his own words admitting to it?Official Staff Communication
You can use the obituary thread to express sentiments of mourning (this would be the actual "time and place"). This thread is about the harassment received by supporters of Bryant's victim concerning her allegations of sexual assault. Therefore, it is not the "time and place" to shut down discussion over this matter.
Any posts doing that going forward will be treated as thread-whining and moderated strictly.
He learned from it and moved on to be a better person and husband. Look at the contributions he has done after that incident. I believe it should be changed as well and it is fitting that he was a Laker just like Jerry West.
And he wasn't, which is a failing on multiple levels.
At what point does one then get redemption and at what point is it seen as acceptable to use the destruction of a (seemingly very happy) family as a soapbox to suddenly bring it back up?
Yes, and that is horrible. It's also horrible that there is a victim of rape who did not get justice and has been grieving over that for years. It's not like these things cancel each other out, they each happened and they can each be talked about.The man died in a horrific accident with his daughter, leaving behind his grieving wife and three other daughters.
Well, part of that would be raising awareness, which is what some journalists are doing and they are being attacked for it.
Does it? I gotta look again. I stopped looking at it because people kept throwing out the fuck yous to people bringing it up.Yeah, that topic has probably the most bans I've seen in any single topic on this forum yet.
Official Staff CommunicationYou can use the obituary thread to express sentiments of mourning (this would be the actual "time and place"). This thread is about the harassment received by supporters of Bryant's victim concerning her allegations of sexual assault. Therefore, it is not the "time and place" to shut down discussion over this matter.
Any posts doing that going forward will be treated as thread-whining and moderated strictly.
It's a tough question for sure but i was brought up in a system (I recognize this might be different in the US) that teached us if a person works for his/her rehabilitation society should give said person a second chance even if you kill someone (Unless you're a threat to society of course).
Because "having decency" is exactly how this stuff is swept under the rug. You're gonna write your obit and leave out things "for decency", you start the work of obliterating the full accounting of his life from the public record.The man died in a horrific accident with his daughter, leaving behind his grieving wife and three other daughters.
What exactly is being achieved by saying "yeah but he was a rapist" within hours of his death?
There's most definitely a discussion to be had about sweeping these things under the rug, but have some fucking human decency at least.
isn't Tyson mostly beloved now? Like I know very few people who know of his past and most that do shrug it off as no big deal.This is what i thought as well, but in practice its a lot more complicated. someone brought up vick and hell even tyson and people will never forgive them,and or would celebrate their deaths probably as well. so i always wonder if people really dont believe in that ideal at all.
That's the way it should be everywhere pretty much in my opinion. I don't think murderers should be allowed that same chance, but everyone else should be afforded the opportunity to better themselves and society so long as they are genuine in their remorse and their efforts.It's a tough question for sure but i was brought up in a system (I recognize this might be different in the US) that teached us if a person works for his/her rehabilitation society should give said person a second chance even if you kill someone (Unless you're a threat to society of course).
isn't Tyson mostly beloved now? Like I know very few people who know of his past and most that do shrug it off as no big deal.
So you believe the law and the courts are the ultimate arbiters of truth, that the label they give if beyond reproach? Respectfully, I have a bridge you may be interested in buying, we can also say Casey Anthony is not a murderer and Michael Jackson did not molest children if what a court said was the ultimate authority.Calling Kobe a "rapist" is not raising awareness. He was never convicted of rape in a court of law.
This. America wants it's heroes to be perfect. It is OK to recognize, and remember, that someone's hero may have done something horrible.
To deny that, in this case, is to deny the very legitimate trauma of sex assault victims. Anyone who does so cannot legitimately claim to be an ally.
It's about what Kobe Bryant admitted to doing. Can we please stop using the "allegations" wording when we have his own words admitting to it?
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about the harassment received by supporters of Bryant's victim concerning her allegations of sexual assault.
Why not, people gather to the center to grief, like how people gather to the thread, so answer the question, would you go to the Staple center yesterday and bring up the rape?do you think this is an accurate analogy to what's happening right now though?
Would you, you did answer the question.would you do this thing
no i aint playing no damn hypothetical with you
ole "let me play devil's advocate" ass
Many people don't follow the Lakers closely or have recall of stories from nearly two decades ago. Most people just know him as a famous person.I'm fine with there being two separate threads, one being the obituary thread and one being a thread regarding his rape accusation.
The thing is for anyone who followed the Lakers, the NBA, or Kobe's career we all know about the rape accusation and everything surrounding it. Going into a thread where people are mourning after a tragic accident that killed 9 people is in poor taste. For the people who followed his career and his life seen him take a path to redemption (at least in his eyes) and genuinely be better.
No one has forgot about the victim and no one is excusing what happened in the past. I just think taking a victory lap over people mourning is pathetic.
I know but the person I was responding to listed him as part of a group of people that nobody will forgive which was strange cause he seems to pretty clearly have been forgiven by the public after he got out
Does it? I gotta look again. I stopped looking at it because people kept throwing out the fuck yous to people bringing it up.
Most rapists aren't even succesfully prosecuted. Expecting a prosecution before the label sticks is counterproductive and nedlessly dismissive of what victims go through, let alone the targets of harassment stemming from this pointless discussion-murdering armchair "WELL AKCTHUALLY" lawyeringCalling Kobe a "rapist" is not raising awareness. He was never convicted of rape in a court of law.
I've read victims thoughts who were not comfortable with the case being brought up the day of due to innocents also being involved and my friend and mother who were both victims of rape also thought it was wrong.Would y'all feel any differently if you knew the people who's comments came across abrasively were rape victims themselves?
I've read victims thoughts who were not comfortable with the case being brought up the day of due to innocents also being involved and my friend and mother who were both victims of rape also thought it was wrong.