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WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,742
Canada
https://www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/ev8q3e/we-asked-vegans-why-so-many-people-hate-on-vegans

"I've seen way too many Holocaust and slavery comparisons."

A lot of Toronto vegans are pretty angry at me for a piece I wrote on the controversy over Vegandale—a group of vegan businesses that have cropped up in Parkdale.

I wanted to explore that sentiment in a follow-up story, so I posted in a Facebook group for local vegans, and was almost immediately bashed for my article, and accused of being an anti-vegan sensationalist and a "garbage writer."

...

Luckily, a bunch of people were still down to talk to me. So I asked them why they think vegans get hated on so frequently and whether or not the Vegandale backlash was justified.

Mathusha, 26, Markham

Do you feel people think it's "OK" to hate on vegans publicly?
Veganism already gets a bad rep because of how obnoxious some vegans are and their 'morally superior' attitudes. I've come across a ton of white supremacist-type racists within the vegan space and many who don't really actually extend their veganism to *all* living beings, which includes other humans. So yes, I think some of the *growing* backlash might be due to a 'disdain' for mainstream veganism, but, generally, I feel that the backlash is more largely due to gentrification.

Alec Bosse, 42, Toronto

Is it considered socially acceptable to hate on vegans?
I do see that it is considered at this time socially acceptable to dismiss and make light of the ethical movement that is veganism. I see it happen regularly. It's easy to pass judgment when individuals are looking at veganism as a dietary choice and not recognizing it as a social justice movement. These aren't personal choices when there's a victim. People didn't like it when they were told that women were not treated equal. People didn't like it when there was more awareness around slavery. People didn't like it when there was more awareness around homophobia. If we applied the same logic and excuses that are used against veganism against those movements today think about how out of place it would be.

Darren Chang, 28, Toronto

Is it true that people are hard on vegans?
Darren: Yes, I do feel it's true that people are hard on vegans and that it has been made socially acceptable to hate on vegans. However, I think it's important to not conflate all the "hate" for vegans as the same.

There are many who simply hate vegans when they feel that veganism challenges their worldviews and habits on the basis of ethics and morality, and they try to shutdown veganism out of defensiveness, instead of opening their hearts and minds to the possibility of living compassionately and nonviolently with other animals. Many intersectional vegan ecofeminists have also pointed out that the disdain for veganism's empathy for other animals also has deep roots in misogyny, white supremacy, ableism, etc., because to feel love and care for other animals who are considered less capable and intelligent than humans through living veg lifestyles common in many non-white, non-western cultures, is considered a form of weakness and inferiority.

What's the other kind of "hate"?
I wouldn't consider it to be hate, but rather rightful critique of the mainstream capitalist vegan movement that is dominated by upper middle class, mostly white people, who have shown very little understanding or concern about issues related to food justice, poverty, systemic racism, etc. White veganism has a tendency to erase the existence of many POC vegans, and vegan organizations that are doing good work addressing social justice issues beyond speciesism or the domination of nonhuman animals, connecting animal-related issues to other forms of oppression as well. Food Empowerment Project, a nonprofit vegan food justice advocacy group based in California, is a great example of a POC-led organization doing this kind of work by supporting migrant farm workers and fighting for accessibility to healthy food in dispossessed and impoverished communities.

Paige, 36, Parkdale

Do you feel people think it's OK to hate on vegans publicly?
It's more socially acceptable than it should be, but there are obviously worse things people could be hating on like race, gender, sexual orientation… although the reasoning (or lack of it) behind hating those groups and vegans is similar. It wouldn't surprise me if someone who hates vegans also hates some other minority, people like that aren't reasonable.

The full article has better context with regards to what people are pissed off about so read it, but I just quoted the different answers for why vegans think they're disliked since that's the important bit.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,645
Intersectional vegan ecofeminists is my band name.

In all seriousness I've always considered veganism in a dietary sense but not really ethically. I can't digest beef well anymore but I probably couldn't give up pork.
 

GrooveCommand

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,340
"I feel I am being shamed or criticised for not being able to follow a vegan diet," said resident Amy Brown at the forum, which was hosted by the Parkdale Neighbourhood Land Trust at a community garden. "I have no problem with veganism. I have a problem with being insulted by the signs on the businesses and having them imply that I am lesser than."

As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!
 

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,253
As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!

And you are why people hate vegans.
 

Intraxidance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
952
Veganism already gets a bad rep because of how obnoxious some vegans are and their 'morally superior' attitudes.

As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!

Well a great example of that quote from Mathusa didn't take long to show up.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,041
There are White-Supremacist Vegans!?

As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!

Wow, way to play completely into the stereotype.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,154
As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!
Yeah, she sounds like such an asshole

Whoo boy, what an asshole

Holey moley

Total asshole

Can't get over how much of an asshole she's being

Can you believe her

That asshole
 

Deleted member 9479

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,953

I'll be honest, I don't think anyone should bother to elaborate, because the criticism is going to be one you are quite comfortable with. You clearly believe you are a morally superior being and have no problem being shitty to other people about.

Edit. Shit, I may have elaborated more than I intended. Lol.
 

ry-dog

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,180
The holocaust comparisons come from actual holocaust survivors
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2h8df0/i_am_an_80yearold_holocaust_survivor_who/

No one is comparing the severity, just there are some parallels to be drawn between the practices and the way people emotionally detach themselves from it all. The meat industry is fucking horrific, wasteful and destroying the planet, in centuries time future generations aren't going to be looking back at things like this and be like "gee, all that cruelty and pollution was worth it for my Grandparent's taste buds"



The vegan hate is very similar to the SJW hate, a bunch of tone policing because people would rather engage in that, then challenge their own ideas or habits.
 

PinkSpider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,923
Ah, long time Vegan and yeah animals are abused and tortured. The meat eaters I kinda respect know this, accept it and accept thay're part of a flawed system (and it's quite a few, quite a few have become Veggie and Vegan oven recent years).

Why we find meat eaters (often, and we get it quite often) obnoxious; and you outnumber us is volume and thus volume of being dicks about your opinions is you all either feel morally superior or fall back on science you don't really understand. Now lets all skip to the hot house Earth post or the steps to help the earth and stop going hurrr but I love a steak/bacon/one other random meal (and most apparently have to eat that stuff daily or they're not alive). (Their are millions of foods out there, it's weird).
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,192
I wonder if weekly news articles showing the effects of meat production / eating on the earth and its climate will make less people be militantly against veganism or if they will still fall for the "obnoxious vegan" stereotype and post "more bacon for me lmao" memes
 

Occam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
Humans are omnivores by nature. It's not morally superior to consume one type of organism but not another.
Plants have the same right to live as animals.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,115
Bruh, I'm queer and mixed in a country where Nazis parade around with the government's approval. Forgive me if I don't give a damn about the hardships of my burger.
 

Deleted member 16657

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
As a vegan, shit like the above is so frustrating. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, animals are literally abused and tortured so you can feel 'comfortable' about your diet. What she's essentially saying is that she wants to live her life without being guilt-tripped for her own damn choices. If you feel so guilty, then be a fucking vegan you asshole!

Wowie. 4th post in.
 

Deleted member 9479

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,953
I wonder if weekly news articles showing the effects of meat production / eating on the earth and its climate will make less people be militantly against veganism or if they will still fall for the "obnoxious vegan" stereotype and post "more bacon for me lmao" memes

Wow. Almost no one is militantly against vegans or veganism.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Ah, long time Vegan and yeah animals are abused and tortured. The meat eaters I kinda respect know this, accept it and accept thay're part of a flawed system (and it's quite a few, quite a few have become Veggie and Vegan oven recent years).

Why we find meat eaters (often, and we get it quite often) obnoxious; and you outnumber us is volume and thus volume of being dicks about your opinions is you all either feel morally superior or fall back on science you don't really understand. Now lets all skip to the hot house Earth post or the steps to help the earth and stop going hurrr but I love a steak/bacon/one other random meal (and most apparently have to eat that stuff daily or they're not alive). (Their are millions of foods out there, it's weird).

"meat-eaters"?
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,865
Edmonton
I dunno, I'm not vegan but the hate for vegans has always seemed disproportionate to the number of militant, obnoxious vegans out there. Those kind absolutely do exist (I went to university with a bunch) but more recently you seem to get far more snide comments about eating more animals to make up for vegans, or knee-jerk deficiency comments, etc.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,192
Humans are omnivores by nature. It's not morally superior to consume one type of organism but not another.
Plants have the same right to live as animals.
Is this a joke post or do you really think these is no difference

Wow. Almost no one is militantly against vegans or veganism.
Militant in their obnoxiousness. Same as the "aggressive vegan" stereotype but much less complained about and perhaps much more abundant.
 

Deleted member 9145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,680

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
But I always felt Veganism goes completely against the secretly-fragile, hyper-macho "Alpha Male" image those losers try to project.
I don't think they mean they are actual White Power types, more like racist yuppie scumbags that don't give a fuck what new trendy vegetable their social circle is pricing out of normal people's range, as long as they can foodblog about it on Instagram.

I mean, there are even white supremacists who are not white and would've been sent to the gas chambers during Hitler's regime.
Slav Neo Nazis will never not be amusing.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
I've been vegan since 1994. Any hatred vegans face is not because vegans are "obnoxious" or have "morally superior attitudes", and there is no "growing backlash"... I barely ever even mention that I'm vegan (go through my comment history) and yet when it comes up in real life, people will inevitably respond with the most ridiculous shit...

It's really quite simple: People don't like to feel bad about themselves. Or that think that they are supporting terrible things. Or being hypocritical. When humans feel guilty, their natural response is to get defensive, and attack whoever or whatever is making them feel bad about themselves. And they will come up with the most absurd arguments to justify their behavior. It's certainly not to actually change their behavior, that is way too difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Much easier to post shit like this:
more like racist yuppie scumbags that don't give a fuck what new trendy vegetable their social circle is pricing out of normal people's range, as long as they can foodblog about it on Instagram.
"racist yuppie scumbags" "don't give a fuck" "new trendy vegetable" "pricing out of normal people's range" "foodblog" "Instagram"
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,272
I never really cared but the new "actually meat production is the worst thing for the planet ever" motto really started annoying me
 

Nerdyone

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,723
I don't hate vegans but I hate throwing a dinner party and someone springs that shit on me I get pissed. I always have one vegeteriam dish but nothing I'm cooking for a party doesn't have butter in it .
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,780
I wonder if weekly news articles showing the effects of meat production / eating on the earth and its climate will make less people be militantly against veganism or if they will still fall for the "obnoxious vegan" stereotype and post "more bacon for me lmao" memes

You already know the answer.

I love how the article starts with a bunch of vitriolic posts by vegans and then asks, why do people not like vegans? And then this thread exhibits the same behavior immediately. Fantastic.

That being said, I've got no issues with vegans.
 

Deleted member 18407

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,607
I don't think they mean they are actual White Power types, more like racist yuppie scumbags that don't give a fuck what new trendy vegetable their social circle is pricing out of normal people's range, as long as they can foodblog about it on Instagram.


Slav Neo Nazis will never not be amusing.
No, there are real WhitePower types that are vegans. The Nazis in Germany were surprisingly keen on animal rights, so there is precedence there.
 

Marvelous

Member
Nov 3, 2017
347
You are not the first vegan to exist and you certainly haven't found the key to enlightenment by doing so. It doesn't make you magically better than other people. I'm sure there are countless other ways your lifestyle choices take advantage of others, be it animal or human suffering. If you truly believe in the moral righteousness of what you're doing, you shouldn't use it as a way to put yourself above others, but instead convince others that your cause is the right thing. Using it to fuel your own pride is selfish; getting angry about it is toxic.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,192
I never really cared but the new "actually meat production is the worst thing for the planet ever" motto really started annoying me
What is there to be annoyed about? Do you think it's untrue and are tired or hearing about it or does hearing about it knowing you would prefer to ignore annoy you? Also:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-heres-how-america-uses-its-land.59198/

Not sure if it's the "worst thing for the planet ever" but we probably shouldn't downplay its impact for the sake of lesser annoyance.
 

Deleted member 9145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,680
I dunno, I'm not vegan but the hate for vegans has always seemed disproportionate to the number of militant, obnoxious vegans out there. Those kind absolutely do exist (I went to university with a bunch) but more recently you seem to get far more snide comments about eating more animals to make up for vegans, or knee-jerk deficiency comments, etc.

Agree with this as well

And furthermore other people's behavior shouldn't be used to rationalize your choice for animal torture and cruelty. Just cause some dude got mad at someone online for shitting on you for eating meat, doesn't suddenly mean they are wrong. They might be annoying, condescending, and an absolute dick but at the core of what they're saying, they are right.

the food industry is fucked
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Much easier to post shit like this:

"racist yuppie scumbags" "don't give a fuck" "new trendy vegetable" "pricing out of normal people's range" "foodblog" "Instagram"
FFS. I did not say all vegans are like this. The question was how could a vegan be a white supremacist as well.

But sure, feel personally targeted, I obviously just can't stand your moral superiority.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Mostly just because they make going out to eat a huge hassle, and going out for a meal is one of the most common social bonding experiences. So they commonly throw a monkey wrench into otherwise easygoing social events.
 
Mar 3, 2018
4,512
I live in Toronto and this whole Vegandale thing has been embarrassing. There are already corporate businesses that exist in that area and its already gentrified as fuck. People suddenly getting upset over this purely because of its name and branding. Most of these folk dont give a flying fuck when people like Brad Lamb and other conglomerates buy out an entire neighborhood and tear down and build million dollar condos, driving out the surrounding poor locals because they cant afford it anymore. Where were these people whenever there was a much needed community hearing about making more homeless shelters, womens shelters, native support or tons of other atrocities that are happening in this city. Sorry if I sound angry. Its just hilarious how people think Toronto is some haven of morality and ethics and things like vegandale end up being talked about instead of actual problems. We had someone make a fake sign about a homeless shelter being built in a neighborhood here and people literally cried since they were so upset at the idea of a homeless shelter being 15 minutes form their home. Instead of being offended by a fake marketing name such as Vegandale go protest the name Toronto which is a symbol of colonialism and a butchered version of the original Tkaranto since the french colonials doubled down as a fuck you to the natives.

The amount of press this vegandale thing has gotten is depressing. At a time when Doug Ford is literally slashing the budget for a lot of services such as mental health this is all folk are talking about.
 

Deleted member 6173

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,088
Man parkdale has changed. I never saw a vegan restaurant there when I as a kid and grew up in the area.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
I think as a society we should consume less meat and be more ethical with how we produce meat (which will lead to higher prices and thus lower consumption), but it is not morally wrong to kill and eat animals, especially animals we designed for that purpose or animals where humans have displaced their previous primary predator such as deer.

Humans are inherently superior to and thus the shepherds of all other forms of life on this planet. We should have compassion for them but that does not mean we should abstain from or try to remove ourselves from the circle of life that gave us our stewardship in the first place.