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[VIDEO] Behind the scenes - The Shining. Kubrik vs Shelly Duval. Was this guy an asshole? Was she a bad actress?

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,959
Shelly is alright but Kubrick was a notorious asshole
This is pure mythology. No he wasn’t. Most actors speak fondly of him.

Malcolm McDowell loved the man and was saddened that he wasn’t closer to him after they wrapped ACO. Matthew Modine and Vincent D’Onofrio have always spoken highly of him. Tom Cruise is basically brought to tears whenever he talks about him.

I’m sure he was demanding and exacting but he wasn’t an asshole.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,652
I always thought he was overrated even when it comes to visuals. The Shining is the exception. I only like two Kubrick movies (the other being 2001), but The Shining is one of my favorite movies. It's nearly perfect.
Yo what? Barry Lyndon looks better than the vast majority of films that came out since its release. I have no clue how any can shit on Kubrick's visuals when he was a master of the craft that inspired tons of film makers who still can't fully pull off his style.
 
Funny thing is she was nominated for a razzie for her performance and kubrick was too. Funny how perceptions of films change over the years. And how critics can get things dead wrong.
A lot of contemporary critics and fans were expecting a straightforward adaptation of the book, so when it turned it wasn't and did its own thing altogether, it was tough for them to reconcile with what they wound up getting, especially with King being so outspoken on his dislike of the film even back then. Not that it's anything new for Kubrick in particular, since so few of his films had overwhelmingly positive reception on their release, but it's hard to imagine what the world of horror films would have been like had the film not turned out exactly the way that it did, and I can't even imagine how folks who despised it back when it was new would think of its reception these days.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,652
A lot of contemporary critics and fans were expecting a straightforward adaptation of the book, so when it turned it wasn't and did its own thing altogether, it was tough for them to reconcile with what they wound up getting, especially with King being so outspoken on his dislike of the film even back then. Not that it's anything new for Kubrick in particular, since so few of his films had overwhelmingly positive reception on their release, but it's hard to imagine what the world of horror films would have been like had the film not turned out exactly the way that it did, and I can't even imagine how folks who despised it back when it was new would think of its reception these days.
A lot of now famous and lauded films were panned back in the day, even 2001 got a mixed reception because of how out there it was compared to most anything else. Even stuff like John Carpenter's The Thing or the original Blade Runner weren't exactly break out hits with the critics, the opposite actually.
 

kvetcha

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,287
A lot of contemporary critics and fans were expecting a straightforward adaptation of the book, so when it turned it wasn't and did its own thing altogether, it was tough for them to reconcile with what they wound up getting, especially with King being so outspoken on his dislike of the film even back then. Not that it's anything new for Kubrick in particular, since so few of his films had overwhelmingly positive reception on their release, but it's hard to imagine what the world of horror films would have been like had the film not turned out exactly the way that it did, and I can't even imagine how folks who despised it back when it was new would think of its reception these days.
Yeah, I made the mistake of reading the book before watching the movie and I had that reaction. I should really watch it again on its own terms, considering how much I adore the other Kubrick I’ve seen.
 
A lot of now famous and lauded films were panned back in the day, even 2001 got a mixed reception because of how out there it was compared to most anything else. Even stuff like John Carpenter's The Thing or the original Blade Runner weren't exactly break out hits with the critics, the opposite actually.
Yeah, the early 80s especially felt like one of those times where folks just did not know what to expect out of genre pictures and weren't prepared for them to break down a lot of barriers in terms of what could be done with them. I immediately think of the likes of Videodrome and the original Maniac for others that received overdue praise and respect after initial drubbings.
 

Mr Spasiba

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,093
I still laugh thinking about when Rob Ager posed the theory that Kubrick being particularly shitty to Shelly and Scatman was some convoluted performance piece about the treatment of Native Americans or something. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in my entire life.
 
Wasn't it BOTH Jack Nicholson and Kubrick that ganged up on Shelley as massive assholes during the filming?
Nah, Jack didn't much like making the film himself, since the script was being changed constantly (he wouldn't know his lines until they were ready to start shooting for that day) and Kubrick's shooting style was much slower than he had been used to on other films. Danny Lloyd was about the only actor on the set that had a good time, and that's only because Kubrick made a special effort to protect him from harming him emotionally as a result of him being so young and working on a horror film. Heck, Wendy Duvall is carrying a dummy of him when she's carrying him around towards the end of the film since Kubrick didn't want to have him around with so much screaming going on.
 

kvetcha

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,287
Yeah, the early 80s especially felt like one of those times where folks just did not know what to expect out of genre pictures and weren't prepared for them to break down a lot of barriers in terms of what could be done with them. I immediately think of the likes of Videodrome and the original Maniac for others that received overdue praise and respect after initial drubbings.
John Carpenter’s The Thing.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,652
Funnily enough I think his treatment of Malcolm McDowell in a Clockwork Orange was far worse than what happened to the actors in The Shining. That movie has extended scenes of some pretty brutal torture and Kubrick physically beat the shit out of McDowell including almost blinding him. Although McDowell seemed to love working with Kubrick in hindsight so maybe he was into that.
 
Funnily enough I think his treatment of Malcolm McDowell in a Clockwork Orange was far worse than what happened to the actors in The Shining. That movie has extended scenes of some pretty brutal torture and Kubrick physically beat the shit out of McDowell including almost blinding him. Although McDowell seemed to love working with Kubrick in hindsight so maybe he was into that.
The only bad thing he ever said about Kubrick was how disappointed he was that he never kept in touch after shooting the film. Arduous a shoot as it was, McDowell was really damn proud of the work he did with Kubrick, and I know that both Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall have said as much themselves on The Shining.

I won't suggest that Kubrick's behavior towards some of his actors was beyond reproach, but I do think that some actors also know what a director is going for in terms of eliciting the kind of performance that the film needs, and in spite of the misgivings they have with the production otherwise, the actors do place a lot of faith in a director of that caliber to do just that, for better and for worse.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,624
Shelly was amazing in this film, what is this title. Kubrick worked those two extremely hard for The Shining, doing take after take, and eventually using a later take from when both actors were exhausted.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,157
A lot of contemporary critics and fans were expecting a straightforward adaptation of the book, so when it turned it wasn't and did its own thing altogether, it was tough for them to reconcile with what they wound up getting, especially with King being so outspoken on his dislike of the film even back then. Not that it's anything new for Kubrick in particular, since so few of his films had overwhelmingly positive reception on their release, but it's hard to imagine what the world of horror films would have been like had the film not turned out exactly the way that it did, and I can't even imagine how folks who despised it back when it was new would think of its reception these days.
Well said. It is the worst kind of criticism, to me. Critiquing something based on expectation and what it isnt, instead of what it is. Still happens today.

The Thing was another film that was misunderstood at release and something that would have changed John Carpenter's career had it turned out different.
 

captaincunk

Member
Dec 29, 2018
70
How is he being an asshole in this video? This is what filmmaking is. Sometimes people get frustrated on set. Big fucking deal.

As someone who has been on sets, this is so mild it isn’t even worth worrying about.
Agreed, if Shelly was forced to do the movie then sure you can argue that Kubrick was being a prick. Look no further than James Franco & Hitchcock if you want actual examples of assholery at its finest.
 

BlueTsunami

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,686
I feel as though, if there was an actual character arch in this film outside of the descent into madness, it would not have been nearly as lean as it is. I mean, there is not one ounce of fat on this film and it's one of the reasons it is so striking.