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videogamedunkey: Kingdom Hearts 3 (dunkview)

Oct 25, 2017
2,865
Watching this right after watching a 50mins+ video essay of FFXV made me realize that I will never like anything that Nomura had his hands in it.
I played FFXV in 2016, still don't get it, a FF open world that feels so inconsistent it drops the open world half way through, a FF game with one playable character and no turn based combat. Even on its own merits the game is underwhelming (just 2 towns) What's the point? With KH 3 I can see exactly what the point is and how it sets to improve and escalate upon 2.
 
Feb 24, 2018
4,020
It's almost like he, a person who didn't like Kingdom Hearts in the first place, deliberately went in knowing he wouldn't like it and so could shit on the game and make a video with which he knew would be a brave and controversial take.

Yeah, the series isn't flawless of course and has a lot of to explain itself for and it's convoluted as hell story, but I don't understand why someone would go to play a game they didn't enjoy, other than to just shit on it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,042
It's almost like he, a person who didn't like Kingdom Hearts in the first place, deliberately went in knowing he wouldn't like it and so could shit on the game and make a video with which he knew would be a brave and controversial take.

Yeah, the series isn't flawless of course and has a lot of to explain itself for and it's convoluted as hell story, but I don't understand why someone would go to play a game they didn't enjoy, other than to just shit on it.
its literally his job
 
Nov 2, 2017
121
Sweden
KH is a huge franchise and the development cycle was so long that of course people will have high expectations. I can't say for sure but I've played the first two games but I'm skipping this one.

Based on a lot of criticism the sacrifices are too many. Shoehorned Disney setups, little to no comprehensive story elements, repetitive gameplay and poor level design.

If you only look at metacritic and sales the game seem to be doing well. But I think i'd have to trust my gut and the Dunk for this one.
 

Sp1

Member
Feb 19, 2018
347
Watching this right after watching a 50mins+ video essay of FFXV made me realize that I will never like anything that Nomura had his hands in it.
I can only tolerate his PS1 art. I really hate his style and other influences since at least PS2. I would like to try the gameplay, even if it is said to be not that deep, but anytime anything story-related pops up I just can't bear with it.
 
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Feb 24, 2018
4,020
his job is to entertain, and going by the amount of subscribers a lot of people are entertained. If you don't find him funny you can just like, not watch his shit.

I can see that yeah. It's fair play if people enjoy his content, and it may even be entertaining. But I find it pretty bad that someone who doesn't enjoy something would blatantly play it only to shit on it, even if it is his job. Oh well.
 
Jun 17, 2018
572
Lol I expected ...a lot worse tbh

Like hell even Leffen went ham on this game

But this take is sooo Soo wrong

Ignore Leffen. He's so sensationalist, I like and strongly dislike the guy at the same time. Great smash player, good streamer but he's still very childish and a lot of his fans enable that.
 
Oct 10, 2018
108
I just hope all of this criticism is applied to DMC5 as well.

The game simply looks fantastic and super polished but since it's anime as fuck with a nonsense story that puts a prequel in the 3rd game and just decided that the 2nd game takes place before the 4th instead of after, and also has cringe dialogue clearly it will deserve a 1/5....Clearly.
DMC is camp. KH is not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,811
He is 100% right in everything he said.

Nomura should never be let direct or create/produce a game ever again. He should stay designing characters and even then should have someone above him telling him to take out all he edginess, belts and zippers like Takahashi dis with him on xenoblade 2.
I dont think the world ends with you story is that good either, and thats his best.

Also, when is fucking KH going to understand that Mickey Mouse's ears, even in 3d, need to face the front of the camera by Walts own words? Even epic mickey got this right.
 
Feb 24, 2018
4,020
So like what, reviewers should only review games that they know they will like or something?
Nope. But imagine getting someone to review a game when that someone doesn't want to like it or already has some opinion on it before playing it. It isn't a review in good faith.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,450
I don't really care for this guy in the video but he hits the nail on the head really here. I mean damn BotW was nearly 2 years ago, Bloodborne nearly 4, Undertale more than 3 etc there's been a lot of games this gen that have really pushed the envelope so to speak and then this game comes out near the tail end and... yeah. Forced tutorials, dozens and dozens of cutscenes, invisible walls, unwelcoming plot for newcomers (being 3rd or whatever in a series isn't a good enough excuse IMO since I was also new to The Witcher this gen and had a *much* easier time with that game) incredibly limited freedom and choice for the player, easy and really lacking in depth in regards to plot and characters and their motivations. A lot of longtime fans don't like to hear this seemingly but the game feels like a PS2/3 game to me- a beautiful and polished af one at that- with all that above taken into consideration.

The cutscenes, dialogue and plot really are as bad as I feared they'd be as a newcomer so really it falls on the Disney worlds to elevate the game and with how poor they get it just doesn't cut it. A really mixed bag considering how beautiful it is and how fun the game can be at times.
 
Oct 27, 2017
277
I’m never going to play this game so I can’t be too critical of the product. But KH3 seems to be the polar opposite of the things I like in games. The video, however, was funny as hell.
 
Nope. But imagine getting someone to review a game when that someone doesn't want to like it or already has some opinion on it before playing it. It isn't a review in good faith.
Should 'wanting to like it' a requirement? Such a weird way of gatekeeping people from giving his opinions about something. Maybe he tries to like it but the game didn't do enough to persuade him?
 
Feb 24, 2018
4,020
Should 'wanting to like it' a requirement? Such a weird way of gatekeeping people from giving his opinions about something. Maybe he tries to like it but the game didn't do enough to persuade him?
It's not really a big issue really. He can play whatever he pleases, and people are entitled to their opinions. I guess it's more a matter of who people want to take seriously. I know I don't take him seriously. All I know is he went into this game wanting to shit on it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
unwelcoming plot for newcomers (being 3rd or whatever in a series isn't a good enough excuse IMO since I was also new to The Witcher this gen and had a *much* easier time with that game)s.
there were a bunch of games you missed and you don't get the plot

I don't get what the issue is here. And the witcher isn't every video game
 
Oct 27, 2017
527
It's almost like he, a person who didn't like Kingdom Hearts in the first place, deliberately went in knowing he wouldn't like it and so could shit on the game and make a video with which he knew would be a brave and controversial take.

Yeah, the series isn't flawless of course and has a lot of to explain itself for and it's convoluted as hell story, but I don't understand why someone would go to play a game they didn't enjoy, other than to just shit on it.
Just because he knew he wouldn't like it going into it does not invalidate his opinion or make what he's said wrong. Kingdom Hearts 2 is one of the best games I've ever played, yet I still agree with the majority of this video and found Kingdom Hearts 3 extremely disappointing, so much so that I was surprised to see it rated higher than KH2 on metacritic.
 
Feb 24, 2018
4,020
Just because he knew he wouldn't like it going into it does not invalidate his opinion or make what he's said wrong. Kingdom Hearts 2 is one of the best games I've ever played, yet I still agree with the majority of this video and found Kingdom Hearts 3 extremely disappointing, so much so that I was surprised to see it rated higher than KH2 on metacritic.
You're right, can't say I disagree. Some of his points are valid, yeah.

But KH3 is on par with KH2 for me atm.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,450
there were a bunch of games you missed and you don't get the plot

I don't get what the issue is here. And the witcher isn't every video game
Well it's been more than a decade since KH2, and KH3 has become the highest selling in the series already, I don't doubt that the number of people playing this game without having played previous games in the series is quite numerous. Therefore I do believe that how the plot is interpreted by these people is an issue worth discussing, and as far as I'm concerned it's not good.

And yes The Witcher isn't every video game, whatever that was supposed to mean. It was just a video game that I played as my first of its series in its 3rd iteration and managed to convey its plot really well in spite of that through excellent writing and a welcoming and likeable cast of characters.

Basically KH3 is just bad in this regard, and TW3 is good, hence the comparison.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,852
This is just a typical 'reviewer' that bashes a popular, good product to get some views. If someone has problems with KH3 that I can understand. I can even understand if you think the game is ok and not that great. But if you literally can't say anything good.about it and just hate everything then you just aren't objective...
Sure thing "Kingsora". Dude, you are named after the main character, you have his avatar, and 99% of your posts are about KH3. Are you really the person to be telling others they aren't being objective?

Other that his 1/5, which is basically to trigger die hard fans who shit themselves when anyone says anything negative about this franchise, his video is 100% dead on, balls accurate. I don't care if he went into it looking to hate it, he found exactly what what there is to find. It's a mediocre game, in a mediocre franchise, and much like any media first swallowed up by pre-teens, most of the diehards have convinced themselves it's far better than it ever was. I'm actually shocked he was as kind to the game as he was, I was expecting far worse than the truth telling I saw in that video.

Either way, they shouldn't let Nomura touch another installment of this game, or any game, and should go back to the drawing board with KH4 and take another look at why this slam dunk of a series, that should be nearly universally loved by anyone with a beating heart, turned out to be one of the most decisive series in the history of video games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
Well it's been more than a decade since KH2, and KH3 has become the highest selling in the series already, I don't doubt that the number of people playing this game without having played previous games in the series is quite numerous. Therefore I do believe that how the plot is interpreted by these people is an issue worth discussing, and as far as I'm concerned it's not good.

And yes The Witcher isn't every video game, whatever that was supposed to mean. It was just a video game that I played as my first of its series in its 3rd iteration and managed to convey its plot really well in spite of that through excellent writing and a welcoming and likeable cast of characters.

Basically KH3 is just bad in this regard, and TW3 is good, hence the comparison.
KH3 isn't the third game in the series though , you missed a lot of story in that time. I think there are legitimate story issues in kh3 and in the series in general despite my love for it. But I find the idea if you can't immediately know what's going on in a story at any point , it means it failed. No, you missed some story, either do some research or go in blind.
 
Feb 1, 2019
310
Spain
At the end of the day I don't get why people are so pissy about criticism, this is the best outcome for the series.

KH3 sold the best and there's clearly people that love it even with the swarm of criticisms. This just means they will either want to pump the same exact level of quality for the sequels or will want to improve with the feedback given.

It's not like the Breath of the Wild vs Classic Zelda formula debate. Most of the criticisms wouldn't change the series all that much at it's core.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,221
I can see that yeah. It's fair play if people enjoy his content, and it may even be entertaining. But I find it pretty bad that someone who doesn't enjoy something would blatantly play it only to shit on it, even if it is his job. Oh well.
People don't always love their jobs every second of every day. If he has to play a few stinkers in order to produce entertaining content that people love, well that's life (and work). Plenty of poor sods hate their jobs all the time. He's better off than many.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,812
Costa Rica
DMC is camp. KH is not.
"This one doesn't count!" Defense again.
Criticism around DMC5 being too easy?
Criticism around DMC5's gameplay being shallow and boring?
Criticism around DMC5 having too many cutscenes?
Criticism around DMC5 having terrible voice acting?
Criticism around DMC5 being flatout BORING?

Yup, all of KH3 criticism will be applied to DMC5.
Yeah do it. Those are perfectly valid complains that are getting completely overshadowed by the "story is dumb" meme.

So yes. That too. Just as hard.

I want a video on the dumb campy lines they say and the weird chronology werr 3 takes place before 1 and 2 gets moved around, and also about how confused they are about letter capitalisation in the titles that barely touches on the actual issues fans care about like a lack of difficulty or too many mini games. And let's top it off with minimal scores that are just exaggerated from the general consensus despite the games merits
 
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Dec 5, 2017
2,081
Gameplay is good but yeah the rest is absolute sh*t.

Let's hope they stop with KH and make a new franchise or start fresh with KH...and I'm saying this as a life time fan.
 

Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,110
I don't understand the way the video begins, if all of that shit wasn't explained people would be complaining the game doesn't explain it's mechanics. Are there better ways to do them? Yes. But a quick slide doesn't take away from the game lol and from what I'm getting, it's openly comparing it to other games as something that is bad? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but:


Yeah...

The gameplay has tons of options, and yeah unfortunatelly it's difficutly is toned down WAY to much. I don't understand how you can say KH3's gameplay is boring if you EVER enjoyed a KH game, it's close to KH2 for me, and has things I enjoy more. Also, the variety of stuff you can do in KH3 is enormous, and he may say they aren't done well, but for me getting to go on a ship, slide down a mountain, dancing with rapunzel, cooking and having an enjoyable gummi ship added a much welcomed variety and value to my gameplay experience.

Also, it's easy to take out of context scenes and make them look bad, it's also pretty funny that almost 90% of the scenes he picked were expository scenes to make things easier for newcomers that can't be bothered to play the other games, and thats acceptable, but don't criticize the game for doing that shit for you. Now of course, kh's cutscenes quality are debatable, and highly vary in quality throughout the game.

Disney's inclusion quality is valid. But if you're going to focus on the story motives for why the characters are there and the way they handle the story of the movies in those worlds, you also have to acknowledge the outstanding quality of the worlds in themselves, the atention to detail in outstanding, and saying it has no charm is bullshit, when you group together music, world design, visuals, models, animations and side-activities you can do in them.

And wow? I'm at the end of the review? That was pretty bad and this is what some people in this thread called "in depth but casual"?

All of these takes are just so boring and bring nothing new to what people have been saying for years! Keep complaining about the story, people LOVE KH because or in spite of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,078
"This one doesn't count!" Defense again.


Yeah do it. Those are perfectly valid complains that are getting completely overshadowed by the "story is dumb" meme.

So yes. That too. Just as hard.

I want a video on the dumb campy lines they say and the weird chronology werr 3 takes place before 1 and 2 gets moved around, and also about how confused they are about letter capitalisation in the titles that barely touches on the actual issues fans care about like a lack of difficulty or too many mini games
I'm not sure what's your point here. I'm not into DMC like I am with KH but most people that are into DMC never praise the story like KH fans do. Most people accept the story for that series to be garbage, so I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The difference between something like KH and DMC is really in its gameplay. KH is pretty much mindless JRPG combat jank while DMC actually has some of the best hack and slash combat to ever exist similar to Bayonetta.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,812
Costa Rica
I don't understand the way the video begins, if all of that shit wasn't explained people would be complaining the game doesn't explain it's mechanics. Are there better ways to do them? Yes. But a quick slide doesn't take away from the game lol and from what I'm getting, it's openly comparing it to other games as something that is bad? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but:


Yeah...

The gameplay has tons of options, and yeah unfortunatelly it's difficutly is toned down WAY to much. I don't understand how you can say KH3's gameplay is boring if you EVER enjoyed a KH game, it's close to KH2 for me, and has things I enjoy more. Also, the variety of stuff you can do in KH3 is enormous, and he may say they aren't done well, but for me getting to go on a ship, slide down a mountain, dancing with rapunzel, cooking and having an enjoyable gummi ship added a much welcomed variety and value to my gameplay experience.

Also, it's easy to take out of context scenes and make them look bad, it's also pretty funny that almost 90% of the scenes he picked were expository scenes to make things easier for newcomers that can't be bothered to play the other games, and thats acceptable, but don't criticize the game for doing that shit for you. Now of course, kh's cutscenes quality are debatable, and highly vary in quality throughout the game.

Disney's inclusion quality is valid. But if you're going to focus on the story motives for why the characters are there and the way they handle the story of the movies in those worlds, you also have to acknowledge the outstanding quality of the worlds in themselves, the atention to detail in outstanding, and saying it has no charm is bullshit, when you group together music, world design, visuals, models, animations and side-activities you can do in them.

And wow? I'm at the end of the review? That was pretty bad and this is what some people in this thread called "in depth but casual"?

All of these takes are just so boring and bring nothing new to what people have been saying for years! Keep complaining about the story, people LOVE KH because or in spite of it.
Please stop making sense! The circlejerk must continue!
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,812
Costa Rica
I'm not sure what's your point here. I'm not into DMC like I am with KH but most people that are into DMC never praise the story like KH fans do. Most people accept the story for that series to be garbage, so I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The difference between something like KH and DMC is really in its gameplay. KH is pretty much mindless JRPG combat jank while DMC actually has some of the best hack and slash combat to ever exist similar to Bayonetta.
No one does that! No. One. Zero fans will tell you with a straight face that this is a good story

It's a fucking mess of a plot that people have fun with. Like Dragon Ball or DMC too. It ain't that hard to understand.

KH shines in many departments, from its music to levels and specially challenge runs. That's what people want. Yet youtubers just want to tell people that the story is bad.

It's like me making a video on Dragon Ball Super: Broly having a fucking awful story fresh of its success. Fans know. They don't care. The characters are fun and they're here for the fights

For DMC the characters are fun and they're here for the combat. They know the story is fucking trash. They don't care. We must know if Vergil is Nero's father even if it makes zero sense and doest fit with the character at all. Who gives a shit? It's fun!

If there is an actual problem all 5 million people that bought KH3 are talking about is that it repeated KHII's mistake of being waaaaay too easy at launch. That is problem the people buying this game care about that's getting drowned in a sea of shitty memes about the plot
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,812
Costa Rica
This isnt true at all of people on this board consistently defend the story. Theres even an entire thread about it here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ki...because-it-focuses-on-earned-happiness.98496/
The thread clearly says
So if the writing is generic and the main character is practically a fanfic tier self-insert character, why do I fucking love these games? I don’t consider myself a massive Disney fan. I like their movies enough but if Kingdom Hearts’ appeal was entirely based on the fact it features Disney characters I doubt I’d like the series very much.

Where I believe Kingdom Hearts’ succeeds is how it displays emotion with its cast of characters
In summary, Kingdom Hearts should be fanfic tier garbage with how everything is written. But what keeps it from being a stupid Japanese action game with Disney characters is the genuine emotion it creates through its cast of characters.
He knows the plot is fucking dumb but likes the characters and their interactions... Did you even read it?

And I agree with him. KH can be pretty emotional. Though I'd argue is mostly thanks to its fantastic music in the emotional character moments in the middle of the nonsense

People like Goku and Gohan as characters in the middle of the garbage fire of retcons that is the DB canon because of their emotional moments too. Same for Dante and Lady and Snake and Raiden.

It's the same. The "fans claim this is an Oscar worth story" thing is nonexistent beyond what I imagine amounts to some weird tumblr posts
 
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Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,110
This isnt true at all of people on this board consistently defend the story. Theres even an entire thread about it here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ki...because-it-focuses-on-earned-happiness.98496/
I know this doesn't prove anything. But you can also find people that say DMC's story is good. This was a quick google search also.



People like DMC's story because of it's characters, same for KH. We as KH fans are invested in their stories, thats why we like it.
 

SSJDio

Self-requested ban
Banned
Apr 13, 2018
4,559
casuals take the story more seriously than the people in the KH community do lmao. The story in the community is one big meme.
 
Dec 15, 2018
1,246
Yeah not sure where this weird narrative about people standing for the story is coming from, specific characters sure, but the overall story? As a big fan people just enjoy speculating where the insanity goes next. But I also read a thread here where someone said if you like kh you were stunted maturity wise so ehhh
 
Feb 28, 2018
1,181
I don't understand the way the video begins, if all of that shit wasn't explained people would be complaining the game doesn't explain it's mechanics. Are there better ways to do them? Yes. But a quick slide doesn't take away from the game lol and from what I'm getting, it's openly comparing it to other games as something that is bad? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but:

Haven't played a single Kingdom Hearts game, but pretty sure the entire point that Dunkey was making was that there are so many of the tutorial popups he found it was restricting his ability to play the game, not that any tutorial pop-ups are bad.

There's technique to disseminating information to the player, and having a boatload of pop-ups isn't a good one.
 
Oct 27, 2017
675
Sweden
I’m sorry but KH’s voice cast can’t compete with how irritating Dunkey sounds.
What? You must be a defensive Kingdom Hearts fan, because Dunkey is pretty much the opposite of irritating. Fun jokes, great editing, soothing voice, keeps his videos short and so on ... Nothing to be annoyed by!
 

Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,110
Haven't played a single Kingdom Hearts game, but pretty sure the entire point that Dunkey was making was that there are so many of the tutorial popups he found it was restricting his ability to play the game, not that any tutorial pop-ups are bad.

There's technique to disseminating information to the player, and having a boatload of pop-ups isn't a good one.
While that might be true, it's also arguable that KH3 has a butload of different types of gameplay in a single game, thing that I'm sorry, but the GOAT games like TLOU, BOTW, GOW and such don't do.

So it is hard to find a good way to give the different kinds of information related to each type of gameplay in a way that for example, GOW does where the tutorials appear at the beggining of the game where you're playing, and then never appear again, cuz while the gameplay changes, it's not drastically like KH, where in one moment you're doing ground combat and the next you're in a spaceship.