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videogamedunkey: The Hardest Mario Level of All Time

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Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,681
Germany
Going by some of the posts here you would think Dunkey would be on the same level as Boogie Pewdiepie and Jontron.

I mean, I get it: It sucks that he never apologized for using that word. He never took responsibility even tough he should.

On the other hand, contrary to many other Youtubers who get caught doing stuff like that, he seemed to have learned his lesson and didn't doubled down. He never used it again or came even close to use it again.

That's something that should be recognized as well.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
I apologize then my wording on that was bad and wasnt meant to be targeted at you. My overall point is that we recognize when people fuck up and not rush to make excuses for them.

If you want an example of what I mean that is very relevant look at how Jonah hill apologized using the slur.
Commenting that you don't think someone is the devil incarnate is not the same as making excuses for him.

Dunkey should not have used the F word. I don't think a single damn person here thinks he ought to have. I also don't think he has done it again. If it was something he continued to do, then I would stop watching his content, but other than some bad jokes from like 7 years ago when he was a young teenager, and one instance of the F word, he has not done anything to indicate he hates gay people or wants harm to them or thinks they are subhuman, or anything like that. So forgive some of us if we are resistant to the idea of placing him on the same level of those people who do, and disagree with those who on this forum do aggressively do that. I find that very problematic, and that's what I think a lot of people here are trying to address.

This reminds me of how when attempting to talk to my family about a bad thing Trump has done, they always act as if I am suddenly trying to defend whichever flavor of democrat they don't like, when I never brought that up. I just think he is an aggressively bad person, based not only what he consistently says, but consistently does.

Attempting to correct comments gone wild and being inaccurate is not the same as implying the black-and-white opposite of those statements. This is not a hard concept.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,131
Again, mentioning Dunkey's problematic behavior is NOT derailment.

Here's a staff post from a previous Dunkey thread:

 

Mona

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,708
the difficulty comes less from needing skill and more from doing trial and error to figure out the patterns

which is one of gaming's biggest bullshit difficulty types
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
I like Dunkey but I'm only posting this because someone called it out and you asked for receipts.


6 years ago he said "nigga" in a video.

I still watch Dunkey and understand he has said both "nigga" and "faggot" without apologizing but both instances happened multiple years ago without another instance cropping up since. I don't know if he's just playing it wise and refraining from including that stuff in videos so he doesn't get called out again or if he has really changed. I'm gonna believe he has changed for the better but if he says something offensivee like that again I'm willing to drop him.


It just feels like on this board it's one strike and you're done. I have completely avoided the RedLetterMedia thread in EtcetEra because no good will come from sticking my nose into that conversation, and anytime I see Dunkey in the title of a thread I know exactly how it's going to play out. The constant thread derailments really should be looked at in instances like this. If the topic was solely about his past bad behavior then sure, talk about it all you want but almost half the posts in this thread alone are strictly about Dunkey's past when it has nothing to do with the OP.
Well this is another example of, him saying a word in this case because he's trying to sound like a rapper, which many, many young white people have done, intending no racism or even aware that it would. This is especially true for white people I have known who grow up in more majority black neighborhood. They talk like those around them. That doesn't make it a good word. They should not do that. Like. Let me clear. They shouldn't. But that doesn't mean that they are really aware that it's not okay to do, or even if they are aware it's edgy, doesn't mean they're aware that it's greatly offensive. But I also don't think this can tell us about his views on black people, which saying he is an unapologetic racist definitely implies, meaning it's just...it's not really accurate to say. And that's the problem with it. Especially when people start taking his LoL situation -- which is the only controversial situation (other than the reviewers thing I guess?) that he has double down on -- and combining it with this other stuff to create completely false statements.

I agree with the rest of your post.

The problem is people will just say Dunkey is a thing, which makes people think he does thus and so, when really he only did one instance of minor thing.

If Dunkey were to continue to say bad things, then I will drop him. Also, if he starts like, aggressively implying bad things without saying them, I'll drop him for that too. I've done it before. Pogo, Jontron, Boogie, etc.
 

MaverickHunterAsh

GameXplain
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
272
Shit. Really on the fence here. I've been a big Dunkey fan for quite awhile but had never heard he was one of "those" gaming YouTubers, or even alt right-adjacent. If he is, I certainly couldn't ever continue to support him (I'm sure he'd really miss my sub). JonTron and Pewdiepie and the like have repeatedly outed themselves as pure alt-right scum and should be regarded as such, after all.

But reading through this thread, it sounds like maybe Dunkey isn't? He used one instance each of racist and homophobic language several years ago, which is abhorrent and while he hasn't apologized -- which I find equally disgusting -- he also has so thoroughly avoided using that language in the years since (as far as I'm aware, and I've seen a lot of his videos) that I never knew he had ever been problematic or could be associated with the scummy underbelly of gaming YouTubers.

I'll have to think this one through. Love the guy's content and he's always come off to me as good people, but I also have zero tolerance for racism and homophobia in my life and I'm not sure if he hasn't used that language since because he's actually made positive changes and knows better now or because he simply doesn't want to court controversy but is racist + homophobic in his personal life.

I do believe people can better themselves, though, and that we should allow (insofar as it's reasonable) people the chance to do so if they make an earnest effort to. The question is, did Dunkey make that effort or is he just hiding his hate and bigotry from public view now? We'll probably never know, but I have to say, I'm having trouble reasoning why he wouldn't just come out and apologize already if he really had changed for the better. :/

Damn shame this is something we have to be wary of at all, let alone with so many gaming personalities. If only people could just be, you know, good.
 
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Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
Shit. Really on the fence here. I've been a big Dunkey fan for quite awhile but had never heard he was one of "those" gaming YouTubers, or even alt right-adjacent. If he is, I certainly couldn't ever continue to support him (I'm sure he'd really miss my sub). JonTron and the like have repeatedly outed themselves as pure scum and should be regarded as such, after all.

But reading through this thread, it sounds like maybe Dunkey isn't? He used one instance each of racist and homophobic language several years ago, which is abhorrent and while he hasn't apologized -- which I find equally disgusting -- he also has so thoroughly avoided using that language in the years since (as far as I'm aware, and I've seen a lot of his videos) that I never knew he had ever been problematic or could be associated with the scummy underbelly of gaming YouTubers.

I'll have to think this one through. Love the guy's content and he's always come off to me as good people, but I also have zero tolerance for racism and homophobia in my life and I'm not sure if he hasn't used that language since because he's actually made positive changes and knows better now or because he simply doesn't want to court controversy but is racist + homophobic in his personal life.

Damn shame this is something we have to be wary of at all, let alone with so many gaming personalities. If only people could just be, you know, good.
So I used to share this sentiment.....and okay I still do and it bums me out but

Scott the Woz!!!

He even bleeps out swearing lmao. He's fun and wholesome, and scratches that Jontron itch for me.

Doesn't make the Jontron situation hurt any less for me, but hey, it's always good to find new and better content. I don't think Scott has even breathed something that made me raise an eyebrow.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,240
Again, mentioning Dunkey's problematic behavior is NOT derailment.

Here's a staff post from a previous Dunkey thread:

I mean just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's not derailment. It's literally derailing from the actual respective topic at hand if it wasn't the original topic in the first place. That's the definition of a derailment. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's most definetly derailment.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
I mean just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's not derailment. It's literally derailing from the actual respective topic at hand if it wasn't the original topic in the first place. That's the definition of a derailment. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's most definetly derailment.
Yeah I was gonna say...

If the mods have allowed it, then that's up to them. But like, definitionally it does derail away from the initial topic, which is what people mean when they are saying that.
 

minimaxir

Built an AI that makes better threads than you
Member
May 9, 2018
1,754
Let’s be honest, 1-1 with a twist isn’t even that hard. Once you know the pattern of navigation, it’s a short breeze.
That's somewhat reductive. Even Kaizo levels aren't "that hard" once you know what to do; the hard part is the execution. This level requires a good amount of precision for 40 seconds with no save states.
 

The Struggler

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 3, 2019
739
Yeah I was gonna say...

If the mods have allowed it, then that's up to them. But like, definitionally it does derail away from the initial topic, which is what people mean when they are saying that.
I mean shit i got a warning from a mod in a gears 5 thread bringing up my concerns because no single player footage has been shown, so whats the difference then?
 

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
7,269
Syracuse, NY
I mean just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's not derailment. It's literally derailing from the actual respective topic at hand if it wasn't the original topic in the first place. That's the definition of a derailment. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's most definetly derailment.
It's also happening more and more often in threads and I personally think the rules should be looked at again and possibly adjusted in instances like this. I mentioned the RedLetterMedia thread in EtcetEra and while I enjoy RLM I don't have a problem with that thread existing because it obviously highlights problems. BUT constantly barging into any thread about an RLM video is not the place to have that discussion, same goes with Dunkey. As soon as I see those two names in a thread title and the topic isn't about their past behavior within the first page it almost certainly will become the topic.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,544
It just feels like on this board it's one strike and you're done. I have completely avoided the RedLetterMedia thread in EtcetEra because no good will come from sticking my nose into that conversation, and anytime I see Dunkey in the title of a thread I know exactly how it's going to play out. The constant thread derailments really should be looked at in instances like this. If the topic was solely about his past bad behavior then sure, talk about it all you want but almost half the posts in this thread alone are strictly about Dunkey's past when it has nothing to do with the OP.
Kind of, yeah, and there's also a lot of guilt by association. E.g., you are friends with someone who is friends with someone who is friends with someone who did something bad -- now we have to debate cancelling you in every thread. It's too much.

Life can't be black and white. If you try to force it to be, you aren't left with anything
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,131
I mean just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's not derailment. It's literally derailing from the actual respective topic at hand if it wasn't the original topic in the first place. That's the definition of a derailment. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's most definetly derailment.
Derailment is the act of bringing something off-topic into a discussion. Dunkey's problematic behavior is on topic as it is a thread about the individual and their content.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,094
Derailment is the act of bringing something off-topic into a discussion. Dunkey's problematic behavior is on topic as it is a thread about the individual and their content.
That's a really wide net, and pretty much makes anything you bring up not derailment cause you could attach it to their person somehow.
 

NoMoreTrolls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,619
Texas
Derailment is the act of bringing something off-topic into a discussion. Dunkey's problematic behavior is on topic as it is a thread about the individual and their content.
A problematic thing he said two years ago in a video not about Mario maker isn't particularly relevant to a thread about Dunkey playing a level in Mario maker, no.
We could also talk about the real estate prices in the area he lives in, or his engagement/marital status, or sex life. All of it would be equally irrelevant to the thread in that it is only tangentially related to the content of the OP.
 

The Struggler

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 3, 2019
739
Derailment is the act of bringing something off-topic into a discussion. Dunkey's problematic behavior is on topic as it is a thread about the individual and their content.
Ehhhhh not sure about that one fam. I got a warning about bringing up no campaign footage for gears 5 in a gears 5 thread. The thread was broadly about the multiplayer but as you take it tech then it was about the game and its content, tech I should not have got a warning for derailment then based on your example
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,240
Derailment is the act of bringing something off-topic into a discussion. Dunkey's problematic behavior is on topic as it is a thread about the individual and their content.
Not really. You can derail threads in all sorts of ways, it does not have to be off topic. And even if it was, the topic here is his video, not his comments from years ago. But please read my response to the fellow poster below:
I mean shit i got a warning from a mod in a gears 5 thread bringing up my concerns because no single player footage has been shown, so whats the difference then?
For the mods it's most likely because homophobia is something that some people here have to suffer through on a daily basis, unlike concerns over singleplayer footage of a videogame. I get where they are coming from, people can barely voice their concern anywhere else so they should get a platform here. I'm not sure giving them a free pass to derail any thread that's even remotely close to these concerns is the right way, but that's up to the mods to figure out, not us.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,131
A problematic thing he said two years ago in a video not about Mario maker isn't particularly relevant to a thread about Dunkey playing a level in Mario maker, no.
It's a thread promoting content from an individual who said problematic things he never apologized for. If he came out and gave a proper apology things would be different.
 

Bufbaf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,418
Hamburg, Germany
Kind of, yeah, and there's also a lot of guilt by association. E.g., you are friends with someone who is friends with someone who is friends with someone who did something bad -- now we have to debate cancelling you in every thread. It's too much.

Life can't be black and white. If you try to force it to be, you aren't left with anything
If you search for connections you'll find them anyway almost certainly. Someone earlier mentioned trihex as a bastion of good. He's also doing a podcast and videos with destiny. Who recently got banned from here because I don't even know, and people on here shunned him ever since despite being one of the biggest actual voices of reason towards right wingers, misogynists and literal Nazis. Now what, trihex is out as well? What about Hasan Piker? What about Contrapoints, who also made videos with him?

It's one thing if we're talking actual horrible people who don't learn anything, boogie, PewDiePie, JonTron, but yeah. Again, sometimes it feels like we've got people from elsewhere in here who deliberately want to paint era as a hate machine it's not. But who knows, maybe it is, sometimes.

I dunno man it's late over here :( I'm sorry for derailing even more but this whole thing made me think about it as well.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
It's a thread promoting content from an individual who said problematic things he never apologized for. If he came out and gave a proper apology things would be different.
The reason derailment is a bannable defense is because it results in unproductive conversation that often is done to death. That is exactly what happens in Dunkey threads. Of course it's related. Else it wouldn't happen. But the point, just like with drive-bys, is that it clogs up a thread trying to be about one thing (in this case, the difficulty of the level and the jokes about it in the video, which some people are still trying and having a hard time with that discussion), and always diverts them to another. They are related topics, but they are different topics. If related topics were always okay, derailment would never be able to be enforced.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,131
It would for me. Like for example Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (Game Grumps) said some horrible shit years ago, but he made multiple genuine apologies and I consider him good now. Will everyone accept and forgive? Probably not, but that shouldn't be used as a reason to dismiss someone taking responsibility for their actions.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,693
My brother actually met Dunkey and Leabee once while going to see Black Panther, I believe. He told dunkey he dropped his spaghetti and meatballs, they both laughed and then sat and watched the movie.

Fin.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,842
I'm reluctant to get dragged into the meta-discussion, and heaven knows I've tried to drag this back to Mario Maker already, but I'm glad people are speaking up about this forum's pattern of tacitly sanctioned derailing. I don't even like Dunkey's content for the most part (to me it's 90% insufferable and 10% ingenious, and it took me a long time to warm to that 10%), and rarely find either him or any other YouTuber (press-connected or otherwise) thread-worthy, but the people who come into every one of these to drop their opposition research are really not doing the cause of civility or inclusion any favours.

The "Cancel Culture" of this board is encouraged (provided you're being cancelled for the 'right reasons') and you're fooling yourself if you believe the mods will lift a finger to prevent it from happening.

I'm not going to pretend like Dunkey didn't do a shitty thing, but I learned awhile ago to just separate art from artist and move on with my life. You dig deep enough into anybody's past and you're gonna find some shit that stinks.
In the end, I think that all we can do—as exasperated members who know that the governing policy isn't on our side—to lead by example, not get baited, and normalize staying on topic, so the derailments aren't normalized in their stead. It's harder to do it, I think, when there isn't much substance to the content under discussion and actually not much to talk about, which I think is the problem with comedy videos like this one; there isn't much to say beyond laughing and moving on, so all the micro-celebrity gossip washes in to fill the vacuum. But every run-of-the-mill on-topic post does its own little part in not letting social-media-history vigilantism totally run the place.

(I fully recognize the hypocrisy of lobbying for this in an off-topic, post-derailment meta-post.)

This is another part of it. You guys just fucking lie. Dunkey never doubled-down on the F word. Ever. But you guys are fine with slinging a bunch of bullshit because ultimately it drags his name through the mud and he's a bad person so it doesn't matter if you aren't telling the truth. You'll find some way of saying your objectively wrong statements are tangentially related to the truth, even though you're misleading those who come into these threads and don't know the situation. You want to paint Dunkey as bad and evil as possible (I still laugh at the one guy who vaguely said Dunkey has "dangerous ideas" lol, which that person ought to have known would definitely not paint an accurate picture; makes him sound like a right ring recruiter), and so you're fine with bending the truth and generalizing in ways that make it sound worse than he is. Probably some of you because you're worried presenting the truth at the outset won't be severe enough to convince someone to vilify him.

It is perfectly fine to not support Dunkey. I absolutely understand. But sorry if I find twisting the truth and inaccuracies about someone's sins highly problematic. That shit quickly runs out of control, and that's not okay.

It just contributes to the toxic conversation that always arises in these threads, because rightly it causes people not to take you seriously.
As always, thanks for sticking your head above the line and calling this out.

People have such short memories around here. It's like they don't remember what just happened with Etika only weeks ago, where in the thread reporting his death there were still individuals bringing up their collected receipts from old misdeeds, as if it provided a full justification for their own callousness and lack of empathy.

I can't imagine devoting the sheer degree of wasteful attention it must take to keep mental dossiers on every minor entertainment figure's record of verbal misconduct, and to stay ever vigilant for any thread bearing their name or drawing attention to their content so you can dump gasoline on it, hide behind the mods, and maybe even bait a few bans. I don't envy it in the slightest: this confluence of hyper-record-keeping with the intellectual laziness of embellishing and sensationalizing the offences unchecked, and never with any personal consequences. It's a waste of everyone's time, and it actively works against its own purported cause by leaving everybody exhausted and ready to tune it all out.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,444
I'm reluctant to get dragged into the meta-discussion, and heaven knows I've tried to drag this back to Mario Maker already, but I'm glad people are speaking up about this forum's pattern of tacitly sanctioned derailing. I don't even like Dunkey's content for the most part (to me it's 90% insufferable and 10% ingenious, and it took me a long time to warm to that 10%), and rarely find either him or any other YouTuber (press-connected or otherwise) thread-worthy, but the people who come into every one of these to drop their opposition research are really not doing the cause of civility or inclusion any favours.



In the end, I think that all we can do—as exasperated members who know that the governing policy isn't on our side—to lead by example, not get baited, and normalize staying on topic, so the derailments aren't normalized in their stead. It's harder to do it, I think, when there isn't much substance to the content under discussion and actually not much to talk about, which I think is the problem with comedy videos like this one; there isn't much to say beyond laughing and moving on, so all the micro-celebrity gossip washes in to fill the vacuum. But every run-of-the-mill on-topic post does its own little part in not letting social-media-history vigilantism totally run the place.

(I fully recognize the hypocrisy of lobbying for this in an off-topic, post-derailment meta-post.)



As always, thanks for sticking your head above the line and calling this out.

People have such short memories around here. It's like they don't remember what just happened with Etika only weeks ago, where in the thread reporting his death there were still individuals bringing up their collected receipts from old misdeeds, as if it provided a full justification for their own callousness and lack of empathy.

I can't imagine devoting the sheer degree of wasteful attention it must take to keep mental dossiers on every minor entertainment figure's record of verbal misconduct, and to stay ever vigilant for any thread bearing their name or drawing attention to their content so you can dump gasoline on it, hide behind the mods, and maybe even bait a few bans. I don't envy it in the slightest: this confluence of hyper-record-keeping with the intellectual laziness of embellishing and sensationalizing the offences unchecked, and never with any personal consequences. It's a waste of everyone's time, and it actively works against its own purported cause by leaving everybody exhausted and ready to tune it all out.
In a weird way, I kinda think that that obsessive hyper-record-keeping as you say, is stressful in itself, and kind of perpetuates itself. It just adds to the stress these people have about these others, and so keeps it on their minds, like a snowball, if that makes any sense whatsoever lol.
 
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