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Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,211
I love VF but in America it's practically unknown. more people recognize even tekken. it's less well known than Daytona and that hasn't had a real home release in almost 2 decades

fighters megamix was the peak of fighting games tho imo

You say more people recognise "even" Tekken, like Tekken isn't hugely fucking recognisable, lol. Tekken is Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat tier.

Fighters Megamix was awesome for what it was, but it was by no means the peak of the genre, even in limited to just the Saturn (where VF2 is better).

EDIT: Also, the idea that Sega (fucking SEGA) wouldn't have the resources to put out a VF6, when you have ArcSys making shit like Guilty Gear Xrd from scratch?... Yea, I'm not hearing that.
 

Leafhopper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,047
in a 2011 interview, Daichi Katagiri admitted that only around 12 devs created Final Showdown. i think that's pretty outstanding, but it also informs why 6 is taking so long, if we accept the possibility that 6 is a thing.
I knew they were tight on people but, that's crazy. Granted a lot of VF5 was already done but, gosh.
 

oneida

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,912
You say more people recognise "even" Tekken, like Tekken isn't hugely fucking recognisable, lol. Tekken is Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat tier.

Fighters Megamix was awesome for what it was, but it was by no means the peak of the genre, even in limited to just the Saturn (where VF2 is better).
i prefer the VF3 movelist in Megamix to the VF2 movelist, but VF2 on Saturn is such an outstanding technical achievement, and i have a lot of sentimental memories of playing it with my brother, so i usually end up playing it instead.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,500
in a 2011 interview, Daichi Katagiri admitted that only around 12 devs created Final Showdown. i think that's pretty outstanding, but it also informs why 6 is taking so long, if we accept the possibility that 6 is a thing.

That is wild!

I mean, a proper VF6 (even if is just digital) will make good money if prorperly marketed.

Why Sega can't see this? Look at the sales for recent fighting games. It is money literally left on the table. Sega will rather spent money in a game like Sonic Forces which had diminishing sales and a bleak critic response. Why not increase that group of VF Final Showdown and solely focus on a successor to VF5? Sometimes, I wonder what these companies have in their mind.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,233
Really? Whenever I watch Tekken 7, I just think it's one of the dumbest things ever. As Leafhopper has said, VF was always about the technical execution and being a great fighting game. No unnecessary fat.

You won't get far with this attitude. Fat is what makes people try and play your game. Nobody start playing a game because is "technical" (whatever it means).
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,211
i prefer the VF3 movelist in Megamix to the VF2 movelist, but VF2 on Saturn is such an outstanding technical achievement, and i have a lot of sentimental memories of playing it with my brother, so i usually end up playing it instead.

Yea, VF3 moveset > VF2 moveset. But with Fighter's Megamix you can always feel that you're essentially playing VF characters modded into Fighting Vipers. I love the game, but if it were one or the other, I'd stick with any actual Virtua Fighter from 2 onwards.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,211
Really? I thought VF5:Final Showdown was the best I'd ever seen the game in terms of animations. Only the audio was deeply lacking...

Animation are great yes (but VF animations have always been great). I'm talking about its style. Imagine for a moment you've never even heard of Virtua Fighter before, being only familiar with Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and perhaps some Killer Instinct. You walk into an arcade in two separate parallel dimensions, and your first ever look at a Virtua Fighter game is either:

Virtua Fighter 4 (obviously without the horrendous interlacing... couldn't find any decent quality capture)

or...

Virtua Fighter 5

In which parallel universe are you more likely to end up as a Virtua Fighter player?
 

oneida

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,912
Animation are great yes (but VF animations have always been great). I'm talking about its style. Imagine for a moment you've never even heard of Virtua Fighter before, being only familiar with Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and perhaps some Killer Instinct. You walk into an arcade in two separate parallel dimensions, and your first ever look at a Virtua Fighter game is either:

Virtua Fighter 4 (obviously without the horrendous interlacing... couldn't find any decent quality capture)

or...

Virtua Fighter 5

In which parallel universe are you more likely to end up as a Virtua Fighter player?
not gonna lie, i love the VF5 vanilla intro :,)
 
Oct 27, 2017
326
I played it maybe once at the arcade. The visuals were cool for their time, but why is it remembered fondly? What was the gameplay like?
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
I'll always think it was a big missed opportunity on Sega's part not to port Final Showdown to PC when the landscape for 3D fighters was still barren on Steam. It's too little too late for it now, but back in 2012? I think it would have been a great opportunity for the series. A ~$15 release at a time where there were no real 3D fighters on the platform? I think there would've been an audience for that.
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
Animation are great yes (but VF animations have always been great). I'm talking about its style. Imagine for a moment you've never even heard of Virtua Fighter before, being only familiar with Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and perhaps some Killer Instinct. You walk into an arcade in two separate parallel dimensions, and your first ever look at a Virtua Fighter game is either:

Virtua Fighter 4 (obviously without the horrendous interlacing... couldn't find any decent quality capture)

or...

Virtua Fighter 5

In which parallel universe are you more likely to end up as a Virtua Fighter player?

Okay yeah that VF 5 intro is pretty lame. Like they recorded the out-takes from the actual intro and just went with that. Well if we're talking about that then they should just go full Tekken-style CG intro. I remember people gathering around to gawp at the Tekken 3 intro back in the day.
 

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,713
Upstate NY
It's likely because there hasn't been a new installment in such a long time. Other 3D fighting series like Tekken and Soul Calibur keep returning so they stay fresh in peoples minds. Virtua Fighter is basically dead.
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,211
Okay yeah that VF 5 intro is pretty lame. Like they recorded the out-takes from the actual intro and just went with that. Well if we're talking about that then they should just go full Tekken-style CG intro. I remember people gathering around to gawp at the Tekken 3 intro back in the day.

Yea. It's not just the intro though (though I did pick it because it's especially lame and drives the point home). Stylistically VF4 was just more appealing across the board, where VF5 looks really goofy by comparison. If you don't already appreciate Virtua Fighter for its gameplay, then seeing VF5 would likely turn you of from the game. Even during gameplay VF4 looked pretty cool (arguably moreso than Tekken 4 did at the same time). Nearly every character looks better in VF4 as opposed to VF5 also (don't even get me started on Vanessa).
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,549
This is basically what happened with almost every single Sega ip. They managed them in the worst way possible, and the arcade legacy in gaming has been wiped out from memories.
 

ranmafan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
313
Its a real shame that the series has slowly started to fade away from the consciousness of the gaming world. Even here in Japan I feel like the series has been forgotten in a lot of ways by many players and I just don't get why. I still hope for a 6 to come sometime, but its been so long since the last release and Sega just keeps sitting on so many of their classic franchises they could try and resurrect (like for example Sakura Taisen as well). For me, Ill take any Virtua Fighter over any other fighting game always.
 
Dec 3, 2017
1,127
Virtua Fighter games were technical marvels through 1996. Virtua Fighter 3 looked better than any fighting game made until the 21st century (even the Dreamcast Soul Calibur is technically inferior to the arcade VF3), which is insane. Quake came out in 1996. Look at screenshots of the first Quake and the arcade Virtua Fighter 3. It's bonkers. It was literally years ahead.

Think about even the name "Virtua Fighter." It sounds like a tech demo. The games, like most of the Sega Model X arcade games, were basically tech demos showing off what you could do with absurdly expensive and overpowered hardware at the time.

Take away the graphical superiority and people just don't care that much. People generally preferred the gameplay in Capcom and Namco fighting games, and without the graphical advantage, there wasn't much left.
 

Karak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
I adore it and still play various versions many times a month. And its just sad to me. I enjoyed how different it felt.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Doesn't help that Sega has abandoned the series for some fucking reason. Company is run by a bunch of morons.
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
I'm pretty sure VF6 project is a think inside Sega, maybe even in a playable demo state, but I think the project lacks of someone within sega capable of championing it and delivers a full VF experience. It's just a feel.

All the Virtua games are in decline. I remember when I gave FIFA the finger to go and play Virtua Striker

I think current market need some Virtua Striker love (or any arcade sport title FWIW)
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,815
Sega became very good at killing their best franchises with Sonic being the sole survivor from the classic Sega era (despite Sega's best efforts to kill the series). They've poisoned the well with so many of their franchises and Sega as a company has changed so much that I don't really know what they even could bring back that I would have much faith in. The new Daytona sounds cool but they don't seem to have any plans to bring that home and the new House of the Dead sounds interesting but these days on-rail shooters can kind of only come home to VR devices which would mean they would be taking the game from one niche market to another. They're also making the new Valkyria Chronicles but I have a hard time believing that will be any good. There's also A Certain Magical Virtual-On which... could be good? I have no idea what to think of that game.
Basically, all they have left is Yakuza and Sonic (and Total War if you want to lump in their PC output) but even then only Yakuza has been consistently good.
 
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Kyussons

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,414
Virtua Fighter is surely becoming more underappreciated as time goes on

Sure it is, and it really is a shame, the legacy of the series goes unnoticed by many. VF not only created and redefined a genre it also had a huge impact on the industry as whole. VF is one of the most important games of all time ( up there with Mario, Zelda OOT, Tetris, Half Life...)

Let me summarize some of the series milestones:

- First 3D fighting game, build the bases of an entire genre. Almost every 3D fighting game was bulid on VFs foundations.

- Sega brought the 3D graphics technology to the masses, in 1993 doom used sprites , capcom games were running on CPS-2 ... the PlayStation was originally being considered as a 2D focused hardware, and it was not until the success of Virtua Fighter in the arcades that they decided to design the PlayStation as a 3D focused hardware.

- Brought new technology into the industry such as texture-mapping and motion capture.

- Received the American Smithsonian Institution's Computer World Smithsonian Award in 1998. In a first for Japan's game industry, Virtua Fighter became a part of the Smithsonian Institution's Permanent Research Collection on Information Technology Innovation

- Became a social phenomenon in japan, with appearances on tv shows; area names, character names and martial arts moves' names became widely known across Japan, and helped VF to develop a strong following in the gaming scene.

- Network services such as VF.NET and ALL.Net have been available since VF4 ( 2001 ). This was coming at the beginning of a big broadband boom in Japan. Helped arcades to adopt the broadband infrastructure and thanks to ALL.Net, Tekken 5 became really popular . VF.net offered ranking and socialization network for players.

- Sega introduced its VF4 Character Access Card retaining a record of each game played.

- Esports ? VF had a thriving competitive scene much before quake and others even existed. VF had nation-wide tournaments, events and contests that generated a lot of interest. ( Remember there were not cellphones, internet...at the time).

- Overwatch contenders ? Sega had the Star Player system, they created a group of pro players and had them travel to local tournaments and events.

- Loot boxes ? Fuck them, VF did item customization sooner & better.

- Share button ? VF5 offered Twitter and Youtube integration in 2009.

And lets not forget about dat VF4 console training system and the Quest mode, being able to use the ps2 memory card to carry over your characters data, the arcade cab link system, VF TV...

VF embodies excellence, every new entry in the series raised their standards. In Am2's own words: the duty of Virtua Fighter is "to offer the best battle tool with the state-of-the-art technologies".

Every FG fan should give VF a chance, the game is only as complex as you want it to be. The mind games and the ability to read your opponent well really decides who wins or loses. The animation and core system also help a lot, the diversity of how attacks flow from one move to another gives players a lot of freedom to play their characters with a great deal of individuality.

It is a shame that Sega dropped the ball on the console front with a barebones VF5 with no online for PS3 and the budget release of VF5FS. VF4 performed really well on console.

I don't think Virtua Fighter would benefit from a Rage Art / Ultra stlye mechanic tbh. Y

Do you guys remember this video Am2 posted on aprils fool day ?

https://youtu.be/Lo_oTzd0k58

" you know, maybe some R&D staff goofed around a few times, and maybe… maybe it wasn't entirely made specifically for April Fool's Day" DK VF5 game director

in a 2011 interview, Daichi Katagiri admitted that only around 12 devs created Final Showdown. i think that's pretty outstanding, but it also informs why 6 is taking so long, if we accept the possibility that 6 is a thing.

50 + temp workers for a mainline VF.
http://gaming.moe/?p=2873

I still believe VF6 is coming, they even acknowledged being working on concepts & ideas for a new entry back in 2013. But my hope is fading away XD.
Either the 2015 restructuring hit Am2 hard and they lack the manpower ( almost 200 layoffs from the arcade business in Japan ) and/or VF is far behind on their priority list, or the project was canned at some point in development.

These last years Am1 has been pumping out more games than Am2 and both studios are using more 3rd party licensed IPs than ever, with card, rpg & rhythm games being the main focus. So yeah, things are not looking good for VF rn.
 
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Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
If Virtua Fighter is not appreciated very much, then it's appreciated exactly the right amount.

Always found it to be the dullest of all of the big fighting franchises. Lacks any personality.
 

LightEntite

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
It's a SEGA Franchise. It's dead.

I know it's hard, but it's never coming back.

And if it does, you'd probably wish that it didn't.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,365
I was encouraged a few years ago, but its been so long since Final Showdown that I just don't see VF6 happening without outside investment. They don't have the brand name of Tekken or a dedicated audience of blue whales to purchase thousands of dollars of DLC (myself included) like Dead or Alive. Virtua Fighter has never been a multimedia franchise so they can't bank on licensing to subsidize it either. If VF6 does come, I'll be there (and expect it to be incredibly bare bones unfortunately), either way I am not going to get my hopes up.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,371
VF5 launching exclusively for ps3 with no online play was a horrible idea.

That generation was so strange, and I really agree that the way vanilla VF5 came out hamstrung their efforts that whole gen. You had one platform that was both an arbitrary engineering challenge and also had incomplete infrastructure for well past its launch window, but enough momentum from the previous generation that publishers were still inclined to push their efforts there. To the point where games were missing online play.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,534
Of the plethora of fighting games out there, I have never been into Virtua Fighter.
Has never clicked with me....

Street Fighter/Marvel
Tekken
Soul Caliber
Dead or Alive
Mortal Kombat
Killer Instinct
..
Rival Schools
Star Gladiator
..
..
Blood Roar...

and then somewhere next to Clay Fighter is Virtua Fighter.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,310
Virtua Fighter has always been under appreciated in the west unfortunately. It's reputation for being obtuse and for hardcore only was unjustified. I find the 3 button setup and move execution easier then most other fighters. Also quest mode still remains probably the best single player fighting game mode for having decent enough AI to actually help teach you how to play the game.

It's biggest failing has always been the presentation though. Just adding some endings in arcade mode would have been a start.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,534
There are times someone is just so obviously fishing for a reaction, it's just sort of sad. It's cool if you didn't like VF, and you're definitely not alone.

I don't think anywhere in there did a bash Virtua Fighter for actually being a bad game. Because obviously that's not true.
 

RiggityRice

Member
Oct 28, 2017
218
Man I was playing Virtua Fighter 2 the other day and got to the 6 or 7 stage and kept getting my ass whooped no matter who I picked or who I faced. CPU Kept cheesin it with those damn juggle combos. Pissed me off
 

Deleted member 13550

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,417
Was messing around in VF5s training mode just yesterday, doing some Burning Hammers because it's the greatest move ever. I'm happy that i'll be able to play it on Ps4 when Yakuza 6 releases, even if it's just Arcade Mode. Sucks that both DOA and VF6 are nowhere to be found at the moment, Tekken and SoulCal unfortunately dont interest me anymore.
 

MrMephistoX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
It's pretty sad but VF5 going BC on Xbox One was a big selling point for me in plunking down the change to get a one X...that and Virtual On. Honestly I think the game could be huge F2P on PC and Consoles. Just emulate the Killer Instinct and DOA Business model with a rotating roster of free characters and then charge whales up the ass for fan service outfits for Pei and Sarah.
 

Ninjimbo

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,731
Yeah, VF5 is the pinnacle of the 3D fighter yet without a new entry in so long, it seems like a series that's going to be forgotten about completely. Bless the developers like Namco and Team Ninja for keeping the genre alive. I wish Sega would join them but I understand why they don't.

VF, as brilliant as it can be mechanically, just doesn't seem to have a place in today's world of flash and glamour.
 

Space Cobra

Member
Oct 30, 2017
75
VF1-3 were just PPPK>Stomp games for me as a kid. Part 1 was really impressive due to the novelty of 3d and ring outs but once Tekken came out, VF seemed really sterile and unsatisfying by comparison.

It wasn't until 4 that I got into the series; largely due to the amazing training mode and also Lei-Fei, who was both flashy and easy to use. Then once Evolution came out(Sad this couldn't sell even at $19 msrp) I switched to Goh and truly got hooked. Have enjoyed the series ever since. Shame it never caught on in the US but we're well beyond the point where one can lament over that.
 

Gonzalez

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,679
Was the Virtua Fighter anime any good?
latest
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,334
I was surprised to see that Virtua Fighter was nowhere to be found in Tokyo arcades. If there's anywhere in the world that should have it, it would be there. I visited probably 10-15 places including a few of Sega's own branded arcades, nothing. That really makes it hard to see them caring anymore.
 

Molto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,022
I'm super glad VF5FS is on the Xbone BC at least, because that's likely the last entry the series will ever get.