• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,019
Wait, so their problem is that the Best Animated Film slot has good films?

I mean, sure The Lego Movie was a fun time, but I don't think it's Oscar worthy in the same way, say, The Red Turtle might be. I like that the category gets odd picks. It's up to the academy to actually watch them, though.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,228
Lol...really?

BH6 wasnt even in the top 5 best reviewed animated films of the year.

At least the game awards arent above allowing big budget foreign efforts to win.
Or do you think Kaguya is a cheap indie film?
And who gives a shit about reviews? BH6 won because it was the best movie of that year in the eyes of majority.
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
And who gives a shit about reviews? BH6 won because it was the best movie of that year in the eyes of majority.
This majority?
for that movie not to be in over these two obscure freakin' Chinese fuckin' things that nobody ever freakin' saw [an apparent reference to the Japanese film The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, as well as the Irish film Song of the Sea]?
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/award-se...ters-are-clueless-about-animation-109456.html
It was certainly the most seen film by people who barely gave a shit.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,380
Does anyone in this thread agree with this? I find it mind boggling.
Mind boggling? How is the idea that Disney and Pixar are producing great work mind boggling? :|

Not getting the recognition they deserve is not the same as none whatsoever. Again, you seem satisfied with the status quo of small and better films not getting a chance to find a wider audience and be celebrated accordingly. A lot of us don't agree.
That chance isn't solely dependent on the oscars specifically.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
I thought The Lego Movie was better than every other animation nominated that year. I'm not here to compare whose snub was the worst, but a movie of The Lego Movie's success and acclaim getting shut out was beyond baffling.
And I thought both Song of the Sea and Kaguya were better films, though all three were excellent. Neither of our opinions matter here.

The thing is the films that reviewed better than The Lego Movie were Song of the Sea and Kaguya, yet the academy's solution is to develop voting rules that aim to exclude films just like that! Regardless of your feelings towards The Lego Movie not making it in, we can all agree that's the wrong solution, hopefully.
 

peyrin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,408
California
At least we have the Annie Awards... those are the real prizes that folks in the industry covet.

Incidentally, they had the foresight to split the award into two this year... Best Animated Feature and Best Independent Animated Feature.
This will essentially allow Disney/Pixar to win their annual prize and allow a special film like The Breadwinner or Loving Vincent to win a category that's actually competitive.

True but it does have the unfortunate side effect of shoehorning any foreign production into that category while everything else is 100% American.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
Mind boggling? How is the idea that Disney and Pixar are producing great work mind boggling? :|


That chance isn't solely dependent on the oscars specifically.
It's mind boggling that Disney/Pixar works are apperently so fantastic and the employees there are so talented that they somehow win damn near 13 years running now (with one exception). That their films are somehow so artistically beautiful that even when their story is mediocre, they're still the best films in the entire medium year on year without fail. That's mind boggling.

I love Disney/Pixar films. I think a lot of wins they absolutely deserved. But I don't think the artists who work there are any more talented than those that work at Ghibli, or Cartoon Saloon, or any of the amazing French studios. And I don't think good rendering can make up for a bad story, especially if you're not any more impressive visually than the other films that come out in the same year.
 
Last edited:

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
Mind boggling? How is the idea that Disney and Pixar are producing great work mind boggling? :|

Sure, they produce good work.

BUT SO DO MANY OTHER STUDIOS

And the fact that you're saying BH6 deserved to win just because it looked nice...

Obviously visuals are important when it comes to animated film but so is the actual story.

The fact that Ghibli of all studios only has one win in the 13 years of the category is a freaking joke. Never mind the smaller studios that have produced great work.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,987
Somewhere.
Even with Disney winning most of the time (through they do quite deserve it sometimes), it is nice to usually see a mix of mainstream and indie films which would get more recognition, so it be pretty damn sad if it really leans so hard to the bigger mainstream stuff.

I still need to see a few indie/foreign films that caught my eye from this last year, like Breadwinner. I kind of wish I least saw a 2nd film at Animation is Film Festival last year, cause that was really awesome to go to.

And fucking lol at them thinking Loving Vincent is deserving of any awards - it's a cool art project that's all style and zero substance. They should have focused on an actual narrative instead of making each frame a ridiculously detailed impressionist painting.

I was happy to see the beauty of Loving Vincent in theaters, but yeah, it was pretty lacking in the narrative, and the paint style could only carried it so far, which wasn't really that much.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,697
Panama
so they want to make the Oscars more a popularity contest than a quality contest?

fine. i don't watch them, have never watched them and i'll keep it that way.
 

Aesthet1c

Member
Oct 27, 2017
921
While this change sucks for the more indy and foreign animated films to get recognized at the Oscars, the headline is super click baity and this isn't going to change anything about the animated film industry.
 

fundogmo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,128
At least we have the Annie Awards... those are the real prizes that folks in the industry covet.
The Annie's might be the best we're going to get, but they're only a modicum of metric better.

Dreamwork's Trollhunters is a cool show and all, but it's nominated up to three separate times in a single categories. And this is aside the fact that very few productions not based in LA ever receive a nomination.

The greatest sin of all is the rumor that DreamWorks has a disproportionate number of paid asifa memberships - or at least that is the only plausible explanation why Kung Fu Panda could sleep the awards the same year as Wall E.

Award shows are inherently broken and borne from self-interest, but indie nominations at the Oscars was the one good of it all. A shame if it goes away because of some salty exec who thinks The Emoji Movie shouldn't be besmirched by nominees like In This Corner of the World or The Breadwinner.
 

SaviourMK2

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
CT
I grow more and more antagonistic toward CGI as time goes on. I'm still leaning toward not seeing Incredibles 2 or Wreck it Ralph 2, the last CGI film I saw was Lego Batman, but thats because I was at the drive-in and needed to see it before they where playing Batman 1989
 

Strider_Blaze

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,981
Lancaster, CA
Yeah that's definitely a sad about the new rule The Academy implementing regarding animated films. I'm still baffled that there was only 3 instances of animated films being nominated for best picture. And it does bother me that most of the Best Animated Picture wins were from Disney, though the one I don't object to is Zootopia (would have been just as happy if Kubo won though). And add me to the list of people that wished Wreck-It Ralph or ParaNorman won rather than Brave.

Honestly generally last year's animated offering were kind of meh, but the ones I did watch I ended up enjoying personally.

Oy I would probably cry if the Emoji Movie ends up nominated, let alone won.
 
Last edited:

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,369
Kitchener, ON
For what it's worth, Coco, The Breadwinner and Loving Vincent are considered locks to be nominated right now.
With the remaining noms likely winding up as Ferdinand and The Lego Batman Movie.
Don't think you need to worry too much about The Emoji Movie making a breakthrough when even the likes of Cars 3 from the hallowed Pixar is getting snubbed.

Of course, there's always room for surprises. The Lego Movie was considered a surefire favorite for this category prior to nomination day 3 years ago. And we all remember how that went.

If there's an unlikely surprise, it'll probably be Boss Baby bouncing one of the indie darlings.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
9/10 winners have been blockbusters...

Yet they are changing this because too many nominations are not blockbusters? The fuck? This is a stupid ass change and makes no sense.

Why don't they just get rid of the foreign film award then if they are that upset that the people who pick animated nominees actually you know..look at the animation and care more about the quality/care/story then just picking what "big" movie made a lot of money at the box office....

I literally never heard of The Red Turtle until the nomination last year, and I watched it because of that and ended up absolutely loving it.
 

Strider_Blaze

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,981
Lancaster, CA
For what it's worth, Coco, The Breadwinner and Loving Vincent are considered locks to be nominated right now.
With the remaining noms likely winding up as Ferdinand and The Lego Batman Movie.
Don't think you need to worry too much about The Emoji Movie making a breakthrough when even the likes of Cars 3 from the hallowed Pixar is getting snubbed.

Of course, there's always room for surprises. The Lego Movie was considered a surefire favorite for this category prior to nomination day 3 years ago. And we all remember how that went.

If there's an unlikely surprise, it'll probably be Boss Baby bouncing one of the indie darlings.

Well then it does make things feel easy for me. And you know what's also gets me bummed out was that previously, animated films that were considered great from the POV of critics nominate those films. To elaborate, some of the films didn't do so well in the box office but when they get nominated at the Academy, there is the chance some of the films will actually get some attention. Like for me there are the films from Cartoon Saloon. Now I haven't watched them myself yet, but it's thanks to their nominations that I'm at least aware of their existence. Maybe it's time I should give them a watch lol. But continuing on, with the new rule it makes me worried that some films will end up being very obscure and general audiences will never know about them, at least until some time passes.

And even if we still have yet to see an animated film win Best Picture in the Oscars, I bet we are gonna ended up having an animated film win Worst Picture at the Razzies and the Emoji Movie became the first animated movie to get that dishonor. And if that happens, let that sink in for a moment.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,626
The "Chinese fucking things" quote still makes me mad. Why vote on something you clearly know nothing about?

And who gives a shit about reviews? BH6 won because it was the best movie of that year in the eyes of majority.
Do you really think the Oscars give a shit about "the eyes of the majority"? The Oscars are decided by vote by Academy members who are not required to have seen every nomination and do not have to adhere to rules regarding their votes. "The majority" of Oscar voters don't give a shit about animation and will either abstain from voting (if they're decent people) or just vote on whatever their kids liked best (which is always the Disney/Pixar film).
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,626
That chance isn't solely dependent on the oscars specifically.
I think you underestimate the amount of publicity an Oscar nom gives a film. Especially independent animation films have a lot to gain from Oscar nominations, because they mostly only screen at festivals because of lack of a distributor and/or money for a wide release. Something like Boy and the World getting nominated is a big push for the creators and will bring in some well-earned recognition from outside the festival circuit.

It's the big studio productions that have very little to gain from Oscar nominations, for a smaller independent movie it can make a huge difference.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
Yeah, three times. The first time it happened it resulted in a separate category being created to try and avoid it ever happening again. The second and third times were only because of the expansion to 10 nominees in the Best Picture category. The year before the expansion, Wall-E managed to not be nominated for Best Picture, which drew criticism at the time.

The Academy does not recognize animated films properly or with the respect they deserve. The Animated Feature category is not for special recognition, it's to get the cartoons out of the way of the "real" movies.

I know perfectly well that the Acadamy looks down on animation. But why would you want it to be even worse of? Scrapping the Best Animated Feature category would give them even less recognition, with maybe a stellar Pixar getting a Best Picture nom every few years, while all the other great works not even getting a chance on a nomination anymore.

You must understand how important a nomination is for smaller, often foreign animated movies. An Oscar nomination puts it on the map, gets other project funded, viewers in the seats... My life as a Zuchini got a rerun where I live (Ghent, Belgium) around Oscar time in the arthouse cinema, and they even distributed the original language version too (almost all non-Disney animations only release dubbed in Flemish here, which is horrible, because they often are translated terribly too, as we don't have a dubbing culture for anything else than animation). And at the moment I am working with the Belgian production company that did the coproduction on Les Triplettes de Belleville and Brendan and the Secret of Kells. Those Oscar noms were priceless promotion for them and a opened a lot of doors...

This new rule can fuck it all up, and I really hope it doesn't so stuff like The Breadwinner can still get a nod. We'll see tuesday. But I'll take a very flawed award system over no award any time.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
Last edited:

Mabase

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,040
I know perfectly well that the Acadamy looks down on animation. But why would you want it to be even worse of? Scrapping the Best Animated Feature category would give them even less recognition, with maybe a stellar Pixar getting a Best Picture nom every few years, while all the other great works not even getting a chance on a nomination anymore.

You must understand how important a nomination is for smaller, often foreign animated movies. An Oscar nomination puts it on the map, gets other project funded, viewers in the seats... My life as a Zuchini got a rerun where I live (Ghent, Belgium) around Oscar time in the arthouse cinema, and they even distributed the original language version too (almost all non-Disney animations only release dubbed in Flemish here, which is horrible, because they often are translated terribly too, as we don't have a dubbing culture for anything else than animation). And at the moment I am working with the Belgian production company that did the coproduction on Les Triplettes de Belleville and Brendan and the Secret of Kells. Those Oscar noms were priceless promotion for them and a opened a lot of doors...

This new rule can fuck it all up, and I really hope it doesn't so stuff like The Breadwinner can still get a nod. We'll see tuesday. But I'll take a very flawed award system over no award any time.

Basically this. Yes, it would be great if the Animated Features also competed more regularily for the Best Picture/ Best Director categories, but the Animation Nominations are so important for these Indie filmmakers and studios.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Could it be that Good Dinosaur.... MU.... and Finding Dory.... just weren't good films. And were also overlooked by strong indie contender? So you mean better fucking films. The award is a straight up free Disney Oscar. They are basically pissed they can't give more to it. Big Hero 6, Brave, and several others were trash and just won because they were Disney.
Good Dinosaur deserved an Oscar for its looks - it was the most beautiful CG movie I've ever seen. Not best picture, because the story wasn't great.

Note though that this is an issue with the Oscars in general, not something special with animated features. They almost always go for pretentious, often indie films over the big super popular blockbusters. They aren't voting on movies that regular people like. So it just fits that the animated categories will often be the unique ones with beautiful hand-animated or fun stop-motion work rather than great blockbusters beloved by the public.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
What, you don't think Big Hero 6 should've won over Princes Kaguya? Frozen over The Wind Rises? Brave over literally everything else that was nominated?

This isn't the Best Animated Feature category. It's the Obligatory Disney Award category.

This change is just sad to me. If it wasn't for the nominations they got I'm not sure I would've known about stuff like The Secret of the Kells and Song of the Sea. Now it's gonna be nothing but crap in this category from this year on.
Princess Kaguya getting snubbed was definitely the main drive for this change. I remember reading articles about the backlash and how some of the Academy people called it "just one of those Chinese things".

As for 2017, I've yet to see Loving Vincent, but the fact it's the first fully painted animated feature film (a collaboration of hunderds of artists) in the style of Van Gogh to tell the story of Van Gogh is just poetic as fuck and an amazing concept. Every single frame is a full painting.

Is it better than Coco, Tehran Taboo or Breadwinner, etc...? Guess I'll find out soon.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
This category is now more useless and worthless than ever before. Get ready for The Boss Baby and Cars 3 to be nominated for an Oscar.

Just delete this shit.

I thought I was kidding, but The Boss Baby (and Ferdinand) actually got nominated for an Oscar.

tenor.gif


The rest Coco, Loving Vincent and The Breadwinner. There you have it, your Obligatory Walt Disney Award nominees.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,626
Lol, nominations for The Boss Baby and Ferdinand. Hilarious.

Anyway, Coco is the obvious winner (again), though I'd love it if either Loving Vincent or The Breadwinner got it.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,369
Kitchener, ON
At least Loving Vincent and Breadwinner landed nominations. Frankly, it could have been worse.
I was worried when I heard the Boss Baby nom kick the category off that it would be at their expense and not other mainstream fodder like Ferdinand and Lego Batman.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
Yeah it seems the rule change affected the last two slots. Not as troubbling as I initially imagined back in April but still annoying.

What bugs me about this is not that big budget CGI films were chosen for those last slots but that the *wrong* CGI big budget films were chosen. I won't comment on Ferdinand because that looks like a genuinely charming film, but you chose The Boss Baby over Captain Underpants or Lego Batman? Really?

Still, not an awful set of noms. Though I feel as if the days of excellent nominees for the category are behind us. No 2016 year will happen again.

Congrats to the nominees. I know any film no matter how it turns out has everyone put their heart and soul into it.

And preemptive congrats to Coco for sweeping the win. Though it's not my pick to win, it's a fantastic film. But it really annoys me that I can say that with such confidence.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
Boss Baby getting in over Silent Voice and In This Corner of the World is such a travesty it retroactively makes a joke of the entire Academy's history.
 

Kongroo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
2,948
Ottawa, Ontario, CA
Ferdinand and Boss Baby (!!!) getting nominations is the most insulting thing that could have happened in that category. It's the equivalent of a Transformers movie being nominated for Best Picture. It's so obvious that the Academy doesn't give a fuck about animation.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
Less terrible than expected. At least Breadwinner and Loving Vincent got recognition.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,369
Kitchener, ON
Ferdinand and Boss Baby (!!!) getting nominations is the most insulting thing that could have happened in that category. It's the equivalent of a Transformers movie being nominated for Best Picture. It's so obvious that the Academy doesn't give a fuck about animation.
This is why we have the Annie Awards. Everyone in the industry considers the Oscar to be a joke. Try not to lose sleep over it because some over-the-hill, white men don't want to lower themselves to watching cartoons because they feel they're beneath them.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,987
Somewhere.
Lol, pretty much expected. Annie Awards is where it is at.

I want to catch up on some shorts. Lou is fine, and Dear Basketball is really good.
 

Strider_Blaze

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,981
Lancaster, CA
I thought I was kidding, but The Boss Baby (and Ferdinand) actually got nominated for an Oscar.

tenor.gif


The rest Coco, Loving Vincent and The Breadwinner. There you have it, your Obligatory Walt Disney Award nominees.

Lego Batman got snubbed and Captain Underpants and all the other independent animated films too.

At least the Emoji Movie didn't.

Jeez this is stupid to see. What a joke, Academies!

And no doubt Coco will win. Will have to start checking out the Annie Awards from this day forth.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
People lamenting the fact that the most films made by the most talented and well funded studios consistently win the best of award is always perplexing to me.

You may have a point if these academy members did their due diligence. It would be an incredibly subjective point, but a point nonetheless.

But that's not why they're winning. It says in the very article that animation in general isn't taken seriously by many members, and so they default to what's the most visible with their kids, not what is actually the best movie. Or do you actually think that this is an appropriate and professional response to what their job entails?:

In 2015, one member of the sound branch of the Academy memorably expressed open disdain for "these two obscure freakin' Chinese fuckin' things that nobody ever freakin' saw." The reference, it turns out, was to the Japanese Princess Kaguya and the Irish Song of the Sea.

But even beyond that, there's really no logical reason why these companies that can throw around big marketing campaigns should have a monopoly on awards. NO other medium gets shafted the way animation does when it comes to big award shows. I see your points about budget in the thread and I just don't see how it's relevant. Why can a live action movie with a budget in the single millions beat something a hundred times more expensive? Why can Walking Dead and Journey sweep the GOTY awards in 2012 when they were comparatively indie endeavors? Hell, why did a free visual novel made by a single person become one of the most prominent games of 2017 to the point of getting GOTY nominations in big outlets?

But no, you're going to tell me that fucking Boss Baby is a more important and higher quality film than Your Name or Silent Voice? This isn't about quality. It was never about quality. It's about whatever the people with the money to advertise and directly target the academy member's kids can put out. The academy members aren't even watching the films they're supposed to be voting on. These aren't things that you as an animator should be happy about unless you don't think your preferred medium should have variety.