VR and the 'It's not for me' contradiction

[Prine]

Tried it, high end on a vive. Its not for me, i got severe motion sickness too. Put me out for the entire day. I also dont like the feeling of being cut off from my surrounding, its uncomfortable and i will not allow any device to hijack my sense of equilibrium.

 

[BennyWhatever]

OP, how do we know your logic is sound? Is there a peer reviewed journal article about it? Have you written a thesis on this topic?

 

[It’s Time To Go]

This is a very Strange hill to die on OP. People can like or dislike whatever video Game stuff hardware or games they want and it's not my business to tell them they're 'logically wrong'

 

[DarthBuzzard]

How does "logic" behind an "opinion " which is completely subjective fall apart?

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Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

 

[Deleted member 49179]

This just reminds me of a mate of mine that was trying to get me to read a bunch of books written by people who I, to be frank, thought were total idiots. He'd read and really enjoyed them, and with the kind of person I am he swore that if I gave them a shot, I'd really dig them. I hadn't tried reading any, so it's not like my opinion was based on anything, right?

What got him to understand why I wouldn't was actually really simple: why the hell would I spend my time doing something I don't think I'd enjoy when I could instead be doing something out of the endless pile of things I think I would enjoy but haven't gotten around to yet?

There's so much media in the world, and there's so many game series I haven't even touched yet that I'm sure I'd love if I just found the time. But between my job and managing my mental health, my free time has become very particular. If I'm not using it we'll, I get stressed out, and I know that's dumb, but knowing that doesn't stop me being stressed. I want to do things I enjoy, and neither VR nor my mates favourite self-help books are particularly appealing to me. I just can't see any reason why I would try them instead of finally playing a Resident Evil game, or trying to put together a proper D&D campaign, or getting back into reading Marvel comics, or learning some more Chopin pieces on the piano.

There's not enough time, not mental endurance, for anyone to try everything. We have to pick and choose what we do, and getting all judgy like this just comes across as needlessly shitty. We already live in a world where companies are trying to monopolise our free tome, we shouldn't be doing it to each other too.

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Great post!

 

[piratethingy]

Man OP, it's impressive how you managed to phrase this so that your totally correct points are vehemently shouted down because of your tone. I agree with most of what you said and even I want to argue with you.

 

[SayWord]

I am not one for preaching things I enjoy on others but I do find it strange that people who love gaming aren't interested in a new method to play said games.

Personally as someone who enjoys gaming as their main hobby, having new exciting ways to partake in my favorite thing is extremely exciting.

I view my love for food and games as a similar concept. I want to try everything and in anyway possible! heh

 

[The Devil]

Or you know, you could respect peoples opinion on certain products. Taking this a little to the heart OP.

 

[Yasumi]

I was thoroughly unimpressed, especially for the price of a new console. This thread is hella insecure.

 

[Melpomene]

when it takes thousands of hours to experience a diverse range of things in that medium.

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Is this implying that one can't form a general opinion about a medium without experiencing thousands of hours of that medium? No one has that kind of time, and no one should have to put that much effort into attempting to force themselves to like something. If someone says they don't like playing video games, I don't expect them to try several examples of every genre of video game before I consider their opinion sensible.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Why would I pay out the ass for these inferior versions of VR though? I can just wait another 10 years for the technology to have a good wireless headset with minimal setup rather than pay now for versions with annoying setup that won't live up to my lofty expectations for what VR could be. It isn't worth the cost for me at this time.

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No one is saying buy VR now, or even try VR now. You can wait for 10 years if you want, but when people start bringing up fictional technology that isn't anything like real world technology (yet with a clear interest in the concept of VR), it strikes me as strange because that comment implies that they wouldn't even be interested 10 or 20 years from now, despite there still being this core interest in it. Now, if they literally physically cannot use it, fair dues.

 

[Ambient80]

Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

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I--...

I need that Nathan Fillion gif cause wtf did I just read

 

[Starlatine]

I am not one for preaching things I enjoy on others but I do find it strange that people who love gaming aren't interested in a new method to play said games.

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A thing being new doesnt necessarily makes it better or even "good"

I also love food but don't feel compelled to try everything in existance just because. That's probably just you.

 

[Cth]

Agree with most of what you say but I still think you bring dismissive of those of us with motion sickness issues sours me to what you say.

You're doing what you accuse others of.. being dismissive. I've been following VR since the early 90s and was going to enroll at Chapel Hill just to get a chance at learning more about VR.

I was hesitant to sink a lot into not knowing if motion sickness would set in.. but someone brought their Rift to work and I was alright.

That being said the PSVR gives me motion sickness half the time and the games cost too much and vary widely on value. I think I bought 20-30 things for it and largely, for me, it's a fun thing for experiences but gaming is hit or miss. And no, I didn't like Astrobot.

Long story short, please lose the motion sickness truther angle when you keep making these threads. It's insulting and frustrates those of us who do experience it and spent a lot of cash on something we can't fully enjoy.

 

[Odeko]

VR taught me how important the senses of touch, acceleration, and proprioception are to feeling oriented since the second I put on a headset in a first person game I get claustrophobic.

 

[sleepnaught]

Love VR, but not so much the games. HL: Alyx can't come soon enough.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Is this implying that one can't form a general opinion about a medium without experiencing thousands of hours of that medium? No one has that kind of time, and no one should have to put that much effort into attempting to force themselves to like something. If someone says they don't like playing video games, I don't expect them to try several examples of every genre of video game before I consider their opinion sensible.

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That was a pretty extreme example, but you can still gather some diverse thoughts by trying different areas out over the course of a few days. Someone might try one or two FPS games for example, a genre that they might not even like, and think that is what VR is all about, and therefore it can't be for them.

 

[Ashok]

VR isn't for me same as how other gimmicky devices such as tablets, smart phones, the Internet, game consoles, and computers just aren't for me.

Just kidding, VR is clearly the future and regardless of idiotic forum posts, it's obvious that VR and AR will the next huge disruptive technologies. I've owned the HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, PSVR, Valve Index, and just purchased an Oculus Quest. VR has truly reached the revolutionary heights that people only dreamed of back in the 1990s and I feel like we've finally made it to the future.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

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But you're arguing two different logistical perspectives lol.

VR SUCKS or is great is a subjective opinion
A VR headset costing *insert fixed price * is a statistical fact

 

[Wrighteous86]

I think the vast majority of resistance to VR is that a.) it's the price of a console or PC ON TOP of the price of a console or PC, b.)there's not as much content to justify that price as there is on consoles/PCs, and c.)the majority of experiences in VR are just that: "experiences" (ie minigames, arcade games, etc as opposed to AAA gaming or long-term ongoing games).

 

[EllipsisBreak]

Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

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This right here is the perfect example of what's wrong with this thread. Your actual main point is valid and fair, but you're doing a terrible job of making a case for it, and almost nothing you've actually said has been productive. Do you really think bringing up flat earthers is going to help your case in any way?

 

[Deleted member 49179]

Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

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Comparing the interests of a person to scientific facts is really extreme, don't you think?

If you really want to go down that road, BennyWhatever says it well:

OP, how do we know your logic is sound? Is there a peer reviewed journal article about it? Have you written a thesis on this topic?

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[The Riot Inside]

I get what you are trying to say but it is one hell of an investment to find out if VR is actually for you. I bought a rift S only to find out that, like the psvr, it doesn't sit on my head right. I'll still use it, but I can only do so for 15 or 20 minutes at a time, limiting my game options.

 

[arbitrary function]

Evangelism is right. A lot of people on this forum are so personally and emotionally invested in VR that critical voices are disqualified with strong affect. I recall similar reactions regarding 3D televisions on the old forum.

 

[Crayon]

Really, sometimes VR seems like evangelism.

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In this case, it is. That goes on all the time though. And at least it's heartfelt. Not like them turfing and social marketing that's all over these days.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Your OP seems to completely ignore the issue of motion sickness, which is a big deal for a lot of people and is a huge barrier to enjoying a lot of VR experiences.

I own a Quest and I enjoy it (largely for games like Superhot and Beat Saber that don't require any walking) but there's still a bunch of games I can't play without feeling extremely ill. I tried playing 20 minutes of Sairento and I can't remember the last time I felt so queasy. I'd love to try Boneworks, but from what I've seen and heard of it I am like 99% sure it would make me throw up. And that sucks, quite frankly! Even just regular locomotion in less intense games like Rec Room or The Under can make me nauseous after a short period of time.

It's been 8 years since the Oculus DK1 and developers still haven't found a reliable, non-clunky (ie teleporting) solution to motion sickness. And that's a huge, huge issue. And yes, I know "VR legs" is a thing, but from what I can tell there isn't really an exact science to it, and some people adapt and others don't.

I'm gonna try my best to play Half Life Alyx, but there's a chance that I won't be able to enjoy it at all due to my susceptibility to motion sickness. And that's really frustrating.

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I actually specifically talked about motion sickness in the OP and why it's generally not an issue in most scenarios. Sickness, being mostly a vestibular mismatch, means that the vast majority can outright avoid it by playing games that don't cause this mismatch. What you're left with is potential for sickness via low framerates or an incorrect IPD, which are setup/game faults. There is one other thing though, latency. Most people cannot perceive latency at 20ms, but for the few that can, that can cause sickness; it's just really rare and becomes rarer as framerates rise above 90 FPS.

 

[F34R]

One of my kids likes it, the other kids motion sick quite easily with it. My wife can't use it, it causes migraines. My mom, motion sick. I can fly xplane, dcs world, and play fps, pinball, and others, but racing games cause issues with vertigo for me.

 

[L Thammy]

How come no one's thought of making OP's post a sticky so that everyone gets to know that they are incorrect about VR.

 

[Lua]

Entertainment purchase choices don't have to be logical. If you are interested you buy it and if you think you aren't you don't. It doesn't matter if you gave it the thought or not, its not a vital part of life.

 

[Invisible Cities]

My friends, have you heard the good news about our lord and savior, VR?

 

[srtrestre]

Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

Click to shrink...

 

[Bjones]

I have a Vive and ps vr. Both in box in a closet. It's just not up to the classic experience on a lot of levels to be a serious contender at this point imo.
Weight is a big problem as well as mobility.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I'm not spending hundreds of dollars on technology that makes me ill and doesn't improve the kinds of games I enjoy playing in the slightest.

 

[SpoonyBob]

People say this all the time. 'It's not for me', 'I'm not interested', 'It adds nothing for me', 'I physically can't use it'' (usually a lot harsher sounding) and in a lot of cases, it couldn't be further from the truth.

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Sorry OP, but I tried for about 2 weeks to give the PSVR an adequate shake. What I played of AstroBot was cool as hell, and the first time I turned around and saw the entire level sitting there behind me had me blown away. And it made me sick as hell. It makes me uncomfortable just remembering how the game felt and looked. After trying VR, I've actually gotten similar feelings of nausea from standard FPS which I'd never had a problem with. That's the end of it until I can guarantee it won't make my want to curl up into a miserable ball on my bed.

 

[Bigg]

I actually specifically talked about motion sickness in the OP and why it's generally not an issue in most scenarios. Sickness, being mostly a vestibular mismatch, means that the vast majority can outright avoid it by playing games that don't cause this mismatch. What you're left with is potential for sickness via low framerates or an incorrect IPD, which are setup/game faults. There is one other thing though, latency. Most people cannot perceive latency at 20ms, but for the few that can, that can cause sickness; it's just really rare and becomes rarer as framerates rise above 90 FPS.

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I had to re-read your OP because I honestly did not know that "vestibular mismatch" referred to motion sickness. So I apologize for that. But I still have issues with the OP.

From what I understand, you're saying the solution to playing games that cause motion sickness is to...don't play games that cause motion sickness?

That leaves out a lot of popular VR games. I saw the ones you mentioned in the OP, but what about Boneworks and Asgard's Wrath, two of the most high profile VR games of the past year? What about Half Life: Alyx, arguably the biggest VR release ever? A lot of people can't play those games due to motion sickness/vestibular mismatch. And that makes them a lot less interested in the platform. And I don't think "well, just play other games" cuts it as an argument.

 

[Dr Pears]

VR is not one size fits all. Nothing in entertainment is.

 

[chromatic9]

Still a big issue in how First person games are played so I don't see how you can dismiss that. Driving games would seem a lock for VR but it isn't the case yet.

I was pumped about VR but having tried it I decided it wasn't for me at this time. Perhaps when the FOV is better, Image quality and comfort are vastly improved I'll try again. Even with those things, I still love the big 4k TV and to be not shut off from my surroundings.

I said from day 1 that it will truck along quietly and slowly build up into something and this has been proved right, I didn't see it dying or being a huge deal.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

VR literally does not work for me. I have a lazy eye and absolutely no depth perception so vr is absolutely not for me. And before anyone suggests surgery to fix it, thats just cosmetic and doesnt restore depth perception

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I know many people who not only have/had lazy eye and no depth perception, but VR permanently fixed these issues for them in real life.

Have you actually tried VR?

 

[KayonXaikyre]

That was a pretty extreme example, but you can still gather some diverse thoughts by trying different areas out over the course of a few days. Someone might try one or two FPS games for example, a genre that they might not even like, and think that is what VR is all about, and therefore it can't be for them.

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I think the point you aren't getting is that they don't have to make it for them. People aren't obligated to find more reasons to buy into or like something that they try. Most things in life are based upon first impressions or limited impressions. If you went to a restaurant and tried a dish there and it was awful and you had bad service, are you supposed to go back a few more times and try different things just to make sure the place sucks? You could, but you don't have to because there are several other places to go to get your food. VR is competeing with other entertainment forms that have various price points, time, and value propositions to others. While maybe you feel that it's a shame more people don't put effort into enjoying the thing you do, maybe also consider they have no reason to (even if you think they would like more VR things based upon their preferences) and might be perfectly happy just enjoying the things they already know they like.

 

[Lua]

This site is so incredibly condescending sometimes.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

 

[Prine]

Someone can think the earth is flat. That is their opinion, but it's also one devoid of logic. Before anyone gets angry, that is a mere example to illustrate a point.

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No. How far one can go with VR involves many variables and so is an opinion, the earth being flat isnt.

If you concede some are sensitive to impulses and triggers, then you can accept VR trickery of our senses can lead to health related issues. IF thats so, you should be able to accept feeling ill or uncomfortable isnt in people's interest, and so conclude its not for them.

 

[Raijinto]

I don't like VR because as Jim Sterling so eloquently put it in his video on the subject it's "kinda snake oil".

In other words it's not for me.

 

[Blizz]

I'm really not interested in VR, nothing against it, the tech just doesn't interest me and your threads and posts about it reinforce that decision. People are allowed to like it or not, but stop trying to turn everyone and their mother around, you start sounding a lot like a missionary.

 

[Crayon]

Still a big issue in how First person games are played so I don't see how you can dismiss that. Driving games would seem a lock for VR but it isn't the case yet.

I was pumped about VR but having tried it I decided it wasn't for me at this time. Perhaps when the FOV is better, Image quality and comfort are vastly improved I'll try again. Even with those things, I still love the big 4k TV and to be not shut off from my surroundings.

I said from day 1 that it will truck along quietly and slowly build up into something and this has been proved right, I didn't see it dying or being a huge deal.

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Oh it's a lock for driving games already. I'm ruined on flat ones for life. Anything in a cockpit is vastly, vastly superior. Remember cockpits be they in a sports car or fighter jet are designed so that you can look around and track your target. That might be looking up as a enemy jet flies above you, or looking past your a pillar into a turn. There's No Going Back and if you are playing one of these games flat you're having an inferior experience, period.

 

[TitanicFall]

Tried it, high end on a vive. Its not for me, i got severe motion sickness too. Put me out for the entire day. I also dont like the feeling of being cut off from my surrounding, its uncomfortable and i will not allow any device to hijack my sense of equilibrium.

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I think your experience really depends on what games you're playing and it's not a fault of the VR platform. If you got sick playing a non-VR game, would you stop gaming on PC or console and say it's just not for you? Some of my favorite VR games are next to impossible to get motion sick with. Stuff like Astrobot and Superhot VR. As far as comfort goes, that's also depends on your head shape and what headset you have. You had a bad experience, but that doesn't mean you can't have a good one.

 

[inner-G]

I've tried PSVR out. and even played Virtuality in the 90s in the arcade.

It's just not compelling or interesting to me. It feels over-complicated in practice.

 

[cowbanana]

It's not for me. I've tried high-end PC VR several times and it's definitely interesting with some cool stuff going on. Yet, I simply don't feel drawn to it or the current experiences beyond trying them and going "hey, cool". It's not something I see myself spending a lot of time on. Fun for shorter "dives", but ultimately not lighting my world on fire...

 

[VN1X]

I'll never bother with VR because it doesn't have the kind of games that I like to play (Hades, Risk of Rain 2, Slay the Spire, Deep Rock Galactic, Warframe, Counter-Strike, etc).

 

[Brrandon]

I know many people who not only have/had lazy eye and no depth perception, but VR permanently fixed these issues for them in real life.

Have you actually tried VR?

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Yes, i have. And my lazy eye cannot just be fixed by wearing a headset. The eye is physically way too far off to the right. Ive been to one of the best optometrists in my state and he has said that since ive never had depth perception my whole life, that part of my brain never grew to how it was supposed to, and now theres pretty much no way to fix it. Im not too bothered by it, ive had it all my life after all lol