Vulture: Making of Red Dead Redemption 2 - Interview with Dan Houser

[Simo]

This is a really great feature that just went up on Vulture that digs into the making of the game with an interview with Dan Houser.
http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/the-making-of-rockstar-games-red-dead-redemption-2.html

Still reading it now but some choice bits of info:

• Game is around 65 hours long. Not sure if that's just the single story or all honor missions and strangers included.
• 2,200 days of motion capture was performed
• The script for the main story is nearly 2000 pages
• The script, including all additional dialog, would be "about 8 feet high" of printed and stacked together.
• 500,000 lines of dialog.
• 300,000 animations
• About 5 hours of content and missions were cut in the end
• Development began in 2010. Motion and Performance Capture began in 2013 with over 1,200 actors, 700 of which had lines.
• Each NPC had around 80 pages of dialog
• Music score began recording in 2015

 

[ASleepingMonkey]

Holy shit, the man, the myth, the legend.

 

[xxracerxx]

2,200 days of motion capture was performed

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Exhausting.

edit: You left out the best image:

 

[Deleted member 3700]

Nice.

 

[giancarlo123x]

Jesus fucking christ

 

[Simo]

About Leslie Benzies

On top of the everyday drama of game making, there's been some additional turmoil. Producer Leslie Benzies, who worked with Dan and Sam steering the Grand Theft Auto series since GTA III in 2001, took a sabbatical, was let go, and in 2016, sued Rockstar for $150 million in unpaid royalties. When I ask about it, Dan pauses for a moment, squints, and says, "Well, we've got an open court case with him. So I don't think it's appropriate to talk about that. But I will say the team has never worked better together than it's worked on this game."

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[Ultimadrago]

Thanks definitely going to read this. Excitement is rising as the release date nears!

 

[Askherserenity]

Oh boyyy

 

[Simo]

They're still doing mo-cap now but for Red Dead Online. Dan hopes online will be as robust as GTA online once it's found its footing.

Also Dan says if this one sells well, lol, then they would be up for doing another Red Dead since they have more stories to tell.

 

[metaltrain]

can we say the Housers are legends of the game industry yet, or do they still got ways to go?

 

[LAM09]

They went all out, it seems

 

[Gravity Insanity]

That's a big fucking game. Rockstar isn't messing around. So close to release.

 

[metaltrain]

They went all out, it seems

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That's a big fucking game. Rockstar isn't messing around. So close to release.

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"In August, I receive an email from Sam Houser, Rockstar Games' president, who writes, "We've poured everything we have into [RDR2]. We have really pushed ourselves as hard as we can." In the past, Dan Houser, Rockstar's vice-president for creative, has spoken emotionally about how hard he and the company's teams — ten across the globe, from California to India — work. "That was sh*t," he says. "This was the hardest."

 

[bricewgilbert]

Dan says for research he consumed "hundreds" of books and films, "but nothing contemporary. I don't want to be accused of stealing ideas." He mentions Dickens, Henry James, Keats, Émile Zola, and "Arthur Conan Doyle, who just has great sections about America, you know, like a brilliant thing about union disputes in Pennsylvania and a brilliant thing about Mormons in Utah.

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The polishing, rewrites, and reedits Rockstar does are immense. "We were working 100-hour weeks" several times in 2018, Dan says. The finished game includes 300,000 animations, 500,000 lines of dialogue, and many more lines of code. Even for each RDR2 trailer and TV commercial, "we probably made 70 versions, but the editors may make several hundred. Sam and I will both make both make lots of suggestions, as will other members of the team."

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This is where you would ask him the tough questions. This is a sequel to THE game that is probably the most infamous case of labor issues, instead you get the following lame bit.

Rockstar has been criticized for the lack of empowered women in its games. Dan believes that won't be an issue in RDR2, which features, among others, "this old intellectual called Lillian Powell, who's come back to the South from New York, who's almost like a Dorothy Parker character. There are also ones who are weak and ones who are weak and become strong and ones who think they're strong but are not. And that goes for men, too." The burgeoning women's suffrage movement also figures in the story. "It was a time when women were beginning to question [their roles], and the Wild West was an area where people could invent themselves for the first time; many of the people who were inventing themselves were women," says Dan. "They were no longer constrained by society, because there was no society."

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They really do think I am 13 years old.

 

[ASleepingMonkey]

can we say the Housers are legends of the game industry yet, or do they still got ways to go?

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There's controversy surrounding Rockstar's work ethic on employees. Crunch is deadly, as this piece notes they had multiple 100 hours work weeks in 2018 alone.

Yeah, they're delivering the best of the best but there's a major cost on the human side. Hope they all get some good vacation time after they get RDR Online out or something.

 

[metaltrain]

There's controversy surrounding Rockstar's work ethic on employees. Crunch is deadly, as this piece notes they had multiple 100 hours work weeks in 2018 alone.

Yeah, they're delivering the best of the best but there's a major cost on the human side. Hope they all get some good vacation time after they get RDR Online out or something.

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thats true for a vast majority of game companies, especially in crunch time

 

[Richietto]

Its so close now...

 

[Simo]

Damn, even the actors for NPCs would have 80 page scripts each, according to Lazlow.

 

[Ultimadrago]

For those in the know: Is The Vulture pretty prestigious? Must be to get this exclusive.

 

[metaltrain]

Dan says for research he consumed "hundreds" of books and films, "but nothing contemporary. I don't want to be accused of stealing ideas." He mentions Dickens, Henry James, Keats, Émile Zola, and "Arthur Conan Doyle, who just has great sections about America, you know, like a brilliant thing about union disputes in Pennsylvania and a brilliant thing about Mormons in Utah.

The polishing, rewrites, and reedits Rockstar does are immense. "We were working 100-hour weeks" several times in 2018, Dan says. The finished game includes 300,000 animations, 500,000 lines of dialogue, and many more lines of code. Even for each RDR2 trailer and TV commercial, "we probably made 70 versions, but the editors may make several hundred. Sam and I will both make both make lots of suggestions, as will other members of the team."

This is where you would ask him the tough questions. This is a sequel to THE game that is probably the most infamous case of labor issues, instead you get this lame bit. They really do think I am 13 years old.


Rockstar has been criticized for the lack of empowered women in its games. Dan believes that won't be an issue in RDR2, which features, among others, "this old intellectual called Lillian Powell, who's come back to the South from New York, who's almost like a Dorothy Parker character. There are also ones who are weak and ones who are weak and become strong and ones who think they're strong but are not. And that goes for men, too." The burgeoning women's suffrage movement also figures in the story. "It was a time when women were beginning to question [their roles], and the Wild West was an area where people could invent themselves for the first time; many of the people who were inventing themselves were women," says Dan. "They were no longer constrained by society, because there was no society."

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do you literally think this is a problem that is only Rockstar's

https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577

 

[Nintendo]

HOLY SHIT!

 

[smart patrol]

Great article. This game is going to be something special.

 

[ASleepingMonkey]

We pass a cat, then another, Rockstar's official mousers, before stopping inside the studio where many of the game's 700 voice actors have recorded lines for Red Dead Redemption 2.

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They have fucking cats roaming in their office, I'd kill for an office that has cats.

thats true for a vast majority of game companies, especially in crunch time

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Certainly but just the stories about Rockstar in particular have always sounded really grueling, just do some digging on the first Redemption. It got bad. It's a hard problem to solve, though. It took seven years to make this thing, imagine if they were doing 8 hour work days, this thing would never come out.

 

[The Silver]

I have no idea how much usually gets cut in these mammoth AAA games but 5 hours seemed small to me for a game this size.

 

[Dr Doom]

Didn't call the Benz :(

 

[Certinfy]

A month ago my hype was pretty low, after reading all of this it's almost at it's peak. Rockstar have clearly pulled it off once again.

 

[CielTynave]

So he managed to resist THE DARKNESS without The Benz.

 

[Nakenorm]

Main Campaign is around 65 hours long

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Uuuugh... I don't have time for that!
Looks absolutely fantastic thought but will probably wait and pick it up sometime later next year.

 

[Deleted member 3925]

Jesus Christ.

 

[jon bones]

i haven't followed the game, never played the first two and i'm not crazy about GTA but this last month has made this sound very interesting.

i wonder for all it's wealth of content if it will actually hook me in, and for how long.

 

[metaltrain]

I feel like Rockstar is incapable of making a small game or minimalist game

lol

 

[Simo]

Heh Graham Greene has a role in the game.

You might know him from Dances With Wolves, Maverick and Longmire.

 

[SolidSnakex]

For those in the know: Is The Vulture pretty prestigious? Must be to get this exclusive.

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They're a pretty big pop culture site. Dan tends to only give a couple interviews after they complete a game. With GTAV I think he only gave three to websites. Two were to the New York Times and The Guardian and the other was to Polygon. So he definitely tends to lean more toward doing interviews with sites that are more than just about gaming.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

I feel like Rockstar is incapable of making a small game or minimalist game

lol

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The sequel is still coming, one day.....

 

[metaltrain]

the 65 hours is probably both main missions and side missions

not just main missions

 

[Ultimadrago]

They're a pretty big pop culture site. Dan tends to only give a couple interviews after they complete a game. With GTAV I think he only gave three to websites. Two were to the New York Times and The Guardian and the other was to Polygon. So he definitely tends to lean more toward doing interviews with sites that are more than just about gaming.

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Cool, thanks!

 

[metaltrain]

"As winter becomes spring and you move around on your horse, you take time to check out the panoramas the way you would stop at observation points in Sequoia National Park or the Grand Canyon. The vistas are hyperreal, inspired by luminous paintings like those by Albert Bierstadt of the Hudson River school. RDR2's art director Rob Nelson says the team wanted the game world to respond to the story, so much so that "we were obsessed with it feeling natural or organic in every respect. Everywhere you look, you see something that is drawing you toward it."

Everything feels real: the starry, unpolluted night, the cicadas, the 360-degree buzz of a fly around your head. You hear horse hooves clip-clopping nearby. Should you fight? Should you hide? You think about a woman you passed in your gang's camp who asked you what you thought about local superstitions. You imagine what her life must have been like before she joined the gang. Game critics always call this "being immersed," but "immersed" almost doesn't do it justice. This world of Red Dead Redemption 2 feels so alive and real, you feel projected into it and then possessed by it. After a few hours, you can almost feel the ego diminution, the sense of "merging with nature or the universe" that Michael Pollan describes in How to Change Your Mind. (And at $60 for a copy, Red Dead Redemption 2 is cheaper than psychedelic drugs.)"


well God of War, you had a good run as front runner for GOTY

but sorry buddy

 

[Kalnet]

This is seriously quite a good read, and with an article last year(or early this year. Forgot when.) where they talked about how they dedicated to re-writing the A.I system for 6 years just for RDR2 was staggering. I think the india branch was the one who did the AI programming exclusively if I'm not mistaken.

It's also one week and a half away from now till this game comes out. I guess we'll be getting a one minute launch trailer soon like GTAV did previously.

 

[bricewgilbert]

do you literally think this is a problem that is only Rockstar's

https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577

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uhhhh no? Why the fuck would I? What are you suggsting? Not ask these questions of developers who are known to have issues unless you can talk to every single developer ever? I mean you should try and ask every developer. That should at least be in your back pocket as a journalist. I understand the legit reasons why you wouldn't (they might cut off access), but some of interviews just beg the question more than others.

 

[BoxManLocke]

This game sounds insane.

All the "bigger" claims get so much more interesting and tangible when you know the story, character and world will be of such quality.

 

[metaltrain]

"The soundtrack helps, too. You hear sounds of nature, long ambient notes in the wilderness, or the Irish-influenced strain of an antique banjo from a nearby campfire. "We have 192 interactive mission scores, and we thought about the music constantly from the time we brought in [composer] Woody Jackson in 2015," says Ivan Pavlovich, Rockstar's music supervisor. "Sam was always asking early on, 'What's the feel [of the game]?' " The feels are many: Pavlovich says players can hear entire concerts at town vaudeville shows, as well as more atmospheric music when they explore the open world and encounter some 200 animal species, each of which makes its own sound."

 

[Simo]

Man, they mention the 70 or 80 passes they did for the trailers and I'm here like, "Hey guys I would of taken just a handful you know...instead of getting 3 story ones and then finally a gameplay one in August 2018!" lol

 

[metaltrain]

it seems like we literally are going to be talking about open worlds in the future using

a Pre- Red Dead Redemption 2 category and a Post-Red Dead Redemption 2 category

 

[Juan29.Zapata]

do you literally think this is a problem that is only Rockstar's

https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577

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Are you really doing a whataboutism here? Really now.

There's controversy surrounding Rockstar's work ethic on employees. Crunch is deadly, as this piece notes they had multiple 100 hours work weeks in 2018 alone.

Yeah, they're delivering the best of the best but there's a major cost on the human side. Hope they all get some good vacation time after they get RDR Online out or something.

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Oh they are, because just like after RDR, lots of people are getting fired. (Might not happen, but it's clear that Rockstar, like many publishers, don't give a shit)

 

[Vern]

"As winter becomes spring and you move around on your horse, you take time to check out the panoramas the way you would stop at observation points in Sequoia National Park or the Grand Canyon. The vistas are hyperreal, inspired by luminous paintings like those by Albert Bierstadt of the Hudson River school. RDR2's art director Rob Nelson says the team wanted the game world to respond to the story, so much so that "we were obsessed with it feeling natural or organic in every respect. Everywhere you look, you see something that is drawing you toward it."

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We've got a cabin that's been in our family for 100 years, in sequoia national park... I've got heaps of photos from the old days of great grandpa and my grandma (as a toddler) up there in the woods... and spent so much of my own youth up there in those forests. Summers wandering the back country, sleeping under giant redwoods and a million stars...

I haven't been really keeping track of this game as I didn't like Red Dead Redemption at all, though I did love Red Dead Revolver... but this quote more than piques my interest. It might finally be time to jump into "next gen" and get a ps4 or xbox1. This game sounds awesome.

 

[metaltrain]

Are you really doing a whataboutism here? Really now.



Oh they are, because just like after RDR, lots of people are getting fired. (Might not happen, but it's clear that Rockstar, like many publishers, don't give a shit)

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that article is from 2010

 

[Juan29.Zapata]

that article is from 2010

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So? Might happen here as well. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[metaltrain]

It took 2200 days to mo-cap Red Dead Redemption 2.

That's six years.

 

[gcwy]

Can't believe I'll be playing the GOTG in less than 2 weeks.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Graham Greene is awesome.