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Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
Sorry man. Those "False Report" fines and charges that Police have on the books? Yeah, we'll get hit with those in that situation rather than getting a free walk like white people do.

Not only that, it would turn into a real personal interrogation by police really quickly as they "get to the bottom of the reason why we called"

Yeah that's what I was sort of implying with the second part. Many people treating it like it's a nothing issue and fine to do yet if the shoe was on the other foot people would be going mental and the police would be taking action against the callers.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,298
New York
Yeah that's what I was sort of implying with the second part. Many people treating it like it's a nothing issue and fine to do yet if the shoe was on the other foot people would be going mental and the police would be taking action against the callers.

Well, the trick is to know who the real criminals are... (wink)
 

Deleted member 5359

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Oct 25, 2017
11,326
whiteafraid.jpg
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,026
Dude wrote a medium piece


somethings stick out
My father was murdered outside his home by a trespasser who he confronted alone. For my child's safety, my safety and that of the building, I felt it was necessary to get help in this situation

So you confront some random dude with your child crying byside you...."I feared my life" is racist draw 4

As I learned later, Wesly was a friend of a guest of a resident in the building. The building resident was not expecting Wesly.
See that low key justification....
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,557
Hmm I think his response seems reasonable enough and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I'm curious to see if anything else suspect about this guy arises.
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns surrounding racial profiling over a series of posts in this thread
That's a condo building with $1+ million units. People who live there literally own the place. The dad has a right to not let someone tailgate into the building and to ask the tailgater to identify himself or leave. If the tailgater doesn't want to leave nor identify himself, calling 911 is not that outlandish a response.
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445

Yes, it's a condo building, and yes that guy spent approximately $1.5 million for his unit. He owns it.

This isn't a hotel lobby. No way am I letting a random of any shape, size, or color tailgate me into a secure building that contains my $1.5 mil apartment. And if you don't want to leave or be cooperative, I will absolutely call 911 if there isn't a concierge around. Especially in SF.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
One thing most people don't realize is the man filming isn't a resident of that apartment building. Thus he doesn't have the right to walk in and wait.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
Yes, it's a condo building, and yes that guy spent approximately $1.5 million for his unit. He owns it.

This isn't a hotel lobby. No way am I letting a random of any shape, size, or color tailgate me into a secure building that contains my $1.5 mil apartment. And if you don't want to leave or be cooperative, I will absolutely call 911 if there isn't a concierge around. Especially in SF.
He owns his own unit, not the public space. Stop acting like this was a door to his living room.
 
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▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,429
Chicago
If other people come out and claim they've been stopped by Cukor before then I might believe it. Might. The Medium piece isn't bad, but I cannot imagine that he did not know this was a thing, because, ironically, he ended up being a part of it. He could have handled this a lot better.

I still disagree with the posters here basically perpetuating classism at its finest. By saying you'd stop anyone you are still discounting the fact that he is Black and that tends to alarm some people. At the end of the day, what you put on this forum is still nothing but words. I need more instances of this happening to other people for me to give y'all the ok on that.

While I don't think Wesley being Black makes him above policies, I do think posters on here constantly overlook and fail to understand the psyche of a Black American. Let alone a Black man as we are seen as more physically threatening.
 

Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
Dude wrote a medium piece


somethings stick out


So you confront some random dude with your child crying byside you...."I feared my life" is racist draw 4


See that low key justification....
"My father was murdered outside his home by a trespasser who he confronted alone"

This just makes him look even more guilty of being racist given his actual behavior caught on camera.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,748
I want to see proof of other people being stopped by Cukor. Surely such an expensive building has cameras yeah?

This is a crazy ask. "I want you to scour security footage to show him letting in a white dude he doesn't know." As if this somehow justifies the guy with the camera trespassing - which it is.

Personally, I think calling the cops is excessive here, but I've also never had somebody give me a hard time when I insisted they get buzzed in. Happens all the time where I live and people have never been obnoxious about it or filmed a neighbor and accused them of being racist.
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445
I want to see proof of other people being stopped by Cukor. Surely such an expensive building has cameras yeah?

That's fair, particularly because that's what he claims. That's completely independent of whether or not Michel was right in this specific instance to stand his ground inside a space specifically for condo owners.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
I 100% would have stopped dude from just walking in while I was leaving. The difference is that instead of demanding information like a fucking cop, I would have explained my situation like a human and that I will get in trouble for letting him walk in there. Make no mistake though, my dude was not staying in there when I left.
This is it. Don't treat someone like a criminal, treat them like a human being that you have no choice but to inconvenience.

"appears to be African American"

a) dude knew this all looked racist and felt uncomfortable straight up saying the guy was black
b) just say black... it's ok...
 

Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
"This is not uncommon in San Francisco and the bad actors are all different colors."

Surprised he's didn't go the "I don't see color" "or they could be black or brown or blue or green" route.
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445
Don't treat someone like a criminal, treat them like a human being that you have no choice but to inconvenience.

He was literally trespassing at that time. It's a two-way street; Wesly should've diffused the situation and simply said who he was waiting for or just waited outside or anywhere where a key fob isn't required for access. Instead, he took offense and started recording.

This is very different from past stories where white people barred black people from entering their own buildings. It looks like those situations, but is completely different.
 

Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
He was literally trespassing at that time. It's a two-way street; Wesly should've diffused the situation and simply said who he was waiting for or just waited outside or anywhere where a key fob isn't required for access. Instead, he took offense and started recording.

This is very different from past stories where white people barred black people from entering their own buildings. It looks like those situations, but is completely different.
Yeah, completely different. The only mild commonality, trivial at best I'd say, is that a white person called the cops on a black man in situations where no one would normally call the cops on anyone of any other race (well, maybe brown people). The important point is that we need to latch onto some instance of perceived wrongdoing (using coupons that may or may not be fraudulent, entering a building that said may or may not live in - regardless of whether you have any sort of authority to request people's identification) and focus on that specifically, in order to not acknowledge the overt racism in such situations.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
28,429
Chicago
This is a crazy ask. "I want you to scour security footage to show him letting in a white dude he doesn't know." As if this somehow justifies the guy with the camera trespassing - which it is.

Personally, I think calling the cops is excessive here, but I've also never had somebody give me a hard time when I insisted they get buzzed in. Happens all the time where I live and people have never been obnoxious about it or filmed a neighbor and accused them of being racist.

After watching video I don't care what you think is a crazy ask to be quite frank.

Patrice O'Neal was absolutely right when he said racism isn't something you can actually prove.

You can ask an entire room of white people to raise their hands if racism is real. They will raise their hands, but ask them to do the same if they themselves are racist and not a single hand will go up. You have been defending Cukor all thread so I don't really care what you claim you would've done. Or anyone else saying the same. Maybe it's true maybe it's not. What we have here is Cukor's shitty response to this man and people handwaving per usual. Surprised some of you didn't defend the lady for calling the cops on the lemonade girl for the lack of a permit.
 

Jmanunknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
853
He was literally trespassing at that time. It's a two-way street; Wesly should've diffused the situation and simply said who he was waiting for or just waited outside or anywhere where a key fob isn't required for access. Instead, he took offense and started recording.

This is very different from past stories where white people barred black people from entering their own buildings. It looks like those situations, but is completely different.

It is not different its the usual white person trying to uphold their alleged authority over a black person story by calling the police. You may want it to be different but it is not. You want to know the most messed up part about the situation his young child knew what the hell was up and the dude just had to "assert his authority" by calling the cops. Also Christopher Cukor is a straight up fool he said what happened to his father molded his perspective well what happened to his father in Cukor's own words
My father was murdered outside his home by a trespasser who he confronted alone
. So he does the very same thing that got his father killed on top of that he put his kid in the situation as well.
 
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Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,467
Miami
That's a condo building with $1+ million units. People who live there literally own the place. The dad has a right to not let someone tailgate into the building and to ask the tailgater to identify himself or leave. If the tailgater doesn't want to leave nor identify himself, calling 911 is not that outlandish a response.
I own a condo and I don't own the place, I own a percentage of the place. The lobby is a common area that's the responsibility of the condo association, that I contribute funds to, to maintain. I don't have the right to accost people I see there that I don't know.

But please, continue to explain what the dollar threshold is for racial profiling.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
28,429
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That's fair, particularly because that's what he claims. That's completely independent of whether or not Michel was right in this specific instance to stand his ground inside a space specifically for condo owners.

Wesley could have gone about it better as well and defused it. Based off the video though, he felt immediately judged and seen as a threat. Imagine being an innocuous Black dude but immediately greeted with this kind of behavior going to fancy condos...

Some black people get tired of having to make other people feel comfortable around them all the time. It's an unfortunate situation, but having a kid on the scene, Cukor should've went about it much better than he did. You can have concerns about the buildings security without being a dickhole.

Even if he did stop a white man or old white women as stated in this thread. The dynamic would've been completely different. No one seems to want to acknowledge this and now its turned into "Not Condo Building Vigilantes The Thread."
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445
Yeah, completely different. The only mild commonality, trivial at best I'd say, is that a white person called the cops on a black man in situations where no one would normally call the cops on anyone of any other race (well, maybe brown people). The important point is that we need to latch onto some instance of perceived wrongdoing (using coupons that may or may not be fraudulent, entering a building that said may or may not live in - regardless of whether you have any sort of authority to request people's identification) and focus on that specifically, in order to not acknowledge the overt racism in such situations.

I'm not so sure that only a black man gets the 911 call here. Wesly refuses to give any information, tells the condo owner to go away, and stands his ground in a secure area. That's probably going to escalate the situation regardless of what he looks like.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,748
After watching video I don't care what you think is a crazy ask to be quite frank.

Patrice O'Neal was absolutely right when he said racism isn't something you can actually prove.

You can ask an entire room of white people to raise their hands if racism is real. They will raise their hands, but ask them to do the same if they themselves are racist and not a single hand will go up. You have been defending Cukor all thread so I don't really care what you claim you would've done. Or anyone else saying the same. Maybe it's true maybe it's not. What we have here is Cukor's shitty response to this man and people handwaving per usual. Surprised some of you didn't defend the lady for calling the cops on the lemonade girl for the lack of a permit.

I criticized Cukor in the very post you quoted. I said calling the cops was excessive - which means I think he was wrong to do it.
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445
I own a condo and I don't own the place, I own a percentage of the place. The lobby is a common area that's the responsibility of the condo association, that I contribute funds to, to maintain. I don't have the right to accost people I see there that I don't know.

But please, continue to explain what the dollar threshold is for racial profiling.

You can't accost random people already there, and I don't understand your point. That has nothing to do with this situation.

You're responsible for making sure that you're not letting random unauthorized people enter the private areas of the premises piggybacking off of your credentials. At best, you're a bad neighbor. At worst, you're breaching your HOA's rules and regulations. You may want to check on that.
 

Deleted member 4452

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Oct 25, 2017
2,377
I'm not so sure that only a black man gets the 911 call here. Wesly refuses to give any information, tells the condo owner to go away, and stands his ground in a secure area. That's probably going to escalate the situation regardless of what he looks like.
Yes, why didn't the black guy give all his info to this white guy exerting his authority (authority that he doesn't have)? If Cukor was genuinely concerned about the trespassing or felt threatened in any way, he wouldn't have made the 911 call smuggly in Wesley's face and have a direct confrontation in his kid's presence. This is just him flexing his white privilege 'yeah, I'm calling the cops on you, what are you going to do about it?' muscles.

It's never racism. There's always an out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
He was literally trespassing at that time. It's a two-way street; Wesly should've diffused the situation and simply said who he was waiting for or just waited outside or anywhere where a key fob isn't required for access. Instead, he took offense and started recording.

This is very different from past stories where white people barred black people from entering their own buildings. It looks like those situations, but is completely different.
What exactly are you disagreeing with here? You feel we should treat people like criminals and call the cops if they're trying to tailgate? Is that seriously a proportionate response in your mind?

I guess if you have an adversarial attitude toward strangers that might be how you approach situations like this. Sucks.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
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Yes, why didn't the black guy give all his info to this white guy exerting his authority (authority that he doesn't have)? If Cukor was genuinely concerned about the trespassing or felt threatened in any way, he wouldn't have made the 911 call smuggly in Wesley's face and have a direct confrontation in his kid's presence. This is just him flexing his white privilege 'yeah, I'm calling the cops on you, what are you going to do about it?' muscles.

It's never racism. There's always an out.

I personally would've stopped the bypasser and call the cops if it was a 16yr old white girl waiting for a friend!
 

mashoutposse

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
445
Yes, why didn't the black guy give all his info to this white guy exerting his authority (authority that he doesn't have)? If Cukor was genuinely concerned about the trespassing or felt threatened in any way, he wouldn't have made the 911 call smuggly in Wesley's face and have a direct confrontation in his kid's presence. This is just him flexing his white privilege 'yeah, I'm calling the cops on you, what are you going to do about it?' muscles.

It's never racism. There's always an out.

You don't need to feel threatened to call 911. You simply have to be confronted with a situation that you cannot resolve yourself.

Cukor opens a secure door, Wesly enters through it without using his own credentials. It's fair for Cukor to ask him to leave or to ask him for info so that he can be comfortable letting him stay there. Wesly has no right to be there, yet he stands his ground. The results are predictable.

What exactly are you disagreeing with here? You feel we should treat people like criminals and call the cops if they're trying to tailgate? Is that seriously a proportionate response in your mind?

I guess if you have an adversarial attitude toward strangers that might be how you approach situations like this. Sucks.

I said it's a two-way street. Meaning, in addition to tailgaters being handled reasonably by cautious residents, tailgaters should not automatically treat cautious residents like racists if the tailgater happens to be a minority.

At one point, Wesly gets within inches of Cukor's face with the camera. Surprising that there wasn't a separate escalation right there.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,467
Miami
You can't accost random people already there, and I don't understand your point. That has nothing to do with this situation.

You're responsible for making sure that you're not letting random unauthorized people enter the private areas of the premises piggybacking off of your credentials. At best, you're a bad neighbor. At worst, you're breaching your HOA's rules and regulations. You may want to check on that.
If you want to be private security in your building, knock yourself out. Maybe it's because I know what it feels like to be treated like I don't belong somewhere based on how I look but I never have nor ever will police the movements of a stranger in a shared space if they're not posing any kind of threat.

Reading shit like this makes me wonder how folks function in the outside world, must be terrifying surrounded by potential loiterers everywhere.
 

Deleted member 4452

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Oct 25, 2017
2,377
I said it's a two-way street. Meaning, in addition to tailgaters being handled reasonably by cautious residents, tailgaters should not automatically treat cautious residents like racists if the tailgater happens to be a minority.

At one point, Wesly gets within inches of Cukor's face with the camera. Surprising that there wasn't a separate escalation right there.
You're really going out of your way here. Look how calm and smug Cukor is as he's calling the cops. The same guy who's justifying his actions because his dad got killed for directly confronting someone alone. Does this look like a man concerned for his safety? He must have been real pissed because how dare this black guy not submit to his authority.

"tailgaters should not automatically treat cautious residents like racists if the tailgater happens to be a minority" Just another black guy pulling the race card, right?
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,467
Miami
White people are not racist, only a really small minority, the rest are just beware of anything a PoC do around them because you never know...

Hahaha
You joke but you have no idea how often I've seen this argued in less progressive spaces than this.

"I'm not racist 'cause *insert crime stats here*!"
 

Anti

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
2,972
Australia
You joke but you have no idea how often I've seen this argued in less progressive spaces than this.

"I'm not racist 'cause *insert crime stats here*!"

I am not joking, as PoC I've seen it from acquaintances and random white people, in their eyes they are not racist but their words and actions tell a different story, you can even see it in this thread how some people are defending that racist dude and the way they do it.
 
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▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 26, 2017
28,429
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White people are not racist, only a really small minority, the rest are just beware of anything a PoC do around them because you never know...

Hahaha

Here's the thing though. Why do we only take racism at face value when it's at its most overt (old white dude having a racist out burst)? Why?

Even then they can apologize and have some people still saying, "well, he was mad, we all say things when mad."

In this thread we have post that might as well say, "don't play the race card here, I would've done the same to anyone!" Would love to see the stats of white women having the police called on them in this situation and lol if you would call the cops on someone here.

It's a catch 22. If it can't be racism then what it is? Why give the benefit of the doubt here based off his behavior in the video? Wesley speaking over him on the phone was a perfect case of him realizing his power in the situation. "Software engineer," Cukor's "he's wearing a Yankees hat," and Wesley's response "all day baby." He was a victim here and was clearly profiled. I'm glad he was able to flip it on its head. He's pretty aware of what might be going on there...

Race played no roll in this though.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,748
While simultaneously discrediting the Black experience.

Oh for fucks sake. I just fucking can't anymore with this thread.

I keep writing and deleting long responses, but there's just no point. People have made up their minds and just want to claim a gotcha on posters.

I'll just end with, situations can arise where a white guy is able to be a racist asshole and the black guy isn't actually in the right. These two things are allowed to exist simultaneously. I don't actually know if I'd say this even gets to that point, cause we don't know how this really started. I've primarily been responding to hypotheticals about people tailgating into buildings because a lot of posters legitimately don't seem to understand how some buildings work and it's incredibly weird. In my building, there is no super or management company or doorman to call - the residents are the security.
 
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▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 26, 2017
28,429
Chicago
Oh for fucks sake. I just fucking can't anymore with this thread.

I keep writing and deleting long responses, but there's just no point. People have made up their minds and just want to claim a gotcha on posters.

I'll just end with, situations can arise where a white guy is able to be a racist asshole and the black guy isn't actually in the right. These two things are allowed to exist simultaneously. I don't actually know if I'd say this even gets to that point, cause we don't know how this really started. I've primarily been responding to hypotheticals about people tailgating into buildings because a lot of posters legitimately don't seem to understand how some buildings work and it's incredibly weird. In my building, there is no super or management company or doorman to call - the residents are the security.

You've showed where your priorities lie throughout the thread and assume people don't understand that there are rules and layers to situations and things. We get, you can move on now.

Someday, maybe you can comeback and reread the thread and maybe you'll see things from a different perspective.
 
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Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,467
Miami
You've showed where your priorities lie throughout the thread and assume people don't understand that rules and layers to situations are things. We get, you can move on now.

Someday, maybe you can comeback and reread the thread and maybe you'll see things from a different perspective.
I think the thing that's eye-opening for folks who really don't have experience with these situations is how easily authority is redistributed, especially over PoC. When you honestly believe with all your heart that owning an apartment in a shared building bestows some kind of police powers on you it's time to re-examine your belief system.

I remember pointing out the same fallacy in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin thread on the old site. Dude had zero authority but simply by the act of a cosplaying as a racist cop folks were willing to recognize him as one and even give him blanket immunity to kill. It's a disease in this country.