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legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
4ea.jpg


Bernie's not getting the nomination. Dems need to get behind one person and come out swinging next year, and the old white guys a whisper away from dementia/death aren't going to cut it.
Somebody tell Metal Slugger that this is a Primary.

Also, that "fall in line" trash didnt work in 2016 a d it wont now. Try to maybe stop messing with shitty candidates?
 
Dec 9, 2018
21,084
New Jersey
People should realize that Bernie's heart attack was just a two-stent procedure and something his own doctors didn't see as a big health problem. The word "heart attack" is reasonably spooky, but Bernie's condition is very minor. He can definitely last a full term in his current well-being.
 
mod post: cut the trolling and meta-commentary

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
Official Staff Communication
If you aren't in this thread to discuss the endorsements and are here instead to troll or flame then you need to stop. Enough with the meta-commentary and trolling and counter-trolling.
 

Deleted member 2699

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
619
Anyone who was surprised by this clearly doesn't understand who these women are, or what they stand for.

AOC has openly called herself a Democratic Socialist. The idea that she wouldn't endorse the only other demsoc in primary is laughable.

Omar has worked with Bernie a lot since coming to Congress, and Bernie was one of the first people to have her back when the party threw under the bus when she was being bombarded by Islamophobic attacks.

Talib is our only Palestinian-Amercian representative, and Bernie is the only candidate that has anything resembling a half-way decent take on Isreal.
 

Nocturnal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,321
People should realize that Bernie's heart attack was just a two-stent procedure and something his own doctors didn't see as a big health problem. The word "heart attack" is reasonably spooky, but Bernie's condition is very minor. He can definitely last a full term in his current well-being.

Yep, usually people with these procedures actually become more energetic afterwards. The procedure, is done by catheterization rather than surgery you can read more about it https://www.livescience.com/bernie-sanders-stents-serious.html
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
One question I had for a long time because while I love reading about US politics, I'm from Brazil so I'm not talking daily with people about it like you guys are:

Why a large part of progressives don't like Bernie Sanders? It seems so weird to me because he obviously has the most progressive views of all the candidates, even Warren. I do understand that having a woman as president is really big and I'm sure Warren would make a great presidente, but it seems that Sanders has better plans for everything, specially healthcare.

Different people have different views on things. There can be loads of reasons based on your individual reasoning to support either candidate if you're a progressive.

To address the plan thing first. Proposed plans matter only to a point. The American system is super conservative so the policy differences between Warren and Bernie aren't going to be the pivot point on what gets passed, that's just not where the debate is politically so if Bernie is slightly to the left of Warren on plans then practically you might not care. Plans are more like a compass than what will actually be passed, especially when you have to rely on someone like Joe Manchin for votes.

They also have different views on stuff like the Senate filibuster, which can be a barrier to progressive legislation, last I checked it Bernie was opposed to scrapping it and Warren is pro scrapping it (willing to be wrong if I missed something here).

Warren did not come into this campaign as a frontrunner, with a huge fanbase or a big-time name recognition. She's not Hillary Clinton. The ability to slowly, but steadily grow support to the point of being even above Bernie's, while holding a lot of similar positions, speaks to her ability to surround herself with great people and execute on a great plan. She's not afraid to argue with people about what's right, even to the point of situations which could have been negatives for her career like buting heads with the Obama over financial issues. Things like "she used to be a Republican when she wasn't a politician" or "she changed her mind about X" are seen as negatives by some progressive purists, however, I view them as major positives. People being able to change their mind, especially in a public way where people scrutinise your every move. I think she's charismatic, a great orator and really good at breaking down complex issues. And finally, some progressives will dislike this, but she seems good at building coalitions.

And she seems the most healthy out of the frontrunners.

Bernie would also be great, but Warren seems a little better to me due to the above reasons. I can see myself changing though if Bernie does way better than expected in actual votes.
 

Kayla

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,316
Lol remember when the centrists tried to tell us how smart AOC was and would never endorse Bernie because she knows how to play the game...

I love aoc. Woohoo.This is great for Bernie. I'm sure now we will get people telling us that they aren't popular with America 🤣
 

abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,937
Austin, TX
The impression I've had for a few years now is that the whole "Squad" started out by being inspired by Bernie so this sort of goes without saying that they'd do it (AOC especially). It won't make a different in people's voting, but they have to show some allegiance to their mentor/inspiration.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
The impression I've had for a few years now is that the whole "Squad" started out by being inspired by Bernie so this sort of goes without saying that they'd do it (AOC especially). It won't make a different in people's voting, but they have to show some allegiance to their mentor/inspiration.
It's far simpler than that.
It's socialists endorsing the socialist.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,405
I'm interested in seeing if these endorsements will actually move the needle in favor of Bernie.

My guess is that they won't.

I'm guessing they will move the needle for Bernie, but will it be able to close the gap between him and Biden / Warren? Probably not. Maybe?

It will be interesting to see how much of a bump he does get after this.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,536
Portland, OR
That endorsement makes perfect sense. I'm still not voting for a near-octogenarian white dude that wants to seize the means of production for President.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I love how we're going right up to the line of calling these woc low information voters who don't know what's good for them. Pretty bro-y if you ask me

edit: saw the mod post for meta commentary after posting
 
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Tracygill

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,853
The Left
This is awesome. There is no one else with policies like Bernie. He looked great in the debate. His movement is going to win this. SINGLE PAYER Medicare For All (including mental health). Cancel ALL student and medical debt. Free college. FULL Green New Deal. No half measures. Let's go!
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,473
Chicago
I'm not sure why do many people are down on this and Bernie. Like even if he doesn't win and you want Warren what's all this negativity about?
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,071
I'm not sure why do many people are down on this and Bernie. Like even if he doesn't win and you want Warren what's all this negativity about?

What fun is it to sit in a circle and hold hands?

That's for the general election. Right now, people can and should get passionate about their candidate of choice... Because no matter what, I'm voting for whomever the Democratic nominee is.
 

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,718
Edit - Saw the mod post. I'll leave my commentary on ERA out.

I'm surprised it took this long. But I understand she wants to see how things play out first.
 
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KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,856
Man, idk about this. I hope this doesn't just end up stopping Warren's momentum and clearing a path for Biden....I kinda wish they would've just waited until it came down to Biden v Someone else.

If Bernie were ten years younger, he'd probably be my pick, but jesus christ there is a significant chance he'll be dead before 4 years is up and I don't know why the hell we'd just give up incumbency advantage like that. Warren is already at the upper limit of age for me, and to be honest if there was a choice for progressives other than those two that was younger, I'd be very inclined to support them.

Additionally, it's hard to take any legislation Bernie proposes seriously considering his conservative positions on the filibuster, courts, electoral college, and other structural reforms. He's honestly one of the most conservative in the field on these topics, and that's incredibly frustrating considering how good he is elsewhere.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,473
Chicago
What fun is it to sit in a circle and hold hands?

That's for the general election. Right now, people can and should get passionate about their candidate of choice... Because no matter what, I'm voting for whomever the Democratic nominee is.

You don't have to be holding hands singing "We Are The World" to have a healthy discourse about the climate and potential forecast of things on the left.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Economically? Absolutely

The real breakdown comes from people who think social and economic issues are separate things that can be addressed independently, and those who think they are intertwined.
Disagree completely on the characterization of the forum as right leaning.

Also, giving some serious side eye at people writing off AOC & crew for this.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
The American system is super conservative so the policy differences between Warren and Bernie aren't going to be the pivot point on what gets passed, that's just not where the debate is politically so if Bernie is slightly to the left of Warren on plans then practically you might not care. Plans are more like a compass than what will actually be passed, especially when you have to rely on someone like Joe Manchin for votes.
this is a popular talking point that's inaccurate in a few different ways

first off sanders is pretty distinctly further left than warren in terms of foreign policy, which is an area where the president has very broad powers. a voter who's concerned about endless wars and extrajudicial foreign killings should probably vote for sanders over warren.

secondly sanders has a theory of change to overcome the roadblocks present in the american system, namely building and sustaining a broad working-class movement to constantly pressure both himself and the rest of our elected representatives into passing what we want. it's why he's the only candidate using his mailing list and social media presence to promote union actions. warren's plan, such as it is, is the same as what democrats have been doing for decades - rile up the base during the election, build a campaign to win the presidency, then tell everyone to go home and shut up for 4 years while the technocrats run things and we compromise with republicans in the congress. that has never accomplished what we needed. so you can say that the sanders plan is impossible or naive or whatever, but he at least has a plan that is different from what has demonstrably failed every time it's been tried.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
After last night its not AoC or Omar or Bernie that needs to be cancelled, its Pete Buttigieg. Thats where your anger and indignation should be focused on.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
It's far simpler than that.
It's socialists endorsing the socialist.

Neither Bernie nor anyone in the Squad is actually a socialist.

After last night its not AoC or Omar or Bernie that needs to be cancelled, its Pete Buttigieg. Thats where your anger and indignation should be focused on.

This is truth. You want to talk about ego? Guy has barely ever broken 10% and condescendingly talks like he knows how to run a country when he could barely handle a city.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
this is a popular talking point that's inaccurate in a few different ways

first off sanders is pretty distinctly further left than warren in terms of foreign policy, which is an area where the president has very broad powers. a voter who's concerned about endless wars and extrajudicial foreign killings should probably vote for sanders over warren.

secondly sanders has a theory of change to overcome the roadblocks present in the american system, namely building and sustaining a broad working-class movement to constantly pressure both himself and the rest of our elected representatives into passing what we want. it's why he's the only candidate using his mailing list and social media presence to promote union actions. warren's plan, such as it is, is the same as what democrats have been doing for decades - rile up the base during the election, build a campaign to win the presidency, then tell everyone to go home and shut up for 4 years while the technocrats run things and we compromise with republicans in the congress. that has never accomplished what we needed. so you can say that the sanders plan is impossible or naive or whatever, but he at least has a plan that is different from what has demonstrably failed every time it's been tried.

With foreign policy, do you have a couple of policies which show that big divide? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just ignorant of this point so I just want to have an idea of the things he would do that she wouldn't. Reading the below on his website, his foreign policy doesn't seem that different to hers to me.


With your second point, this is so dependent on something that there isn't really much evidence for that's it's difficult to comment. The broad working class progressive political movement doesn't appear to exist right now, in fact those voters seem to prefer Biden, so it's difficult for me to imagine what you're talking about. like I said, if it turns out all the polls are wrong and Bernie is wildly popular and wins in a landslide I'd adjust my current belief. Just having a different plan isn't that commendable to me.

It feels like these are different times. Bipartisanship seems to be dead or near dying. Voting rights changes, statehood changes, and abolishing the filibuster are tangible, popular policies that would greatly reduce the conservativeness of the US Political system. I don't think a tidal wave of change is coming, but things can definitely be pushed in the right direction.