WaPo: Coronavirus makes the case for Medicare-for-all

[Tracygill]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/26/coronavirus-makes-case-medicare-for-all/

Osmel Martinez Azcue wanted to do the right thing, for both his own health and the health of the nation. When the Florida resident came down with flu-like symptoms shortly after returning from a trip to China, he immediately went to a local hospital to get tested for coronavirus.


A few weeks later, according to the Miami Herald, Azcue received an invoice for more than $3,000. His insurer claims he's responsible for $1,400 of the total. He's expecting even more bills to arrive over the next few weeks.


We're all fixated on the Trump administration's day-late-and-billions-of-dollars-short response to the increasing likelihood that coronavirus will cause a public-health crisis in the United States. But the fact remains that even if the government were fully prepared, many Americans will face another barrier to receiving care that will make the crisis worse.


That barrier is their wallet.


Medicare-for-all is usually presented as a moral argument: The United States is the richest country ever known; it is not right that we don't guarantee access to easily affordable and accessible health care like every other First World country. But this situation is not simply immoral — it also leaves the United States at a major disadvantage when it comes to combating global pandemics.


We don't want people to be wondering whether they can afford to visit the doctor if they think they've got this contagious and possibly deadly disease. But by happenstance, ideology and shortsighted, penny-wise-pound-foolish thinking, we've set up a situation that will force many to do just that.

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Viruses and infectious diseases don't check your deductibles, co-pays and network access before they strike. Doubters may claim that our nation can't afford Medicare-for-all, but it's increasingly likely that we are about to discover just how costly our current system really is.

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There are some...unique... aspects to the US that make the risks of coronavirus getting out of hand higher than places in Europe. They're tough to quantify, but hear me out.


First, people in the US tend to avoid seeking medical care due to the cost. So, a lot of people who get sick won't get tested because they can't afford a $1,400 medical bill for getting tested and seeking treatment.

A cautionary tale: A Miami man doesn't have the coronavirus but may now owe thousands of dollars for being tested

A Miami man who had traveled to China came home with flu-like symptoms. He didn't have the coronavirus, but making sure cost him at least $1,400.

www.businessinsider.com

Next, people in the US aren't guaranteed sick leave or days off. Employers routinely tell people "come in, or you're fired." Particularly in low wage jobs where people handle food...So they'll come in sick and...boom.


Worth noting that coronavirus doesn't generally completely incapacitate people, so a lot of workers will believe they can tough it out through a day of work.


Then there's kids. Because of the lack of sick time off for parents, and the prohibitive cost of health care, if their kid gets sick they're less likely to try to stay home with their them, or take them in for medical treatment.


In home child care is prohibitively expensive as well for single moms and lower income families where both parents work. So, they're much more likely to send their child to school, and hope they can tough it out.


This is very likely to happen early in the symptomatic period where people are ambulatory and functional. Parents will find excuses like, it's not that bad, it's Friday, they can recover over the weekend, we'll see how it goes, etc...


Also, the US health care system is built for maximum profit. There has long been a drive to eliminate excess bed capacity at hospitals. As a result, the US ranks 32nd out of 40 in hospital beds per 1000 people among OECD countries.


If coronavirus gets rolling in the US, we will "break" the system very quickly as occupancy passes 85-90%.
nj.gov/health/rhc/doc…


I'm not saying this WILL happen, but are risks worth considering, because all of them are systemic failures within the US to provide medical care via single payer, sick leave, child care availability. The for-profit nature of US health care is a risk.


UPDATE: Trump has put Pence in charge of the response, and people have brought up a few additional points. "


Trump admin doesn't want to disrupt the economy or consumer confidence, because his re-election depends on it.


Also, data is emerging showing 94% of coronavirus deaths occur in people over 50. A pandemic would disproportionately affect Trump's base. CDC saying 40-70% of US could become infected. Inside the WH, I suspect there's a sense of urgency.


Someone else on this thread pointed out that without sick leave, parents will be tempted to leave sick kids with their grandparents. Given the statistic above... that would be bad.


Also, the CDC's initial test for coronavirus has proved ineffective. Things could already be worse than we know. This is a known unknown.


washingtonpost.com/health/2020/02…

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[WedgeX]

One of the reasons the US is rated so low on pandemic readiness is access to healthcare, so yeah.

 

[show me your skeleton]

america is an absolute mess.

 

[lowmelody]

"how are we going to pay for it?" emblazoned on a sign barely sicking out from a flood of water blood.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

In the sense that it lowers barriers to accessing healthcare whenever necessary, yes.

 

[TacomaSCDisaster]

Absolutely. There are already claims being made that any potential vaccine might not be available to all due to costs/insurance and that is fucking inexcusable. America might see a new plague and it will be made worse by stingy billionaires.

 

[ClickyCal']

Anyone against medicare for all is evil.

 

[human onion]

The cost in human life will be higher/more significant than the monetary cost of implementing Medicare for All, but coward politicians and health industry executives will whine "how will we pay for it???" until everyone is fucking dead.

EDIT: This isn't dooming about coronavirus specifically, just that we'll keep seeing this shit for every health crisis we see.

 

[C.Mongler]

It's probably the primary reason that America is and always will be (as long as we have our current healthcare system anyway) under-prepared for a domestic viral pandemic.

Millions of people will put off going to the doctor because of the possible, unknown costs.

 

[carlsojo]

Uhh no I don't think Coronavirus makes the case for M4A, I think there's like a thousand things that have made the case for M4A long before Corona. Corona is just the latest to highlight that our healthcare industry is fucked to hell.

 

[sphagnum]

We're doomed lol

 

[Dest]

Am I incorrect in thinking that there's kind of two issues at play here?
One being that stingy rich people will say that we can't afford it but then problem two, lets say that we have a medicare for all system that we're just not equipped to deal with it regardless of funding or not, as we just don't have enough people trained in medical fields/crisis training to deal with not only general health needs for a country but an outbreak like we might have with the Coronavirus?

 

[lowmelody]

Banks are too important and big to fail. The population itself? Sounds like sociali--- *bang* *thud*

 

[electricblue]

I think its more the lack of sick leave/paid time off regulations that will help spread any disease in the US very effectively. That and in the US we don't take pandemics seriously even though we have the technology to work/school from home by and large. Its been a disaster waiting to happen for decades and maybe its finally going to hit us

 

[GoldenEye 007]

A combo of unaffordable health access and employer shame of people taking sick days - if they even have them does not seem like an ideal combination.

We've only had decades to fix it. We choose not to, though.

 

[J-Skee]

Paying $1400 just to make sure you don't have the virus is insane. I will never understand the justification for not supporting Medicare for All.

 

[Infinity Times Two]

One being that stingy rich people will say that we can't afford it but then problem two, lets say that we have a medicare for all system that we're just not equipped to deal with it regardless of funding or not, as we just don't have enough people trained in medical fields/crisis training to deal with not only general health needs for a country but an outbreak like we might have with the Coronavirus?

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If that is an issue, Isn't that on the healthcare system to adapt to the needs of the people, not the other way around?

 

[Deleted member 4532]

America is the worst

 

[Astronut325]

M4A + mandatory paid leave.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

This threat displays the important difference between left and right populist solutions. The right wing way is to blame foreigners. The left wing way is to actually address material needs universally.

Too many people content in their class position in life are pretending these 2 different things are the same (Horseshoe theory).

 

[Sendero]

It makes the case, not just for M4A, but for legislation that regulates the pharma companies and lack of funding on critical areas:

*USA Biotech companies uses these kind of moments, to manipulate their Stock by releasing false information (in this case, saying that they had invented a vaccine already). Government should take a closer look and punish them for its recklessness.

*There needs to be even more incentives to prevent pharma companies to gouge prices, if they anticipate an increase on product's demands.

*USA companies are shying away from work on vaccines, given that some of them yield low margins.

*USA also depends on China for base precursors/active ingredients used in most medicaments. If China is hit, then not only they will absorb everything for themselves, it will create a global scarcity. Something that they can very well artificially do, at any time, if it benefits them.

*USA cannot rely on importing medicine from Canada, for these kind of emergencies. Canadians would rightfully put a limit to such practice, if they were to be affected too.

*Obviously, most plans do not cover these kinds of sudden emergencies. Which means lack of test kits, lack of medicine, and proper protocols on the early days.

*What if someone claims using vaccines and medicine for treatment is against their believes? F*k the rest? There needs to be stronger protocols -state wise- to deal with opportunists and lack of information.

*A good portion of Rural areas do not even have enough nurses (nevermind doctors, or facilities) to handle major problems, thanks to defunding and budget rerouting. That's Conservative electorate, that Democrats needs to take into consideration. If they fall, cities will be next.

We can only imagine all the extra overhead in procedures/paperwork, hospitals and doctors would be put on if a large community suddenly gets infected.
Sander needs to put Trump (and the rest of the Democrats) on blast for all the negligence on these topics.

 

[kittens]

The case has long been made from both a public health and a social justice perspective. Healthcare is a human fuckng right.

 

[Violence Jack]

Many people have no idea how much their health insurance will pay. That uncertainty leads to a lot of people refusing to seek medical treatment and it shouldn't be that way. How many stories have we heard over the years about someone needing an ambulance to take them to the hospital only to be saddled with a ridiculous bill that they can't afford? Or hell, watch John Q and know that shit like that happens all the time where people have to choose either to be healthy or poor.

 

[Vic Damone Jr.]

Anyone against medicare for all is evil.

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But we can't pay for it! :(

/s

 

[entremet]

america is an absolute mess.

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It's basically a place where the experiment of letting business run amok without any meaningful regulation was realized for the world to see.

Moreover, America prizes individual wealth over collective wealth (public commons, public welfare, and so on), look at failing infrastructure, high incarceration rates, high child homelessness rates, medical-related bankruptcies. But hey, the stock market is setting records. Gotta rely on those bootstraps!

 

[show me your skeleton]

It's basically a place where the experiment of letting business run amok without any meaningful regulation was realized for the world to see.

Moreover, America prizes individual wealth over collective wealth (public commons, public welfare, and so on), look at failing infrastructure, high incarceration rates, high child homelessness rates. But hey, the stock market is setting records. Gotta rely on those boostraps!

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there's a definite line between it's liberalist foundations, wild west pioneer years, american exceptionalism and the state the place is in now.

 

[DrForester]

The us is screwed if a major outbreak occurs becase people are reluctant to see a doctor.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Sleve McDichael]

I'm 100% for medicare for all.
The coronavirus does help make a case for it (I guess), but I voted no because we shouldn't need a new disease to come along and scare everyone into thinking it's finally time for us to get our shit together.
There are countless reasons why we should do it.

 

[entremet]

there's a definite line between it's liberalist foundations, wild west pioneer years, american exceptionalism and the state the place is in now.

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Unfortunately, our political discourse is focused on these two silly extremes of pure capitalism and pure socialism, when no country in existence is that. There is nuance.

For some reason, people "get" socialism for things like highways, sewer systems, and roads. But when you mention it for healthcare, they go nuts. Obviously, I'm aware of the massive propaganda campaign by the insurance industry, but the lack of critical thinking is baffling. Socialized healthcare won't lead to Leninism.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

This illness itself doesn't make the case. The case has BEEN made. People will get sick. It's part of the human condition. As a civilization, we have the means to afford modern healthcare to all. And we should choose to invest in it so no one dies a preventable death because they're not of a certain level of means.

Unfortunately, our political discourse is focused on these two silly extremes of pure capitalism and pure socialism, when no country in existence is that. There is nuance.

For some reason, people "get" socialism for things like highways, sewer systems, and roads. But when you mention it for healthcare, they go nuts. Obviously, I'm aware of the massive propaganda campaign by the insurance industry, but the lack of critical thinking is baffling. Socialized healthcare won't lead to Leninism.

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They don't teach critical thinking in schools. They teach mostly bullshit and we wonder why our population is mostly ignorant and easily manipulated. And the saddest part is, regarding socialism, we already have socialism. Corporate socialism is real and it's been going on for decades. An amazing redistribution of wealth.

 

[KtotheRoc]

Coronavirus makes clear what has been true all along. Your health is as safe as that of the worst-insured, worst-cared-for person in your society. It will be decided by the height of the floor, not the ceiling.

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[DavidDesu]

If anything I'm just glad how much this might filter into the presidential election and help someone like Bernie out who can use this as a sledgehammer against the corrupt and immoral health"care" system in the US.

 

[Deleted member 9035]

Give everyone guns so they can shoot the virus!

 

[faceless]

it doesn't make the case.

just don't get sick.

or *choose* good healthcare.

the people who are against it won't sway because of this.

 

[DavidDesu]

I'm 100% for medicare for all.
The coronavirus does help make a case for it (I guess), but I voted no because we shouldn't need a new disease to come along and scare everyone into thinking it's finally time for us to get our shit together.
There are countless reasons why we should do it.

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Yes there are many reasons but a potential pandemic brings into sharp contrast how ineffectual the US system is and how it will literally increase the scale of the disaster of Coronavirus due to the inability of the poor to get treatment AND how those people will help spread it to everyone else because businesses will want them in working or they have no choice but to work otherwise end up on the streets. Social insurance and healthcare all wrapped up in one issue.

 

[djplaeskool]

The us is screwed if a major outbreak occurs becase people are reluctant to see a doctor.

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There are also plenty of places where, reluctant or not, care just simply isn't available.
I'm sweating something big breaking out in Georgia, because there's such a huge ratio of the state outside of cities that literally have zero reliable access to care.The number of facilities that have reduced/removed emergency capacity, or completely shut down since the recession has been staggering.

 

[entremet]

This illness itself doesn't make the case. The case has BEEN made. People will get sick. It's part of the human condition. As a civilization, we have the means to afford modern healthcare to all. And we should choose to invest in it so no one dies a preventable death because they're not of a certain level of means.



They don't teach critical thinking in schools. They teach mostly bullshit and we wonder why our population is mostly ignorant and easily manipulated. And the saddest part is, regarding socialism, we already have socialism. Corporate socialism is real and it's been going on for decades. An amazing redistribution of wealth.

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Correct.

There are no real free markets. Look at the Amazon HQ2 farce? States were willing to provide very generous tax breaks. Why does a trillion-dollar company need that? The question is rhetorical. But if we're going for truly free markets without government intervention, such moves would be seen as cronyism. Same with lobbyists and corporate donations.

Same with technology that developed in government-funded research institutions then monetized--see Google.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

One of the biggest reasons I support a candidate that isn't afraid to constantly talk about it is because it forces the country to have a conversation that needs to be talked about. Simple steps forward here or there really doesn't solve the issue at hand. Our system isn't sustainable without tons more debt on people, tons more suffering, and tons more dying.

 

[Method]

Anand Giridharadas tweet

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Anand has really been on point in every interview/tweet he's made in the past few weeks. Props to him.

 

[Dali]

There's a bunch of reasons for health care for all, many of which have to do with benefits to society as a whole. This is just the latest example of improving the QoL for everyone. It will be ignored just like all the other arguments.

 

[Faenix1]

I've always thought medicine should be a right not a privilege, so the case was made years ago.

 

[Gigglepoo]

There's a bunch of reasons for health care for all, many of which have to do with benefits to society as a whole. This is just the latest example of improving the QoL for everyone. It will be ignored just like all the other arguments.

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I honestly believe America will adopt universal healthcare relatively soon. The gulf between the rich and the poor is growing wider and angrier. You can only push the downtrodden so much before there's a revolt of some kind. Whether it's violent or peaceful depends on how well our leaders perform in the coming years, but change is inevitable.

 

[Vimto]

Nope. M4A is a basic human right regardless if there is epidemic or not

 

[pink]

One of the reasons the US is rated so low on pandemic readiness is access to healthcare, so yeah.

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i thought we were #1 in readiness?

 

[Deleted member 8561]

Uhhh, no.

Other nations with affordable accessible healthcare don't have M4A healthcare systems and don't need one. M4A is not the only solution to our health crisis in terms of accessibility and cost, or an actual health crisis like the current situation.

 

[WedgeX]

i thought we were #1 in readiness?

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Number 1, but not actually ready:

While the U.S. ranked No.1 overall, the report found that not a single country in the world is fully prepared to handle an epidemic or pandemic.

The United States scored in the bottom tier of countries for access to health care "owing to lack of governmentally guaranteed access to healthcare plus high out-of-pocket expenditures per capita," the report said.

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Trump addressed the nation on coronavirus. We checked the facts.

President Donald Trump and top U.S. health officials addressed the nation on the new coronavirus, COVID-19, on Wednesday. Here's a fact check.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Aranjah]

Uhh no I don't think Coronavirus makes the case for M4A, I think there's like a thousand things that have made the case for M4A long before Corona. Corona is just the latest to highlight that our healthcare industry is fucked to hell.

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I voted yes because I'm in favor of it, but really this is more in line with my way of thinking. Coronavirus doesn't make the case because the case had already been made by the time coronavirus showed up.

 

[Morrigan]

I would say "no" because it kind of implies that "OK, now we need Medicare for All" and that there wasn't already a case being made before. Which is idiotic.

This illness itself doesn't make the case. The case has BEEN made. People will get sick. It's part of the human condition. As a civilization, we have the means to afford modern healthcare to all. And we should choose to invest in it so no one dies a preventable death because they're not of a certain level of means.

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This.

 

[Stay Up Be Easy]

I have a burning hatred for surprise medical bills.

M4A is the only way forward.

It's my line in the sand.

President, Senator, Congressman. It's non-negotiable.