WaPo: Disney knew its park was full of alligators. It caught hundreds before a boy was killed.

[RobotHaus]

Im not really surprised at the gators in Florida, I'm more surprised that Disney doesn't actively monitor and police the water in their park, that's a huge liability.

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They do monitor the water in their parks, everyday. It's at the resorts where the issue occurs. A lot of their land is used as a natural preserve, so to police and monitor those areas would take a large amount of individuals and time.

Just to put it into scale, the Walt Disney World Resort is around 43 square miles of swampland with industrial development within it. A comparable city size to that would be San Francisco.

 

[Deleted member 176]

Alligators are great

 

[Blastronaut]

When I was at Shades of Green in 2010 there were many gator signs posted near every body of water. Not sure about the other resorts, but Shades of Green was a Disney resort on Disney grounds.

 

[Somnia]

The kid wasn't swimming.

And they weren't from Florida.

They were on a resort built to look like a beach. There was no cutoff to water access. The signs said no swimming because of a drop off. No mention of alligators at all.

That's the point of the numbers mentioned in the article. It's reasonable that if Disney is having to actively fighting to keep gators off their property constantly that they should take better and clearer precautions for the millions of people from around the world that go there.

I mean....after it happened, that's exactly what they did. It shouldn't have come to a kid dying to make that happen.

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This is where we can agree to disagree just like the thread from when this happened on the other site.

No swimming to me means to stay out of the water. Some people seem to think going into the water (which the kid was) is still ok. There were faults all over the place for this happening. Including guests staying at the Grand Floridian and Polynesian who fed these gators when they saw them. This was happening at the Bungalows at the Polynesian to the point some guests were removed because they saw a gator in the water, instead of saying something, they would feed it. This leads to gators searching for food near all the people.

I'm not saying Disney didn't do enough prior to this attack, we will agree there. They should have the rocks/rope fences and signs they have up now, but they were removing gators as they were found regularly.

 

[Grym]

Oh course they have alligators. I've personally seen smaller ones being removed from the water around Tom Sawyer Island while in Magic Kingdom.

They are in a swamp. They have tons of land and tons of water. Alligators live there and like water. How exactly could they keep them out of their expansive property?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qp_bUYPrTg

 

[Mathieran]

I fail to see how any of this is Disney's fault. Most of the time when shit happens the company is liable but this is not one of those times.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

I remember this story from last year. Weren't there signs posted to "beware of alligators in water" all along the water line that the family apparently ignored?

 

[echoshifting]

I remember this story from last year. Weren't there signs posted to "beware of alligators in water" all along the water line that the family apparently ignored?

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No. adj_noun posted pics of the old signs on the last page.

 

[No Depth]

They do monitor the water in their parks, everyday. It's at the resorts where the issue occurs. A lot of their land is used as a natural preserve, so to police and monitor those areas would take a large amount of individuals and time.

Just to put it into scale, the Walt Disney World Resort is around 43 square miles of swampland with industrial development within it. A comparable city size to that would be San Francisco.

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Yep, I think WDW employs close to 70,000 individuals alone and is on natural preserve land partly on loan and shared with local stakeholders. It literally is a city unto itself.

Many should keep in mind that part of the negotiations for the expansion of WDW(over the years and particularly recently), is that Disney has a contractual obligation to maintain and preserve the wildlife and presence of the land they inhabit. Essentially they can't just mass murder or expunge these creatures, fuck with the soil and habitat, or do any harm to damn near anything. Even regulations on construction for stuff like the Pandora park undergo years of planning and negotiations for the tiniest details. WDW actually is very serious about following protocol and legislation to a T on this stuff, but gators exist all over and aren't a problem so easily dealt with.

There are obscene filters in place through more lawyers and city/state government representatives than you can fathom during the development process, but I get the scrutiny in this situation and it was horrifying to all. Yet, I don't see this quite so much a fault of improper prevention, so much as it was life finding a way.

 

[Deleted member 19003]

Disney had a lot of liability in the incident because they were hosting a 'movie on the beach' type event where park goers were encouraged to be outside on the beach of that lake. The 2 year old wasn't swimming, but he was wading and playing in it. It's really sad and those signs weren't nearly enough. They're lucky the family didn't sue.

 

[Inferno]

FLORIDA is full of alligators. If you're in Florida, consider that any standing body of water could quite likely have a gator living in it.

 

[Book One]

This is where we can agree to disagree just like the thread from when this happened on the other site.

No swimming to me means to stay out of the water. Some people seem to think going into the water (which the kid was) is still ok. There were faults all over the place for this happening. Including guests staying at the Grand Floridian and Polynesian who fed these gators when they saw them. This was happening at the Bungalows at the Polynesian to the point some guests were removed because they saw a gator in the water, instead of saying something, they would feed it. This leads to gators searching for food near all the people.

I'm not saying Disney didn't do enough prior to this attack, we will agree there. They should have the rocks/rope fences and signs they have up now, but they were removing gators as they were found regularly.

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Sure, I don't exactly disagree with you. I wouldn't do it with my family. just saying that they were actively, regularly removing gators makes it even crazier to me that they did the bare minimum. Or even built a 'beach' resort at all, really, I suppose. At least splurge a bit on a caution gators sign.

 

[ahoyhoy]

This is where we can agree to disagree just like the thread from when this happened on the other site.

No swimming to me means to stay out of the water. Some people seem to think going into the water (which the kid was) is still ok. There were faults all over the place for this happening. Including guests staying at the Grand Floridian and Polynesian who fed these gators when they saw them. This was happening at the Bungalows at the Polynesian to the point some guests were removed because they saw a gator in the water, instead of saying something, they would feed it. This leads to gators searching for food near all the people.

I'm not saying Disney didn't do enough prior to this attack, we will agree there. They should have the rocks/rope fences and signs they have up now, but they were removing gators as they were found regularly.

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"No Swimming" is incredibly vague. Even if the kid had gone in the water, there's no indication of why they can't swim. It could be because the park isn't insured for swimmers, there aren't any lifeguards, there's a giant sinkhole in the bottom of the lake etc.

It's like saying that if someone parks in a "No Parking" zone and then their car is immediately crushed into a cube they should have expected it because there was a sign telling them not to do it.

 

[Maven]

Coming from the desert, I was amazed at how many bodies of water Florida has inland. Coming from the desert, I was also irrationally scared of having an alligator pop out of the water no matter the size of the puddle.

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Yep, people forget this about florida. It's not just beaches. There are tons of lakes, rivers, bays, streams, etc in FL.

Also, you can't willy nilly shoot gators for fun unless you want to head to jail

 

[Somnia]

"No Swimming" is incredibly vague. Even if the kid had gone in the water, there's no indication of why they can't swim. It could be because the park isn't insured for swimmers, there aren't any lifeguards, there's a giant sinkhole in the bottom of the lake etc.

It's like saying that if someone parks in a "No Parking" zone and then their car is immediately crushed into a cube they should have expected it because there was a sign telling them not to do it.

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Wrong it said no swimming due to a steep drop off, they let their kid go in the water while the father was near by. Would you let your 2 year old go into the water, in the pitch black knowing there is a steep drop off somewhere, with no indication of how far out you have to go for the drop off?

Look Disney was partially liable, but there were faults caused by more than just Disney.

In the end though it's incredibly sad what happened and I am glad Disney is being more proactive about it now.

 

[WaffleTaco]

I remember this story from last year. Weren't there signs posted to "beware of alligators in water" all along the water line that the family apparently ignored?

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The signs were "Don't swim in water." Or something along that lines. Alligator signs are now posted because of this incident.

Disney had a lot of liability in the incident because they were hosting a 'movie on the beach' type event where park goers were encouraged to be outside on the beach of that lake. The 2 year old wasn't swimming, but he was wading and playing in it. It's really sad and those signs weren't nearly enough. They're lucky the family didn't sue.

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The family might not have won, and it would have been a legal battle that would have lasted years. There is also evidence that the parents could have found to be negligent as well.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Wrong it said no swimming due to a steep drop off, they let their kid go in the water while the father was near by. Would you let your 2 year old go into the water, in the pitch black knowing there is a steep drop off somewhere, with no indication of how far out you have to go for the drop off?

Look Disney was partially liable, but there were faults caused by more than just Disney.

In the end though it's incredibly sad what happened and I am glad Disney is being more proactive about it now.

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Well as you said they didn't go nearly far enough educating and protecting their guests on the real dangers that Disney had clearly recognized. I think they should pay some restitution and should have to go farther than they are because the amount of gators still in those waters makes me think it's a question of when, not if.

 

[spookyduzt]

Um, no shit? It's Florida. It's a swamp. Gators live in swamps. Gators live in Florida. Next thing you're gonna tell me there's sharks in the ocean.

 

[Deleted member 135]

I mean, who wouldn't know?

Disney of course was grossly negligent to have open bodies of water accessible without any sort of warnings and fencing, but it's Florida. Every body of water that isn't a maintained pool has alligators in it. Fuck, there are alligators in the Rivers of America within the actual park at times.

 

[Somnia]

Well as you said they didn't go nearly far enough educating and protecting their guests on the real dangers that Disney had clearly recognized. I think they should pay some restitution and should have to go farther than they are because the amount of gators still in those waters makes me think it's a question of when, not if.

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What is your suggestion? They put up rocks along the water and fences to keep guests further away and they have signs warning of snakes and gators. What else can they do other than what they already are doing?

They legally cannot kill the gators and they cannot legally change the environment, it has to be preserved by law.

 

[Deleted member 19003]

The signs were "Don't swim in water." Or something along that lines. Alligator signs are now posted because of this incident.

The family might not have won, and it would have been a legal battle that would have lasted years. There is also evidence that the parents could have found to be negligent as well.

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Disney would have never let it go to court, the media frenzy alone and backlash would have been terrible for them PR wise. They would have settled for a huge amount, I'm sure.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

No. adj_noun posted pics of the old signs on the last page.

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I just saw that...

The signs were "Don't swim in water." Or something along that lines. Alligator signs are now posted because of this incident.

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So basically they ignored the sign to not go in the water because the sign didn't specifically state the ever present danger of gators (and snakes) in the water.
I get why a lawsuit could have been pursued. But I would have atleast asked for a lifetime pass for my immediate family (present and future) to the WDW parks in lieu of a cash settlement.

But it's good that Disney did what they did in response to the incident.

 

[ahoyhoy]

What is your suggestion? They put up rocks along the water and fences to keep guests further away and they have signs warning of snakes and gators. What else can they do other than what they already are doing?

They legally cannot kill the gators and they cannot legally change the environment, it has to be preserved by law.

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Drain brackish water where they can and put up high fences where they can't. It might end up looking like a concentration camp by the end but if they insist on staying in central Florida and attracting millions of oblivious guests each year, thems the brakes.

 

[Somnia]

I just saw that...



So basically they ignored the sign to not go in the water because the sign didn't specifically state the ever present danger of gators (and snakes) in the water.
I get why a lawsuit could have been pursued. But I would have atleast asked for a lifetime pass for my immediate family (present and future) to the WDW parks in lieu of a cash settlement.

But it's good that Disney did what they did in response to the incident.

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The family 100% got something from Disney outside of the courts. Most like a very large sum of cash and that statue at the Grand Floridian that advertises their Charity in their sons name. We will never know what Disney gave them though as it's most likely all under NDA and legal paperwork.

 

[Somnia]

Drain brackish water where they can and put up high fences where they can't. It might end up looking like a concentration camp by the end but if they insist on staying in central Florida and attracting millions of oblivious guests each year, thems the brakes.

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I think you missed the part where they cannot legally do that. They are required to preserve the land/environment they are on.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I think you missed the part where they cannot legally do that. They are required to preserve the land/environment they are on.

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Well then time to move to somewhere where they have more control over the environment or really step up the education game and remind people the park is basically built on a wetland is less a magical fairytale land and more a wildlife preserve.

 

[ragingbegal]

I would sue so hard that Disney would be writing a Star Wars sized cheque.



They could prevent this by putting fences around the water but they don't. It was 100% preventable because you would see the gator if it got over and the child wouldn't be able to get over the fence.

Disney 100% in the wrong here.

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Do you understand where on the resort this happened? It's near at the water's edge of a hotel property, not inside a park. I proposed to my wife very close to the location of the attack. It's a large body of water used for boat traffic and there would be no way to completely close it off (not to mention the negative wildlife impact it would have if they tried). Even the fences they've since put up would not stop an alligator. They're meant to discourage people from entering the water.

If the responsibility is on anyone, it's that boy's parents for ignoring the clearly posted safety warnings.

 

[Spacejaws]

Thread should say Disney knew Florida is full of Aligators and did nothing about it.

List 101 other things that Disney know are in Florida and didn't tell you can kill you. I'll start with cheese.

Honestly though Disney is a very reactionary company. While I am sure they would probably get away with this lawsuit, as the local Canaveral areas that I see often don't warn against gators either even though they are near bodies of water so I'm not sure it's a common legal requirement, Disney is crazy reactionary and I'm positivte that now this is happened they pull out all the stops to ensure that it doesn't happen again. On the outward side you see the new sign but behind the scenes there will be extra training, changes to procedure and no doubt specialists contacted on how to deal with it in the future.

Nonetheless still very tragic.

 

[Deleted member 835]

I get why there will always be gators in Florida. But to have no fences etc up to stop gators getting close is fucked up

 

[FeliciaFelix]

When I went to the Children's science museum, the very first exhibit is about alligators and how to outrun them, Zig zag to escape and how it eats small pets. That's how I knew Florida wasn't fucking around with gators.

 

[Lost]

This story is still sickening to me.

 

[Somnia]

I get why there will always be gators in Florida. But to have no fences etc up to stop gators getting close is fucked up

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There are now and no fence would actually stop a gator. The fences are built to keep us humans away from the water.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

I mean, gators have even gotten into Splash Mountain.

 

[MasterChumly]

The kid wasn't swimming.

And they weren't from Florida.

They were on a resort built to look like a beach. There was no cutoff to water access. The signs said no swimming because of a drop off. No mention of alligators at all.

That's the point of the numbers mentioned in the article. It's reasonable that if Disney is having to actively fighting to keep gators off their property constantly that they should take better and clearer precautions for the millions of people from around the world that go there.

I mean....after it happened, that's exactly what they did. It shouldn't have come to a kid dying to make that happen.

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This.

It's really been engrained in our society about the evil moochers suing the poor corporations. It's pretty clear Disney could have done a lot more. Why did Disney build a beach for kids to play on and watch movies if they so much as stepped in the water they could be fucking eaten by gators. A no swimming sign is a poor fucking excuse

 

[MrConbon210]

Well then time to move to somewhere where they have more control over the environment or really step up the education game and remind people the park is basically built on a wetland is less a magical fairytale land and more a wildlife preserve.

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I think it's a bit dismissive to suggest Disney to just move like its packing up the car and moving across the street. Orlando as a city and hell even Florida as a state relies heavily on Disney World for jobs and money. Disney World has over 62,000 employees who would be out of a job. The city would lose millions of dollars. You can't have Disney move. They make Florida what it is.

 

[LakeEarth]

I went to Orlando recently, and took a stop at Gatorland which was pretty neat. When I took a cab back to the hotel, I asked the driver if he'd ever been and he was like "no need, I see one every other week!". They really are everywhere.

 

[GaimeGuy]

To be fair, I would assume a resort, especially Disney, would be gator free.

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It's freshwater in Florida. Literally impossible

 

[Faust]

It's built on a swamp and aren't there signs too? People acting like this is some damaging evidence.

 

[ragingbegal]

It's freshwater in Florida. Literally impossible

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They're like pigeons. I think that's what people aren't getting.

 

[killerrin]

I mean, they were already actively removing as many as they could and they put signs everywhere. Realistically there's not much more they could have done.

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Pretty much. Only other thing I could think of would be that since Disney owns the entire municipalities in florida that its parks are in (populations are somewhere between 10-50 people) They could wall the entire area in, then go for a full on extermination of every gator within the premises.

Though it would be a ton of money to pull that off. Then again, they would certainly be able to afford it. You could also bet they would turn it into a positive and dual it up as an additional tourist destination. "The Great Wall of Disney"

 

[SchrodingerC]

Is this that surprising? It's Florida. If there's water, there's probably a gator in it.

I don't know if there's any realistic way to prevent gators from entering the grounds.

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Pretty much.
Since the entirety of Disney World is built on swamp lands, gators will just keep coming back.
Gators don't care if a body of water is a rentention pond or a big ass lake, they'll always be there.

 

[SchrodingerC]

Whoops, please delete.

 

[Beartruck]

Pretty much. Only other thing I could think of would be that since Disney owns the entire municipalities in florida that its parks are in (populations are somewhere between 10-50 people) They could wall the entire area in, then go for a full on extermination of every gator within the premises. Though it would be a ton of money to pull that off. Then again, they would certainly be able to afford it. You could also bet they would turn it into a positive to dual it up as an additional tourist destination. "The Great Wall of Disney"

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They're gonna build a wall and the gators will pay for it!

But seriously, a wall might help, especially with flooding. Probably way too impractical though.

 

[TDLink]

This.

It's really been engrained in our society about the evil moochers suing the poor corporations. It's pretty clear Disney could have done a lot more. Why did Disney build a beach for kids to play on and watch movies if they so much as stepped in the water they could be fucking eaten by gators. A no swimming sign is a poor fucking excuse

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keep in mind the resort, and the hotel where this occurred specifically, have been open and operating for 45 years and this is the only instance of something like this happening. It's very much parental negligence.

 

[Rayne]

This.

It's really been engrained in our society about the evil moochers suing the poor corporations. It's pretty clear Disney could have done a lot more. Why did Disney build a beach for kids to play on and watch movies if they so much as stepped in the water they could be fucking eaten by gators. A no swimming sign is a poor fucking excuse

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Yep it's insane. Deep drop off no swimming makes me think obviously it's a deep body of water and don't go swimming because they don't want to be responsible for your ass drowning. Saying there's fucking gators in the water is a different scenario.

And people can say "but it's Florida!" all they want. It's a goddamn tourist destination they know damn well a good amount of the people who visit that place aren't aware of the sheer amount of gators in the state. Thankfully they changed the signs so that's one good thing that came out of this tragedy.

 

[ahoyhoy]

keep in mind the resort, and the hotel where this occurred specifically, have been open and operating for 45 years and this is the only instance of something like this happening. It's very much parental negligence.

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So it has nothing to do with the ever increasing amount of gators being removed from the park?

Unless they just didn't care about the gators before, it seems like something has changed for there to be a higher gator population in the area and Disney probably knows about it.

 

[thecouncil]

 

[AndreGX]

And people can say "but it's Florida!" all they want. It's a goddamn tourist destination they know damn well a good amount of the people who visit that place aren't aware of the sheer amount of gators in the state. Thankfully they changed the signs so that's one good thing that came out of this tragedy.

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This. I'm a massive fan of Disney World and probably know more about the parks than a grown man should, but even I was surprised to learn how large the alligator population is on property. I've been 10+ times for a week each and have seen a gator maybe 2 or 3 times. It's not something that visitors who don't live in Florida would ever think about. Disney presents its world with a meticulous image; they provided little reason to expect something so dangerous could happen on property, even if the odds are low.

 

[Xita]

No shit.

It's Florida. Gators are everywhere, we coexist with them. As someone who lived in Florida for years the hysteria around alligators back when this story came out was hilarious. They just hang out in the water and barely move.

 

[potato]

As the father of a 2 year old boy, imagining what the boy went through breaks my heart.

We cant blame Disney on this, as it has been active in removing them, but god.