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WaPo: Disney knew its park was full of alligators. It caught hundreds before a boy was killed.
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
- Start date
Both. Gators are everywhere in Florida, it is 100% impossible to keep them out of areas. Disney removes them as they are found.
Walt Disney World is built in a swamp. No matter how many alligators you relocate there's always gonna be some in there. It's not something you can wholly prevent.
Disney has been working with the family behind the scenes, and there have been payments, including funds set up in the kid's name.
Unfortunate, but if Disney was callous or awful about this, the family would have spoken up - and they haven't.
Unfortunate, but if Disney was callous or awful about this, the family would have spoken up - and they haven't.
Disney World is like its own city, which gators are in.
This happened in the water near #3 & #4
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You need to understand how large of an area we are talking about here. The entirely of WDW property is 27,258 acres, 43 square miles. That's larger than major cities. About 30% of that is developed, and about 10-15% is being kept as wildlife preservation. That does include gators. Only about 1200 acres (1.6 Sq miles) is parks. The rest is resorts, backstage areas, shopping, offices, etc.
Seven Seas Lagoon, the man-made body of water where Grand Floridian sits against, where this happened, is 200 acres.
It would be virtually impossible to keep alligators out of areas that expansive. Especially when these areas are basiaclly surrounded on all sides by swamps. Alligators find their way in, and they are handled when they are found.
That pic doesnt do the size justice lol. This image is just Epcot in the middle.Disney World is like its own city, which gators are in.
This happened in the water near #3 & #4
Yeah, the parks are just a logo it in.
It also doesn't show all the parking areas and such, I just couldn't find anything better without a google maps image or something.
It also makes it look way more densely packed than it actually is. There's a ton of empty space between the parks and attractions where wildlife can roam freely.That pic doesnt do the size justice lol. This image is just Epcot in the middle.
How can it be impossible? Surely that place is completely fenced off apart from staff doors and the main entrance.
The parks themselves are fenced off but everywhere else is too large to control. They have their own roads and highways in Disney World with wilderness all along it.
The individual theme parks are. But Disney World as a whole is the size of a city and most of it is undeveloped.
Fences do not stop gators, they can also find other ways to get in through waterways and roads.
I think everyone saying Disney should do more to remove aligators or put up mile high fences haven't actually been to Disney or actually understand it's layout.
I'm five minutes from Disney, I could walk there and see easily 20 gators. I would also pass about 100 signs warning me of gators that have always been there.
Sure the sign at the incident didn't mention specifically Gators, but it did say no swimming. There is also no doubt in my mind the family passed numerous amount of signs saying there are aligators in the water.
Eventually common sense has to take over and companies can no longer be responsible.
This is the entirety of Disney property:
Here is the body of water in question:
That is the 7 Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake, a shared body of water. See the little circle part above the left hand side one? That's Magic Kingdom. That body of water is bordered on all sides by undeveloped land, and is HUGE. Grand Floridian, where this occurred, is on the left side with the orange roofs.
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Here's a wetland map of the area around Disney; AKA alligator habitat.
Nobody is designing a system to remove or limit alligator migration into or around the park. It's not possible or reasonable to expect.
EDIT: And apparently I didn't even hit the area of the attack.
It's fucking Florida -- there are gators everywhere. It's not Disney's fault that an indigenous species that belongs there did what gators do.
It is Disney's fault for not having signs up and allowing access to the water's edge.
I understand people that aren't from the region get freaked out, but it is normal and natural. They really don't bother people that are properly educated. Floridians know to keep small children and pets are kept away from the shore of lakes and rivers.
Disney should have done better to inform guests and to prevent them from putting themselves in danger.
It is Disney's fault for not having signs up and allowing access to the water's edge.
I understand people that aren't from the region get freaked out, but it is normal and natural. They really don't bother people that are properly educated. Floridians know to keep small children and pets are kept away from the shore of lakes and rivers.
Disney should have done better to inform guests and to prevent them from putting themselves in danger.
Disney World is like its own city, which gators are in.
This happened in the water near #3 & #4
The entire thing is about the size of San Francisco from what I have been told.
This was an unusual, tragic situation.
It's good that they put up the new signs warning about the alligators. In the future, Disney should fire any employee caught feeding them (it's illegal anyway). As long as they place the appropriate signage and relocate animals, I don't think there's much else Disney specifically can do.
Keeping alligators out of a park in Florida would be like trying to keep sharks out of the ocean next to a popular beach.
Alligators don't necessarily burrow but they can definitely dig quite well. They'll dig holes during dry spells to preserve water. (As already been stated, they can climb well too.)
Alligators are a natural part of the ecosystem in the southeast United States. They aren't particularly aggressive. You give them their space and no one gets hurt. Attacks like this one are quite rare.
It's good that they put up the new signs warning about the alligators. In the future, Disney should fire any employee caught feeding them (it's illegal anyway). As long as they place the appropriate signage and relocate animals, I don't think there's much else Disney specifically can do.
Keeping alligators out of a park in Florida would be like trying to keep sharks out of the ocean next to a popular beach.
Alligators don't necessarily burrow but they can definitely dig quite well. They'll dig holes during dry spells to preserve water. (As already been stated, they can climb well too.)
Alligators are a natural part of the ecosystem in the southeast United States. They aren't particularly aggressive. You give them their space and no one gets hurt. Attacks like this one are quite rare.
What concerns me here is that small mammals, such as human babies, are likely to be attractive food for a larger alligator.
Taking on board what you and others have said about the digging and climbing skills of alligators, it does seem to me that Disney could still take action to fence off bodies of water so that at least children wouldn't be physically capable of approaching close to the edge or even entering the water. Granted that alligators could still attack on dry land, fencing as a way to keep children from dangerous and unfamiliar environments seems like a reasonable step to take, while the kids are actually on the premises.
They've done this already. Bodies of water have a rock barrier near the water and then a rope fence to keep people back away from the water.
This is my take on it. It's Florida. It isn't even feasible to block off all the waterways in and around the park. The park is fucking massive. And animals trying to survive and following instinct will always find ways to get around blocks. I know it's silly and trite, but life really, really does find a way. Yes, Disney should have had better gator warnings, and now they do. But really, if people are visiting a state or country they have never been to before, they need to do their own research to be aware of the dangers. Thinking an amusement park is safe and nature-free because you've ignorantly come to that conclusion on your own isn't the park's fault.
This is the entirety of Disney property:
Here is the body of water in question:
That is the 7 Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake, a shared body of water. See the little circle part above the left hand side one? That's Magic Kingdom. That body of water is bordered on all sides by undeveloped land, and is HUGE. Grand Floridian, where this occurred, is on the left side with the orange roofs.
Well shit that's a lot bigger than I thought.
Ive seen a gator between Frontierland and Liberty Square. Not a big one, and Im sure it was taken care of, but they are there. I dont blame people for letting their guard down though, it happens at Disney World. Their Magical Express picks you up at the airport, they bring you your bags later, its all a very automated thing that lets you get caught up in the magic. At one point, there was a wave machine near the Polynesian, and swimming was initially allowed in the Seven Seas Lagoon.
Be fair, the wave machine lasted a few weeks before it caused too much erosion to the beach at the Poly and was turned off for good.
And don't forget River Country, which was connected to and used water from Bay Lake.
You can't fence off all water -- the deer and other animals in the area need access to it, as well. If someone's baby is near the water, that is on the parents. Signs and appropriate barriers should be enough, after that, it's all down to personal responsibility.
To be honest, microorganisms in lakes and ponds in Florida are way more dangerous that gators. No smart parents should let infants or toddlers anywhere near standing bodies of water.
This thread has reminded me I need to buy a gun.
Alligators, snakes, bears and sharks. I live in a dangerous place.
oh yeah spiders. Gotta unload a full clip and burn the whole house down for those.
Alligators, snakes, bears and sharks. I live in a dangerous place.
oh yeah spiders. Gotta unload a full clip and burn the whole house down for those.
I've seen the same gator. Maybe three feet long. He's been moved.
Before the parents left their kid near water at night.
Yeah. Swimming was still allowed after to some extent though.
Not to be rude, but I'm pretty sure Disney himself was fully aware that the area he was scoping out was likely full of alligators when he decided to have WDW built in the middle of Florida. It is unfortunate that the attack happened as it did, but it isn't like this has become a wide end story of increased alligator attacks on park guests.
Drowning would be my main concern. It's one of the most common causes of death for kids under 4. The water doesn't even have to be that deep.
I remember River Country. Still the only Disney water park I've actually been to. I don't think it was gators so much as the unsanitary water that led to it being shut down, wasn't it?
I think a lot of people visiting out of state must think Disney World exists in a bubble. That specific area was picked because the land was dirt cheap at the time. It's a gator infested swamp. Besides the insides of the parks the resorts are pretty open to the environment, especially those resorts in the Magic Kingdom vicinity.
Also these gators started to grow less fearful of humans due to ignorant guests feeding them from bungalows around the Polynesian Resort, which is right next to the Grand Floridian were the attack happened. Disney does tell you "not to feed them" but it doesn't stop some guests from throwing pieces of chicken at them.
Also these gators started to grow less fearful of humans due to ignorant guests feeding them from bungalows around the Polynesian Resort, which is right next to the Grand Floridian were the attack happened. Disney does tell you "not to feed them" but it doesn't stop some guests from throwing pieces of chicken at them.
I feel terrible for the family because this is obviously a nightmare, but it doesn't follow that this is Disney's fault. Like a million other folks have said, this is Florida we're talking about, and there are gators everywhere. It's honestly not much different that going to Yellowstone and getting attacked by a bear or going to Arizona and getting bitten by a rattlesnake. Some parts of the country have dangerous wildlife.
