yet people want to gaslight there are no good PoC VAs. It's not always deliberate but it happens enough that says it is built into the industry.
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Wargroove (Chucklefish) is receiving criticism for casting white actors for its POC characters(Dev respond, see threadmark)
- Thread starter GSR
- Start date
Even among non-union actors, Funimation is helping prove that options do exist for actors of color (baby steps, true, but it's at least progress). Likewise, the SAG-AFTRA is offering options for indie developers to unionize their games, which opens up the developers' options for voice talent.
People are bringing attention to it by quote tweeting it, which doesn't really show in the stats there. And those quote tweets then sometimes have more retweets/likes than the original tweet.
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I don't see what's wrong with that take to be honest, IF the selection was based on merit alone and the opportunity was presented to everyone regardless of race/color equally and they simple chose the best one for the job. However, we have no way of verifying whether the latter is true and based on past trends, it's ... quite unlikely that it was the case.
Most white people absolutely uncritically buy into this meritocacy bullshit.
I rarely see a black character voiced by a black VA. Diversity in gaming still has a LONG way to go.
You can add Erica Luttrell to the list, the voice of Emily Kaldwin in Dishonored 2 and recently Bangalore in Apex Legends.
This is a poor take and a reductive way of thinking, since it implies that companies should not invest in diversifying their teams.
Why? I can't change the industry in my present form I just believe what I stated.
I wonder when a kickback will have companies taking notice.
Motion capture always strikes me as next level. Ya got Infamous Second Son out here with Troy Baker's skin darkened to appear native American as Delsin, and Laura Bailey as Nadine from Uncharted... That's the harm that comes from the same circle of VAs leading every game.
Motion capture always strikes me as next level. Ya got Infamous Second Son out here with Troy Baker's skin darkened to appear native American as Delsin, and Laura Bailey as Nadine from Uncharted... That's the harm that comes from the same circle of VAs leading every game.
How so, please elaborate further, I'm genuinely curious. I fully acknowledge we are severely lacking in term of equal representation and equal opportunity but I honestly don't see a problem with the above way of thinking (despite its not contributing/helping us in coming to a solution for the problem we are facing).
Unfortunate. It isn't a strict requirement for all voices to be performed by individuals from the same (or equivalent) ethnicity, nor do I believe this particular case was malicious, but the fact they don't have any matching actors or actresses among this DLC group is definitely a bad look. People should point this out in order to hopefully influence future improvements.
Your post implies that companies should not invest in diversifying their teams. Just having sufficient enough skills in voice acting doesn't mean you should now voice of Black, Asian, or Brown characters. I love Phil LaMarr, but he should not voice an Asian character when we can get Asian voice actors.
And most importantly your post implies that people are discussing whether a demographic CAN voice another one. When the discussion is whether a demographic SHOULD voice another one. Those are separate conversations and conflating the two is reductive.
Also, I never asked you to change anything.
I love Phil LaMarr, but he should not voice an Asian character when we can get Asian voice actors. => Why? In the case where the Asian voice actors won't be able to give a comparable performance to Phil LaMarr, why should he get the job over the better guy in this case? If they are of the same quality then I'm all for the Asian voice actor to take the job.
I don't know but your way of thinking kind of reminds me of the system we have in my home country, where people of minority race or from certain regions received bonus marks in national exams simply thanks to the race/address in their ID card. Most of the time, the people in these regions really do benefit/justify receiving this help because the education facilities/access they have is truly lacking compare to folks in the cities, but there are also cases where rich folks from those regions, who received an even better education than some of us, get a free pass and an easier time thanks to such system.
That's all fine and dandy in a vacuum, but history suggests it's naive to assume PoC actors were given a chance to begin with. It's suspicious when not even any white characters are voiced by PoC actors.
Laura wasn't even made aware of Nadine's actual design until well after she was already cast. it's 100% on Naughty Dog for not going for a actress of color from the start
Sounds like you will first need to answer some questions:
Do you value diversity and understanding why diversity is a strength to organizations?
and
Do you think Phil LaMarr could accurately represent an Asian character better than an Asian voice actor?
That's fair, I didn't know it was huge problem any other companies have a history of it? I know ND got into some trouble.
Yes and Why not
Let's just assume in this discussion, as a continuation to whatever we discussed previously, the Asian dude performance is slightly worse than Phil.
Ultimately, I think it boils down to you willing to accept a worse performance to promote diversity because at the moment, we simply do not have enough diversity around and equal opportunity is not something that we have yet, hence some form of intervention is required to promote greater diversity than whatever we have currently. This is fair, and I agree with that as well.
However, I still don't think meritocracy, get the best man for the job regardless of race/colour/religion is a wrong mindset to have. Instead, like Lumi said above, this mindset only work in vacuum, as our current climate is nowhere near ideal. So instead of saying/claiming that mindset is wrong, it is much more constructive to say something along the line of " Yes, you are right, but in our current climate, it is not feasible yet, we are still a long way from diversity so we need to do this and that etc". By rejecting it outright, imo it really doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and it is hard to convince people why we need more diversity/intervention now.
okay i'll just ask
is this a subtweet about samurai jack or just a hypothetical
What show(?) is this?it's not a game though :(
This is how it's done right folks:
As someone who has seen amazing success in prestigious institutes and organizations, I can tell you that meritocracy rarely exists and the lack of investment in finding diverse candidates prevents teams from finding "the best person." So no. The mindset is wrong and false, and you would have to suspend your disbelief (i.e., believe in meritocracy) to believe that there is an individual who is best to represent another demographic over someone of that demographic.
Purely hypothetical.
Sure man, good luck trying to convince anyone to follow your cause with that tone and mindset. And FYI, I myself is a person from a minority race in both the company and the country I'm working in and I have also seen both the good and bad way of doing diversification in the companies I had the chance of working with.
Black voice actors need to get paid. If they're not being cast to play white characters then they should be sought out to play black characters.
Darn, another "ally" lost due to not being able to handle being wrong
It's always so interesting how people are 100% sure of the "tone" of a post that weakens their argument. Meh.
It's not really that, I just find that you didn't provide me with any legitimate reasons why I am wrong beside your own anecdotal experience, which is different than my own. In a way, what I am reading from you is that you are telling me is that I am wrong because you say so, your experience and opinion is the only correct one, and I can't question why, I just need to follow it.
Believing in meritocracy and at the same time, acknowledging that it doesn't work in real world at the moment doesn't contradict each other you know?
if only POC's tones were better, then we could've kept an ally
LaMarr is an insanely talented and experienced voice actor so he's not that easy to replace regardless of race or ethnicity. And POC like Phil would find it a lot harder to get work if they were limited to black roles because there aren't as many of them.
I'm not seeing why this is as much of a problem, compared to say, whitewashing POC characters in movies where you can see the actual person?
like I think it's a whole separate problem from diversifying VAs. If it's just a voice, POC should be able to voice white people and vice versa depending on the voice direction of the character and if the VA matches it.
Plus this inherently limits POC voice actors if matching a character's race with a VA's race becomes the standard because there are way WAY less POC characters in games then there are white characters. If we started doing that we wouldn't have the iconic chris judge Kratos VA for example.
More diversity in game characters and more diversity in voice actors don't need to be dependent on eachother I think.
That said if they really did not hold auditions and give POC actors a chance to get the role then that is pretty fucked
like I think it's a whole separate problem from diversifying VAs. If it's just a voice, POC should be able to voice white people and vice versa depending on the voice direction of the character and if the VA matches it.
Plus this inherently limits POC voice actors if matching a character's race with a VA's race becomes the standard because there are way WAY less POC characters in games then there are white characters. If we started doing that we wouldn't have the iconic chris judge Kratos VA for example.
More diversity in game characters and more diversity in voice actors don't need to be dependent on eachother I think.
That said if they really did not hold auditions and give POC actors a chance to get the role then that is pretty fucked
Correct.
Voice talent is in the voices, not the headshots. If you want to lobby for more equitable opportunities for minorities in the industry, asking for VAs to match their characters in appearance or identity is precisely the kind of short-term thinking equivalent to an own goal. The risk of making any concessions to racial essentialism is that the supremacists will always turn it against you in the end. You should instead be lobbying for anybody to play anybody. Ask for more non-white performers to play white-presenting characters. Throw out the whole spurious belief that any correlation should exist. To demand the very opposite is counterproductive and anti-cosmopolitan.
It's a beginner's mistake to think that short-term conveniences like this will create the equitable society you actually want, when in fact they undermine the foundations of our best defence against the bigots.
tbh as someone that aint white if they get the job done thats really all that matters to me.
Dont really care if the person that goes "uug" when the character gets hit is white, black, hispanic, asian etc
Dont really care if the person that goes "uug" when the character gets hit is white, black, hispanic, asian etc
I have genuinely got no idea how you make a post like that and don't see how it's gonna blow up.
two things about this post I want to address. Firstly I agree that the industry should audition POC actors to play white characters but is this something that happens? I'm going to bet on it is not very common and in that case, if there are POC characters then POC voice actors need to be sought out to play them.
the second thing is diversity isn't just about recognition or in this case representation it's also about redistribution. It's one thing to have diverse content but are diverse people actually getting paid for it?
it's not a game though :(
This is how it's done right folks:
- Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters.
- Created by Spectacular Spiderman alumni
- 2 seasons on Netflix
On topic: This is a great example accurate voice actor portrayals.
No one plays a one-dimensional stereotype, and each character receives development.