and people wonder why nobody discusses racism on gaming side
everything is perfect and all roles are given to those who properly earned it
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Wargroove (Chucklefish) is receiving criticism for casting white actors for its POC characters(Dev respond, see threadmark)
- Thread starter GSR
- Start date
everything is perfect and all roles are given to those who properly earned it
For your first paragraph, yeah that's the definitely the more overarching problem, I think. Like this tweet
I think creating the opportunity for POC Voice Actors to audition for more roles in general would lead to more progress quicker in the area you mentioned in your second paragraph about more diverse people being paid.
Because I also think QuixoticNeutral brings up a good point that I could'nt really verbalize in my initial post. Making the distinction like this only arms bigots with the "well only white people should be cast as white people then!" Which again, doesn't fix the problem as there are way more white characters currently in games than of any other race.
This all being said, I think this problem goes even further in gaming than just White people being cast. It's the SAME white people being cast for big roles. Troy Baker, Laura Bailey etc. Pushing the focus more on more POC VAs in general would also help fix this.
Nothing against the VAs themselves, but seriously, you can't find someone of that cultural background to do that voiceover?
Or is it a case that the POC characters are so stereotyped that no POC wanted to take the gig because it's degrading?
Or is it a case that the POC characters are so stereotyped that no POC wanted to take the gig because it's degrading?
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing concerns of minority representation across multiple posts, inflammatory comparison in a sensitive thread, account still in junior phase
And people wonder why Trump is voted in office. Hey, we have almost half of US population believing his rhetoric. In a democracy, your vote and those people you are disagree with carry the same weight you know, so instead of dismissing them outright, it's better to educate and engage with them in a conversation to gain a supporter for your cause and at the same time, reduce the other side number of vote. But oh well, you do you I guess, continue staying in your high castle and look down on us stupid people.
This is such a bad look. Funny how it nearly never happens the other way around too.
Anyway, I hated wargroove and already regretted purchasing it before that...
Anyway, I hated wargroove and already regretted purchasing it before that...
you have an opportunity to engage with and listen to people who disagree with you on this very topic right now yet you choose to get into meta-debates
Eh no, I'm reading and digesting your post and Phendrift, great points raised by both of you btw, you guys are putting whatever I'm thinking in a much better way than I ever can so I'm just here refreshing to see your conversation. It's people like Beef, Darryl and Skittes that I find amusing and contribute nothing of value to the discussion at hand (and my post too I admit ... imma stop ..)
first off, what in THEE fuck does trumpito have to do with this
secondly, it is not the job of the oppressed to educate the oppressors
and finally, miss me with that tone police bullshit
Homie is booty bothered because he has a shallow understanding of diversity and reality. Lol he can eat my whole ass with that tone policing.
User Banned (Duration Pending): Tone policing and dismissing concerns of representation in a sensitive thread, concern trolling, a similar history of dismissiveness
I don't think anyone in the right mind is saying diversity or having more people of color performing as voice actors, is a bad thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe this was done intentionally by the developers. We also don't know if the voices were recorded before characters were finalized.
Now, before I continue, there is something I've wanted to address on ERA for a very long time. I know a lot of you may take this the wrong way, but I will say it anyway because I'm tired of keeping my mouth shut and being afraid of getting reprimanded by the staff.
Everyone here should be able to speak their mind, as long as they are making an honest attempt to discuss in good faith. Now, what is "good faith" exactly? To me, it's presenting an idea with the intention to genuinely inform your audience. The illustration of that idea's foundations, core principles and it's relation within the context of the discussion.
But the key factor of being within "good faith" is knowing wholeheartedly that the individual isn't coming from a place of malice or ill will. There's no noticeable sense of hostility or indignation. They merely just want to get their point across. There's simply no other agenda or motivation beyond trying to generate more understanding of their point of view.
Anyway, with all of that aside, we can demand more inclusion without immediately demonizing or putting unnecessary blame on those we are trying to address and educate. That doesn't mean one has to grovel or uphold a subservient disposition. I will note that those advocating social justice and reform are often told to be more polite, or worse, not question the status quo in the first place.
All I'm saying is that there is an effective method to address your point objectively, without being distracted or diluting your own message with misguided emotions or tone.
Also, one thing you want to avoid is having people of color eventually being type casted and pigeon holed into singular roles. For instance, I'd hate to see black actors only being considered and offered roles solely for black characters and nothing else. Or Asian actors exclusively only being considered for Asian characters and nothing beyond that.
Ideally, anyone should be free to provide voice talent for any character, assuming they have the talent, and the process in which each person is assessed is fair.
Now, before I continue, there is something I've wanted to address on ERA for a very long time. I know a lot of you may take this the wrong way, but I will say it anyway because I'm tired of keeping my mouth shut and being afraid of getting reprimanded by the staff.
Everyone here should be able to speak their mind, as long as they are making an honest attempt to discuss in good faith. Now, what is "good faith" exactly? To me, it's presenting an idea with the intention to genuinely inform your audience. The illustration of that idea's foundations, core principles and it's relation within the context of the discussion.
But the key factor of being within "good faith" is knowing wholeheartedly that the individual isn't coming from a place of malice or ill will. There's no noticeable sense of hostility or indignation. They merely just want to get their point across. There's simply no other agenda or motivation beyond trying to generate more understanding of their point of view.
Anyway, with all of that aside, we can demand more inclusion without immediately demonizing or putting unnecessary blame on those we are trying to address and educate. That doesn't mean one has to grovel or uphold a subservient disposition. I will note that those advocating social justice and reform are often told to be more polite, or worse, not question the status quo in the first place.
All I'm saying is that there is an effective method to address your point objectively, without being distracted or diluting your own message with misguided emotions or tone.
Also, one thing you want to avoid is having people of color eventually being type casted and pigeon holed into singular roles. For instance, I'd hate to see black actors only being considered and offered roles solely for black characters and nothing else. Or Asian actors exclusively only being considered for Asian characters and nothing beyond that.
Ideally, anyone should be free to provide voice talent for any character, assuming they have the talent, and the process in which each person is assessed is fair.
In a perfect reality there would be enough diversity for everyone to get work, but in the actual real world the attitude that the race/ethnicity has to align with that of the VA hurts POC more than it helps.
And of course situations like this hurts them as well.
Exactly. Theoretically fine, but still disappointing.
I'll take PoC characters with white voice actors over no PoC characters, but it feels like a wasted opportunity.
Wait what?
The first you hear about Chloe being part Indian and not just Australian like Claudia Black is 8 years and 3 games after she was introduced.
Sure, be upset over Nadine, but if you want to blame Naughty Dog for Chloe you may as well blame them for making her part Indian, and not for casting an Australian actress as an Australian character.
I am. I don't work a ton anymore, but I did League of Legends, Danganronpa, and a few other relatively major stuff. Ask away!
User Banned (Permanent): racist whataboutism, inflammatory racist commentary
I only see this as a problem if they deliberately dismissed POC for the job. I don't think people have black, brown or white colored voices except if you want to fall into caricature. Should we be up in arms because Kratos' voice is performed by POCs and not greek people? Having POC visual representation seems much more important and that's what we got here, right?
And so they should.
In an ideal world, anyone should be able to voice any character. Problem is, we're in far from an ideal world and as such POC receive far less representation in games overall and in most workplaces in general.
All POC roles need to be played by POC, it's kind of non-negotiable. There are plenty of roles that white voice actors can be cast for as that's what most game characters are represented as.
In an ideal world, anyone should be able to voice any character. Problem is, we're in far from an ideal world and as such POC receive far less representation in games overall and in most workplaces in general.
All POC roles need to be played by POC, it's kind of non-negotiable. There are plenty of roles that white voice actors can be cast for as that's what most game characters are represented as.
Love the "best person for the job" posts. As if the decision was made after years of diligent searching that only these casted actors can deliver the gravitas necessary for Wargroove dialogue. Role of a lifetime that they'll always be remembered for, I'm sure
User Banned (3 Months): racist false equivalence and inflammatory commentary
The thing I love about voice acting is that anyone can play any part and you won't know it by the voice.
But then you get nonsense like this where people are looking for something to be upset over.
Women play men, men play women, you don't have to be the exact character you're playing.
Sorry this just doesn't seem like a problem to me because this has been going on, in all directions, for years and years now. All kinds of characters are voiced by people you wouldn't expect who might not match the sex, race, sexuality, or even the species of what character part they are playing.
I know people like to get upset over this but come on people, it's voice acting and this is nothing new.
Women play men, men play women, people of color play white characters, and so on.
But then you get nonsense like this where people are looking for something to be upset over.
Women play men, men play women, you don't have to be the exact character you're playing.
Sorry this just doesn't seem like a problem to me because this has been going on, in all directions, for years and years now. All kinds of characters are voiced by people you wouldn't expect who might not match the sex, race, sexuality, or even the species of what character part they are playing.
I know people like to get upset over this but come on people, it's voice acting and this is nothing new.
Women play men, men play women, people of color play white characters, and so on.
So just because it's been happening for years means it's not worth changing and improving upon?
I mean, they still have to get to a studio and do the recording, not sure what good a suitable VA 2000 miles away does in that scenario? Just because this can be done remotely doesn't mean every company wants to do it that way.
I see this as a problem if certain candidates were dismissed from the get go, not been given a chance to maybe even audition, but not if a creative decision led to this outcome after having seen everyone and what they have to fofer.
My point is it isn't really a problem like it is in live action casting and so forth. This road has operated in both directions for years and years now, that's the beauty of voice acting is anyone can play any part and isn't restricted by physical appearance or capabilities like one is in live action.
I mean I don't see Nancy Cartwright running around doing the shit Bart Simpson does. I can't imagine Kevin Conroy actually being Batman. Masako Nozawa doesn't make me think of Goku when I look at her. Phil LaMarr definitely doesn't look like samurai from Feudal era Japan. Lauren Tom doesn't look like several of the DC characters she plays including Jinx. Look you get the idea.
That's what great thing about voice acting is anyone can be anyone/anything. The limit is how much you can emote with your voice and as many live action actors have attested to it's a lot harder than it looks and for those doing a multitude of voices it's even harder.
Seems weird to me to tell someone they can't voice a character, in an industry which has regularly employed all walks, shapes, sizes, and what have you to play all kinds of roles. Some of the biggest characters in pop culture aren't voiced by a white dude like you would think.
User Banned (permanent): Dismissing concerns of representation, history of severe infractions
Not this again... VA actors are not seen or chosen after being seen, it's all in the voice.
There countless examples of black people voicing white people, Asian doing white, black doing Asian etc
It's a voice. Unless they are doing an African american or african accent, it's not racist.
It's not even a discussion of casting more POC, if I am not mistaken in that industry we do not see the same as in Hollywood etc, due to the fact that voices are chosen and not people
Still, really dumb presentation by the developer here.
There countless examples of black people voicing white people, Asian doing white, black doing Asian etc
It's a voice. Unless they are doing an African american or african accent, it's not racist.
It's not even a discussion of casting more POC, if I am not mistaken in that industry we do not see the same as in Hollywood etc, due to the fact that voices are chosen and not people
Still, really dumb presentation by the developer here.
I don't think a VA's race should necessarily match the character they're voicing, as it doesn't need to match any other physical feature. Saying that, there's clearly a problem of lack of diversity that should and needs to be addressed, there's no possibility of there not being better actors for any of those roles that happened to also be POC. And seeing how the cast in the rest of the game seems do be overwhelmingly white we have a problem and this product should not be supported as it is.
Funny you should mention Jinx, Jinx was originally a black character.
It should be equally a problem if they are not casting POC voice actors for POC characters.
Pretty tonedeaf of them to announce it in that way, with pictures side by side. Makes it look a way I'm guessing they didn't intend.
When looking for talent for my indie game, I use Voices.com. A seemingly great resource, but if I search for 'Male, 34-55, African', 90% of their search results are white. This isn't just isolated to Voices.com though, almost all the voice sites I visit are streams of middle age white guys.
Anyway, my current game is all over the place with its casting.
White character -> Asian American actor
Asian character -> White actor
Middle Eastern character -> African American actor
African character -> Not yet hired. I've had 80+ auditions and nobody has hit the mark yet.
Anyway, my current game is all over the place with its casting.
White character -> Asian American actor
Asian character -> White actor
Middle Eastern character -> African American actor
African character -> Not yet hired. I've had 80+ auditions and nobody has hit the mark yet.
I'm just gonna leave this here for y'all
Edit: On second thought this probably just comes across as insensitive.
I'll just say give more voice acting rolls to minority actors.
I'll just say give more voice acting rolls to minority actors.
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Well that's gonna be a huge help! Thanks Tizoc!I'm just gonna leave this here for y'all
I don't care who play who, for exemple if the same amount of black actors played white characters it would be fine since they would get the same opportunity in the end
Sadly it's not the case here apparently? There's only one black voice actor in the whole cast from what i was able to gather
While i agree that only the voice should matter, the problem is it happens way more often that white people play minorities than the opposite.... Minorities don't get the same opportunities in the industry and that's what matters
Sadly it's not the case here apparently? There's only one black voice actor in the whole cast from what i was able to gather
While i agree that only the voice should matter, the problem is it happens way more often that white people play minorities than the opposite.... Minorities don't get the same opportunities in the industry and that's what matters
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User banned (permanent): racist trolling
Poc?
You guys seriously still use that racist term? Sigh, seriously the US needs to catch up to the rest of the world on a lot of ways. In Europe, that term isn't accepted anymore and hasn't been for years and years.
Everyone has a colour and so I don't understand the term. So pink sn't a colour now? Also it's not nice for the non Caucasians too. Seriously, it's offensive and probably should warrant a warning.
You guys seriously still use that racist term? Sigh, seriously the US needs to catch up to the rest of the world on a lot of ways. In Europe, that term isn't accepted anymore and hasn't been for years and years.
Everyone has a colour and so I don't understand the term. So pink sn't a colour now? Also it's not nice for the non Caucasians too. Seriously, it's offensive and probably should warrant a warning.
Heya, European here. What are you talking about? Did I miss a memo from Brussels or some shit like that?
All I know is that us Europeans prefer to be xenophobic first and racist later, so the term of PoC doesn't appear as much as us Europeans are rather occupied first with hating people based on which country they are from. Google ain't yielding any results either so an explaination would be much appreciated here.
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Naturally.
Gaming side isn't equiped to talk about anything social issues related.
Also, there is no such thing as meritocracy. I wish peoplw would get this through their head.
Then for example would you be fine if a random tattoo artist with no law experience whatsoever became a politician?
Where in Europe are you from? In the UK at least, POC is perfectly acceptable. "Coloured" a lot less so.
More on topic. Ehh if this is the same as the rest of the VA from the rest of the game, just consisting of grunts and shouts, I'm not seeing this as a huge deal.
This shit needs to be called out every time, diversity in gaming is still a white dominated farce. Not even surprised to see gaming side handwaving this away as usual, it's all so tiresome and predictable.
tbh, i dont see an issue. Isn't nadine's voice actress not a POC?
People complained about this too. So yes a lot of people still see it as an issue.
Reading any thread on this board about the usage of the word nigga in rap music followed by a million European posters twisting themselves in knots trying to justify saying it signals to me, naw fam. Just stick to the topic at hand.
No one asked you to understand. Use the internet you're typing from if you don't get it. The discussion doesn't revolve around you understanding, educate yourself.
I know this is more sarcastic; but that point leads into something else; if the VA industry seems to be putting less of a focus on possibly up-and-coming PoC actors (to no fault of Chucklefish), and the alternative is "well just get Phil LaMarr/Keith David/etc," how are they actually supposed to put up money to pay these bigger actors? And if they don't have the money to do it, are they.... just supposed to not have PoC characters?
"Give more roles to minority voice actors" is ideal, and something that should be happening definitely. But I'm going to put this more on the VA community (i.e., the voice director the team happened to retain for this project) at large for not only letting things get like this, but continue to perpetuate this situation in the first place rather than an indie developer somehow purposely doing this