My argument isn't resting on how difficult it may or may not be. As you seem to understand, taking a color blind approach will lead to such outcomes especially when diversity is the goal.It is very difficult to reach equity. The only way imo is that we must create the tools so everyone has the same opportunities and then choose the one that fits without prejudging.
Even choosing blindly doesn't work to by only looking at the results we are also prejudging the ones that got the job in this case
Correct.
Well, then there's much the Dev can do. The problem is not the Dev. The problem is that we need to create an environment where anyone can reach their goals regardless of the, color, sex or even economical status.The problem is that in an industry where the overwhelming majority is white, a "colour blind" approach is bound to result in mostly, or all, white actors.
They purposely took a color blind approach on characters of color and then promoted the white voice actors on a public platform. They are to blame.Well, then there's much the Dev can do. The problem is not the Dev. The problem is that we need to create an environment where anyone can reach their goals regardless of the, color, sex or even economical status.
And that hasn't been done. And when done, it will take time. Instead of blaming the Dev, unless there's clear proof of discrimination, maybe focusing efforts in the roots of the problem may help.
The root of the problem is the subconscious bias and seeing white as the default. In that case then a concious effort from everyone involved needs to happen. Something like...affirmative action.Well, then there's much the Dev can do. The problem is not the Dev. The problem is that we need to create an environment where anyone can reach their goals regardless of the, color, sex or even economical status.
And that hasn't been done. And when done, it will take time. Instead of blaming the Dev, unless there's clear proof of discrimination, maybe focusing efforts in the roots of the problem may help.
Well, they tried something at least. It is not the best way to people diversity? Sure. But seems a fair way to choose the best candidate without prejudices. The problem here is criticising the Dev that at least tried something, and then do nothing with the underlying reasons that lead to limited diversity.My argument isn't resting on how difficult it may or may not be. As you seem to understand, taking a color blind approach will lead to such outcomes especially when diversity is the goal.
The problem is that the ratio of POc voicing white characters is decidedly lopsided to one side. If it was closer then I'm with you but this is obviously not the case.People of color sometimes voice white characters in video games. I don't really see the issue here to be honest. They chose the best actors for the job, based on voice not color.
The majority of characters are White.People of color sometimes voice white characters in video games. I don't really see the issue here to be honest. They chose the best actors for the job, based on voice not color.
For every one you give me, I'll give you 5 for the opposite and that's being easy on you. Go.People of color sometimes voice white characters in video games. I don't really see the issue here to be honest. They chose the best actors for the job, based on voice not color.
Well, don't know about the devs, but since i am white and live in a mainly white population country, seeing white as default seems natural and nothing wrong. If i was a dev i would probably also create things related to my own experiences so a potential protagonist would be white. Same could be said for someone with another skin colour in another place. Some things are natural. The problem is, maybe, that most devs are from historically , countries with mainly white population, so until we get more devs (and that also applies to any job really) that have grown in more varied populations we probably won't have that reflected in their creations.The root of the problem is the subconscious bias and seeing white as the default. In that case then a concious effort from everyone involved needs to happen. Something like...affirmative action.
This has been a problem for a while in the games industry. Also recently:
As much as I loved Judgment, like come on lol
At least they got Greg Chun to voice the main character
Not to sound like I'm attacking you but this is exactly the problem right here. You are privileged enough not to worry about this. But in a country like the UK and the USA, this is a very real thing and the devs and industry in those respective countries have no excuses especially since minorities are a very sizable portion of thier respective populations. These countries have historically made conscious attempts at limiting minorities' socioeconomic status as well so it's not like they can just claim that this is something new for thier societies.Well, don't know about the devs, but since i am white and live in a mainly white population country, seeing white as default seems natural and nothing wrong. If i was a dev i would probably also create things related to my own experiences so a potential protagonist would be white. Same could be said for someone with another skin colour in another place. Some things are natural. The problem is, maybe, that most devs are from historically , countries with mainly white population, so until we get more devs (and that also applies to any job really) that have grown in more varied populations we probably won't have that reflected in their creations.
Why the fuck would you blindly pick the VA using only audio files? Is that common in the industry?
It should be equally a problem if they are not casting POC voice actors for POC characters.
While i agree that only the voice should matter, the problem is it happens way more often that white people play minorities than the opposite.... Minorities don't get the same opportunities in the industry and that's what matters
Why the fuck would you blindly pick the VA using only audio files? Is that common in the industry?
It clearly wasn't a good approach.Why would you pick a voice actor using their voice samples? Is that really a question?
I'm fine with that approach, especially the 'removing their past work' from it - as hopefully it'll mean different people getting roles. Most VA don't have a clue what colour their character's skin is anyway - they get a very small brief on them in most cases. Like 'old, crotchety, smoker's rasp' or 'young, bubbly, full of energy' and let them run with it.
This is a major issue that needs to be addressed. The problem is that there are so many issues that we lose track of priority ranking.I wouldn't care if a POC voiced a white person. I'm all for equality for race and gender but sometimes I feel people just try to look and find racism/discrimination for every little thing. True equality means that this issue shouldn't be a big deal.
More power to y'all who stand up and fight against true racist/discrimination issues but this ain't it.
White males feel like they are being attacked(political BS) and I am glad that you have the balls to write this. No one is attacking anyone, we just want a fair shot is all. The same can be said about the tech industry. All we want is the same chance that you get. Don't give them the job because their father or mother works there.Well, don't know about the devs, but since i am white and live in a mainly white population country, seeing white as default seems natural and nothing wrong. If i was a dev i would probably also create things related to my own experiences so a potential protagonist would be white. Same could be said for someone with another skin colour in another place. Some things are natural.
The main problem here is that most minority actors will not get the opportunity to even get work in the first place to get the experience, get exposed to mentors, get the connections and all the other things that white actors typically take for granted and are privileged to have.Why would you pick a voice actor using their voice samples? Is that really a question?
I'm fine with that approach, especially the 'removing their past work' from it - as hopefully it'll mean different people getting roles. Most VA don't have a clue what colour their character's skin is anyway - they get a very small brief on them in most cases. Like 'old, crotchety, smoker's rasp' or 'young, bubbly, full of energy' and let them run with it.
I did this with my project too.Some people simply pick the voices based on samples and not anything else.
I think you're completely missing my point. They didn't try to remove prejudices and if they did they picked a horrible method for doing so. Like creating a racially equitable society, removing prejudices and bias from the hiring process is also incredibly hard. It's certainly doable and one of the ways we try is we directly engage with and acknowledge our biases and prejudices. Taking a colorblind approach is decidedly not doing that in fact is basically doing the opposite.Well, they tried something at least. It is not the best way to people diversity? Sure. But seems a fair way to choose the best candidate without prejudices. The problem here is criticising the Dev that at least tried something, and then do nothing with the underlying reasons that lead to limited diversity.
Oh, and will say it again, diversity shouldn't be forced when not needed. We don't need every game, movie or piece of art to have an exact percentage of certain group of population.
Why the fuck would you blindly pick the VA using only audio files? Is that common in the industry?
This was the first thing I thought of. While who they got to play Nadine did a fantastic job, it was still pretty shitty.
The first part of you post contradicts the last sentence though. Taking a colorblind approach is basically the opposite of acting on said biases.Unconscious bias is a topic that companies and agencies are taking into consideration in the UK. I am totally for the approach they took during the hiring process and it shows their commitment in keeping it fair. One thing I learnt when i attended talks on this topic is that everyone has bias-its unconscious, its the act of acknowledging and acting on it that we see change.
Because it got bad voice actors, or because it didn't get the results you wanted?
The entire point of being a voice actor is that you can act using just your voice. A 30 year old can make themselves sound like an 80 year old, a 20 year old can make themselves sound like an 8 year old. The creators landed on these actors after they found the performances they were looking for. I seriously doubt there was any thought put into it beyond that.
I think creators should always have the final say when it comes to creating their work. From a statistical standpoint it would be nice for them to go out of there way to help groups with less opportunity, but I'm not going to tell them how to make their thing.
I wouldn't care if a POC voiced a white person. I'm all for equality for race and gender but sometimes I feel people just try to look and find racism/discrimination for every little thing. True equality means that this issue shouldn't be a big deal.
More power to y'all who stand up and fight against true racist/discrimination issues but this ain't it.
I agree with parts of this. Think it's a bit of an overreaction.
Of course you wouldn't care because there isn't over-representation of PoC voice actors for white characters. Your "true equality" just sounds like colourblindedness (The Atlantic: Why Color-Blindness Is A Counterproductive Ideology) and lacks awareness of the different issues different people face. This colour-blind casting has revealed the unconscious biases and doesn't acknowledge the problem of representation. It's unintentional discrimination, but the result comes out to be whitewashing.I wouldn't care if a POC voiced a white person. I'm all for equality for race and gender but sometimes I feel people just try to look and find racism/discrimination for every little thing. True equality means that this issue shouldn't be a big deal.
More power to y'all who stand up and fight against true racist/discrimination issues but this ain't it.
Well, then there's much the Dev can do. The problem is not the Dev. The problem is that we need to create an environment where anyone can reach their goals regardless of the, color, sex or even economical status.
And that hasn't been done. And when done, it will take time. Instead of blaming the Dev, unless there's clear proof of discrimination, maybe focusing efforts in the roots of the problem may help.
Well, they tried something at least. It is not the best way to people diversity? Sure. But seems a fair way to choose the best candidate without prejudices. The problem here is criticising the Dev that at least tried something, and then do nothing with the underlying reasons that lead to limited diversity.
Oh, and will say it again, diversity shouldn't be forced when not needed. We don't need every game, movie or piece of art to have an exact percentage of certain group of population.
There is no color blindness in creative choices around VA and it's not possible for people to make completely impartial decisions. I've worked with audio departments in AAA gaming and trying to do "color blind" casting often led to actors being picked for performance based on the internal biases of the listeners. If they heard a fitting sounding voice, they picked it. How they defined "fitting" was based on their own ingrained cultural biases and backgrounds. Voice actors can sound like other people but that is not the same as having a voice actor of a particular ethnic group or a POC voice that characterThe entire point of being a voice actor is that you can act using just your voice. A 30 year old can make themselves sound like an 80 year old, a 20 year old can make themselves sound like an 8 year old. The creators landed on these actors after they found the performances they were looking for. I seriously doubt there was any thought put into it beyond that.
I think creators should always have the final say when it comes to creating their work. From a statistical standpoint it would be nice for them to go out of there way to help groups with less opportunity, but I'm not going to tell them how to make their thing.
Oh, and will say it again, diversity shouldn't be forced when not needed. We don't need every game, movie or piece of art to have an exact percentage of certain group of population.
Blind VA auditions in an industry where 90% of the people working in it are white is not being "color blind".
In the entirety of my life there have been exactly 0 people who have held this opinion who were not problematic at best and just plain racist at worst. This aint the side you wanma be on fam.
What is "forced diversity"??? Literally asking what it is and where it has been the case.
There is no unbiased, color blind approach to this and certainly not "we'll only hear audio samples without considering other factors". You cannot separate your inbuilt biases from decisions you make without taking extra steps to ensure that you're accounting for those biases. That's why people are calling them out on it.Seems pretty obvious to me. The devs took an unbiased, color-blind approach. Many people in this thread are saying that's not enough, and that they should have picked employees based on their skin color. And now the devs are being hounded on social media. That's essentially forced diversity.
In the entirety of my life there have been exactly 0 people who have held this opinion who were not problematic at best and just plain racist at worst. This aint the side you wanma be on fam.
In a perfectly egalitarian world, that would be true. But this is not and never will be that kind of world. A 'color-blind' approach has always only ignored the underlying issues and factors surrounding race, not solved them. And this isn't necessarily an indictment of the people who hired the voice actors in question and rather points to a system where things like access to opportunity really is affected by more factors than what may seem obvious.I wouldn't care if a POC voiced a white person. I'm all for equality for race and gender but sometimes I feel people just try to look and find racism/discrimination for every little thing. True equality means that this issue shouldn't be a big deal.
A blind audition in a field where 90% of the applicants are white is not unbiased.
Sorry but your life is not the metric in how we decide if something is racism or not