• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 6 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes, 5 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the 40K Era There Is Only War

Cvie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
541
Recongregationism, Seculos Attendous

a little from column A and a little from column B
 

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
Sanguinius was the best primarch fighter. Even Russ said in Wolfsbane that he could of never beaten the Angel in combat

the whole reason Angron was recruited by Horus and Lorgar was that they believed Angron was the only one that could match Sanguinius, other than Horus himself
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2017
160
Newcomer to the Warhammer lore here. Does games workshop have an online version of black library for all books? Something like what Marvel and DC have for their comics with a sub? How is there digital is their service?
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Newcomer to the Warhammer lore here. Does games workshop have an online version of black library for all books? Something like what Marvel and DC have for their comics with a sub? How is there digital is their service?
No, currently they sell epubs of their books on their website or at any digital bookstore. No subscriptions to their books.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,004
Newcomer to the Warhammer lore here. Does games workshop have an online version of black library for all books? Something like what Marvel and DC have for their comics with a sub? How is there digital is their service?
I believe they have most of the Horus Heresy and their other novels for digital distribution on Black Library- but you'll pay a pretty penny for them.

Many of the books are slowly being released on Amazon for Kindle and on Audible. That's where I've been going.
 

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
Seige of Terra books are about to start which are the 10 last books in the Horus Heresy series

is the scale right here with Dorn?

i mean yes Primarchs are vastly more powerful than regular astartes, but in terms of height they are only a few inches taller
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Seige of Terra books are about to start which are the 10 last books in the Horus Heresy series

is the scale right here with Dorn?

i mean yes Primarchs are vastly more powerful than regular astartes, but in terms of height they are only a few inches taller
There is only one rule involving the consistency of height among Space Marines and Primarchs....and that's that there is no consistency among Space Marines and Primarchs.
 

Soya

Member
Oct 28, 2017
91
Seige of Terra books are about to start which are the 10 last books in the Horus Heresy series

is the scale right here with Dorn?

i mean yes Primarchs are vastly more powerful than regular astartes, but in terms of height they are only a few inches taller
No. Not really. Astartes to Primarch is roughly the same difference as regular human to Astartes. But this rule doesn't apply to every Primarch. There is big variety in Primarch height. For example Alpharius is said to be roughly the same size as a Space Marine, while Magnus and Vulkan tower over the rest of the Primarchs.
Custodes are the ones slightly larger than Astartes.
That said the art can be inconsistent in regards to height.
 

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
No. Not really. Astartes to Primarch is roughly the same difference as regular human to Astartes. But this rule doesn't apply to every Primarch. There is big variety in Primarch height. For example Alpharius is said to be roughly the same size as a Space Marine, while Magnus and Vulkan tower over the rest of the Primarchs.
Custodes are the ones slightly larger than Astartes.
That said the art can be inconsistent in regards to height.
but in terms of raw power they are much more powerful it seems

like 1 primarch= 3 or 4 astartes essentially
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Um, way way more than 3 or 4 Astartes. Primarchs are practically unkillable gods. They only seem to die when facing an equal level threat or when they want to.
Reminder that the Forgeworld models of Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus are designed to go to gether and Manus's head is designed to be chopped off.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,004


so do we all agree he was a terrible father?
More of an absentee one. Some of his decisions were questionable (Angron, Kurz), but his kids were also a mixed bag.

Angron should have been killed or left to die if big E wasn't going to help him and his slave friends in their last stand. He had the custodes with him...and just chose to teleport Angron away so he could watch his friends die.

For someone who has been around forever, he's terrible at understanding human emotions sometimes.
 

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
More of an absentee one. Some of his decisions were questionable (Angron, Kurz), but his kids were also a mixed bag.

Angron should have been killed or left to die if big E wasn't going to help him and his slave friends in their last stand. He had the custodes with him...and just chose to teleport Angron away so he could watch his friends die.

For someone who has been around forever, he's terrible at understanding human emotions sometimes.
i guess one could argue that he never really saw the primarchs as his "children" but leaders of mankind and didn't want to coddle them at every moment

he cared for humanity, but Big E was so far beyond human that it was hard for him to relate on an emotional level
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
More of an absentee one. Some of his decisions were questionable (Angron, Kurz), but his kids were also a mixed bag.

Angron should have been killed or left to die if big E wasn't going to help him and his slave friends in their last stand. He had the custodes with him...and just chose to teleport Angron away so he could watch his friends die.

For someone who has been around forever, he's terrible at understanding human emotions sometimes.
He fucked up big time with Logar though.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,428
Is the Emperor human sized, space marine sized, or primarch sized? If he's either of the latter two, does that mean he roamed around human civilizations for centuries as 8 to 10 foot tall bodybuilder and we all just pretended like that was normal.
 

Naarmight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
437
I believe the lore is he appears as something the Human (or even Primarch) mind can handle, so no one had really seen his true form
 
OP
OP
Gareth

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,562
Norn Iron
Some words on this from Aaron Dembski-Bowden:
The Master of Mankind is entirely from the perspectives of people that meet the Emperor in pretty specific circumstances. There are, obviously, other circumstances to come. Nothing in it is definitive, even less so than my usual work. Any definitive statement you can make about how the Emperor sees something or does something is almost always contradicted in the book itself. That's not an escape clause or an excuse. It's the point. Writing him definitively would've been the easiest and most disappointing thing in the world. (And on that note, remember, everyone views 40K differently. What Person X is absolutely certain is the truth of the Emperor and the best way to present him would be laughed off by Persons A, B, and C. The flip side to that is that not every perspective is founded in fact or understanding. The earliest "I've not read this yet, but..." criticisms and misunderstandings of TMoM in, ah, certain reddit/chan-style locations was regarded by GW IP folks as, I quote: "These angry people seem to be beholden to a version of 40K that has never existed...")

But in all seriousness, I don't want to delve too deeply into explaining the ways the Emperor's contradictions matter or don't matter. They're there, and they're definitely formative - totally agree - if not exactly definitive. With the Emperor, a lot of interaction is about getting out what you put in. You get what you give. Your perceptions and expectations are reflected back on you because that's how the human brain perceives everything (a fact that cannot be overstated; the science behind it is fascinating and all-important), especially when you're talking about someone who exists on that plane of power. At one point the Emperor makes mention of the notion that he's not even speaking, that being near to him allows the conveyance of meaning through psychic osmosis, and communication telepathically. He's not even talking. It's raw understanding filtering through a mind, or just the way the mortal mind comprehends the aura of what the Emperor intends, or, or, or... That's what I mean. TMoM is littered with that stuff. Does he only address the primarchs by number instead of name? Some characters will swear he does that, and doesn't that just perfectly match their perspectives of the primarchs as either emotionally-compromised "too-human" things that think they're sons (Ra), or genetic masterworks that have become galaxy-damning screw-ups that have literally let the galaxy burn and brought the Imperium to its knees, leading people to be exiled from their homeworlds (Land). Do you think Sanguinius will agree? Or care that's what mortals think? The Emperor's portrayal on that isn't even consistent between Ra and Diocletian, two of his Custodians - and on PAGE ONE, the only time he interacts with a primarch himself, and the one and only thing he says to Magnus the Red is...? "Magnus."

Like... that's a pretty strong indication that the interactions which follow are playing by different rules. Ra sees the Warlord of Humanity, just a man, but a great mean, weary and defiant, burdened by responsibility. Daemons see their annihilation, and go insane in his presence. One of the Knights, as they're marching through the Throne Room, is caught in religious rapture, unable to do anything but stare at the glorious halo of the Emperor of Mankind on the Golden Throne. One of the Sisters of Silence, in the same room, literally just sees a man in a chair. Another character, not Imperial, asks a Custodian if the Emperor even breathes. She believes he's a weapon left out of its box from the Dark Age of Technology. (With thanks to Alan Bligh for that one, he adores that theory.) So I don't think it's exactly a spoiler to say that if and when I get to write a character like Sanguinius in the Emperor's presence, or Malcador, they'd have entirely different experiences than Ra and Land. I'd loved to have had that in TMoM, but as much as it would've given wider context, these aren't rulebooks and essays; it would've been self-indulgent for the sake of 'hoping people get it', and cheapened the story being told, which was ultimately in a very narrow and confined set of circumstances. Breaking out of that narrative would be offering a sense of scope and freedom I was specifically trying to avoid in a claustrophobic siege story. Because theme and atmosphere is a thing.
 
Last edited:

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
i hope after the Horus Heresy series ends...Black Library does the Dark Age of Technology and the fall that leads to the Age of Strife
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
There's the scouring as well. Retaking of Mars would actually be a big one.
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,351
Seige of Terra books are about to start which are the 10 last books in the Horus Heresy series

is the scale right here with Dorn?

i mean yes Primarchs are vastly more powerful than regular astartes, but in terms of height they are only a few inches taller
Primarchs are big lads. Regular humans come up to their hips while when standing next to a marine, regular humans come up to their chests.

 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Primarchs are big lads. Regular humans come up to their hips while when standing next to a marine, regular humans come up to their chests.

I'm sorry but that cover looks so ridiculously silly.

Gulliman: PAAAAARTAAAY!
Sanguinius: No goddamnit we need to get to Terra
Guilliman: PAR-AR-ARTAAAAAAAY!
Sanguinius: We're getting nowhere fast...
 

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
I'm sorry but that cover looks so ridiculously silly.

Gulliman: PAAAAARTAAAY!
Sanguinius: No goddamnit we need to get to Terra
Guilliman: PAR-AR-ARTAAAAAAAY!
Sanguinius: We're getting nowhere fast...

the full cover's funnier

the Smurfs and Angels are celebrating with their primarchs why the Scars are there just like "what ev"
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,351
I'm sorry but that cover looks so ridiculously silly.

Gulliman: PAAAAARTAAAY!
Sanguinius: No goddamnit we need to get to Terra
Guilliman: PAR-AR-ARTAAAAAAAY!
Sanguinius: We're getting nowhere fast...
For context, G-man is proclaiming his brother as the Emperor of Imperium Secundus (the worlds that got cut off from the rest of the Imperium by a huge Warp storm). Sanguinius isn't exactly thrilled about it, but knows he's the best choice for the job as they have no idea how to get out and if Terra even still stands.