There's really only one thing to learn from this thread and it's not the topic as stated.
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Warren campaign might not be source of CNN story about Bernie Sanders saying a woman can't win [SEE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter GrapeApes
- Start date
There's really only one thing to learn from this thread and it's not the topic as stated.
Those same journalists sat on it for two years, are they really a bigger concern than the absolute media shitstorm the perception of a feud engendered? This would have passed out of notice overnight with a firm Warren denial, no minor journalistic personalities would have breathed life back into what people would, by that time, have figured was just bullshit manufactured by the media.
All of this is just moderates trying to start shit and divide progressives so they can help people like Biden.
but that's assuming all progressives are sheep that can be easily manipulated by moderates
I mean I'm fairly confident Warren IS lying by way of repeating the most uncharitable interpretation possible of the simple strategic observation that Trump would run a sexist as hell campaign, but even if she IS telling the truth, my point is that lying was the correct thing to do IF she truly believed this wasn't something we should be talking about.
It's not the media's job to worry about feuds when reporting.
Why would Warren issue a firm denial when she said he said it, not just to these reporters off the record over a year ago, but again on state just this week?
oh so she should have lied if even she was telling the truth and Bernie should always get a pass on lying for the cause got it
this seems like a weird fundamental misunderstanding of how the media works, warren denying something she'd previously confirmed off the record would have led to a hundred times more media investigation because then not only can they get Bernie saying something uncouth they also have Warren deliberately lying about it, way bigger story that would last way longer
Incredible
I 100% don't believe that you'd say the same if it was Sanders confirming a story that Warren had said a Jewish person couldn't win the 2020 election.
I don't believe you'd say that even if it's true, he should have lied and said she didn't say it to make the story go away
right, since your starting point is already that warren is lying deliberately obviously you'd prefer she lie deliberately in the way that accomplishes your preferred outcomes, but it also seems like a waste of time to discuss the topic with you in that case
Personally, I don't have a problem with the idea of Warren being politically shrewd enough to lie about a stupid story when both her reputation and Bernie's are at stake. If this could have been sorted and settled with a denial, however false, we'd have all been better for it. I think it's vital that one of them win the nomination, and at this point I don't care which. I'm going to be critical of any decision they make that hampers their ability to win the nomination.
But I'm also not faulting her for how she's responded. It seems like clear she and Sanders were set up by CNN.
I don't believe her, anyway, so I'm not the one that has to square this circle. My contention is she should have lied if she was both telling the truth and sincerely believed this was not something we should be having a protracted public conversation about, because basic media savvy would suggest that confirming it, especially after Bernie's denial, made the conversation mandatory and inevitable.
If she genuinely wants to have this fight, fine! Just don't package it in bullshit conciliatory tones when it's something you have to actively choose to stoke.
i really don't think anyone is lying here. seems like a simple misunderstanding between two friends. such a waste of time and energy, this whole story
Personally I'm excited for the possibility of the narrative eventually shifting from Sanders would never say it, to Sanders was right to say it and Warren needs to stop being selfish and drop out because 2020 is too important to risk a woman running.
We're getting pretty close with the even if it's true she should have lied stuff
We're getting pretty close with the even if it's true she should have lied stuff
Sanders should have just apologized and this is his fault not Warren's for not lying about it for the greater good or whatever.
Bernie should have just apologized for the greater good
Bernie should have just apologized for the greater good
I agree with you,
they spoke privately about 2020 intentions and now a non-verbatim line came out which may not be word by word exact and that's what we go
right but that position represents a Martian-level understanding of human society and the media
The fact that it was CNN who broke the story and the way CNN acted so poorly that most people polled on the debate thought CNN was starting a fight makes them the most likely suspects of being the original leakers.
It's a shame this could never be proven because it would require someone within CNN who heard the decision to do this blow the whistle. The best move we can make as the public is accept the fact that Warren and Sanders have clearly been aligned for quite awhile and that they have had a disagreement about their respective chances of winning it all.
We've had lefties here interpret it as him saying sexism in the electorate will prevent a woman from winning and defending it as a valid political opinion.
And please let's not pretend that sexism amongst left wingers doesn't exist
you bêêêhhtter bêêêhhlieve it.
bêêêhh.
But seriously, why are y'all still on about this shit? Goddammit, they should never have let CNN do a debate. Next time, the DNC should just get Hassan Minaj as local-boy moderator and let Aljazeera English do the debate. I'm serious btw. Everyone who wants to talk real America or real policy uses Aljazeera footage already anyway. At this point they might as well just make it official and have them run a debate.
Yup. We even saw an example during the debate of how the two can have a misunderstanding due to seeing something differently with the whole "30 years" bit.
Let me ask you a very simple question that I hope you won't dodge. Do you believe an openly queer atheist or queer Muslim could win in 2020?
That you dodged it is really all that needs to be said. It tells me you know exactly where I was about to go, and your refusal to answer is an answer itself.
For the record, I fucking love Warren.
I think that Bernie is incapable of deescalating the situation here. I also don't know enough of what they said to each other to write with authority about any nuanced action he could take.
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Not sure where you are going with this, but we have polling!
Less Than Half in U.S. Would Vote for a Socialist for President
Less than half of Americans (47%) say they would vote for a qualified presidential candidate who is a socialist -- the same percentage Gallup found in 2015.
news.gallup.com
Polling on "Willingness to Vote for Presidential Candidates From Certain Groups"
Gay or lesbian: 76%
Muslim: 66%
Atheist: 60%
A woman: 95%
Or maybe, just maybe, two friends had a miscommunication. It's okay for neither of these two to be a villain here! If you really want someone to blame, CNN's right there!
Take your victory lap dude. You asked a shitty question to make it ok to say women shouldn't run for President because the country isn't ready.
I "dodged" it because it's some gotcha bullshit... the same shit could have been said when Obama ran.
The right candidate can be anyone.
I like that you had to add athiest on top of queer so as to successfully ignore Buttigieg running
If it's not moderates dividing progressives, it's other progressives doing it. The real issue is why are progressives so easily divided?
it's totally absurd to argue that if warren lied about something and several journalists knew it was a lie that it would make the story go away somehow, so far from reality that it's hard to figure out how to get back there
Is that really true? They are miles apart in their health care plans with Sanders basically proposing the concept of the German right and Warren proposing the concept of the German right / conservatives and in terms of tax, Sanders was discussing an increase of taxload for everyone (offset by the healthcare plan), whereas Warren claimed she would only increase taxes on billionaires - not even millionaires. That sounds to me like an enormous difference.
Exactly, this is not the time for in fighting over stupid petty shit, we have both the Republicans and Centrists to beat this year. Purity tests can wait for later there's a lot at stake.
The story also says different reporters recall the story differently. A few reporters bickering over whether they heard her saying something similar two years ago would have gotten barely any oxygen in comparison to the absolute shitshow that all this was, especially if they'd both turned their attentions to trying to take down Biden shortly thereafter.
Not sure where you are going with this, but we have polling!
Less Than Half in U.S. Would Vote for a Socialist for President
Less than half of Americans (47%) say they would vote for a qualified presidential candidate who is a socialist -- the same percentage Gallup found in 2015.
Polling on "Willingness to Vote for Presidential Candidates From Certain Groups"
Gay or lesbian: 76%
Muslim: 66%
Atheist: 60%
A woman: 95%
Not sure how honest people are going to be about their bigotry when polled
It might come as a surprise if one couldn't the same shit against everyone from Hillary Clinton to Nancy Pelosi to Kamala Harris to Elizabeth Warren dozens of times per day on leftist Twitter.... only women like AOC and Ilhan Omar from ~80% Dem districts that a corpse spray painted blue could win are pure enough to escape their wrath.
I think this might be that chapo trap house subreddit in a nutshell
I'm not going to engage in your fanfic here, this isn't true and it reflects a total lack of understanding of how the media operates and what they want
This thread is just the same shit different day.
People who don't like Bernie are convinced he said it and want him to apologize.
People who support Bernie are convinced he did not say it and are glad he issued a straight denial of it.
And CNN continues to stir shit up for ratings and to aid the moderate dems.
In the end it's going to remain a he said she said issue which divides the democratic base at a time they need to solidify.
Is this really an important issue? Both Sanders and Warren are great candidates, does this drama truly even matter?
Can't we just let this go rather than run around in circles until Trump gets re-elected? :(
People who don't like Bernie are convinced he said it and want him to apologize.
People who support Bernie are convinced he did not say it and are glad he issued a straight denial of it.
And CNN continues to stir shit up for ratings and to aid the moderate dems.
In the end it's going to remain a he said she said issue which divides the democratic base at a time they need to solidify.
Is this really an important issue? Both Sanders and Warren are great candidates, does this drama truly even matter?
Can't we just let this go rather than run around in circles until Trump gets re-elected? :(
Donald Trump is president. All bets should be off on "Can [Insert whoever here] be president".
Only 60% said they'd vote for an atheist, so at minimum, 40% seem to have no trouble at all to reveal they are bigoted in that poll.
It doesn't, but you've rather clearly got an axe to grind with me the last few days for some reason, so whatever.
The conservative/religious party of this country fell in love with the least moral president of our time. "Would you vote for a ______" is pretty vague because it depends on what they offer them. Trump is a peice of shit in tons of ways but he allows them to feel empowered culturally and get rich, so they don't care. I look for the amazing shift after Trump is finally gone where they "find their original values" again so they can spout out their bullshit about morality and god.