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Warren Refuses to Shake Bernie’s Hand After Debate, Bernie Throws Up Hands After They Speak

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Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,582
Nothing is more important than beating Trump. Or, nothing is more important than Medicare for All. Or, nothing is more important than putting a progressive in the White House.

Or, can you believe what that lying snake did to Bernie? Never!
 

Jindrax

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,106
On topic: this is dumb, but seriously dumb.

Off topic: looking over at the all the candidates they're so OLD. I mean WOW. I understand that you don't want a 35 year old president but this is just insane.
 

Dust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,362
Everything is WWE in the USA, even democratic primary.

"BY GODS, SHE DID NOT SHAKE HIS HAND!!"
"THAT’S RIGHT VINCE, THAT WAS CLASSIC SHAKEADODGE MOVE, CANNOT BELIEVE SHE PULLED THAT OFF!!"
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
2,400
America, why do your politicians act like school children? Is this a new trend or have I just never really noticed
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
842

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
658
its just funny at everyone now just downplaying the whole situation as she just not shaking his hand
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
You know, the idea that Warren would engineer this “leak” and lie about it to reinvigorate her campaign also has another problem with it; namely, the fact that women talking about issues of sexism almost always involve a great deal of backlash that typically backfired on said woman, and also that Warren, who has experienced sexual harassment, isn’t smart enough to realize that. it relies on ignorance of women’s issues, the outdated notion that it was all for attention, and for Warren herself to be ignorant of her own challenges and difficulties she’s faced.
Women are human and therefore fallible. I don't discount what you're saying, but that hardly gives her cover for her role in this. The problem is that we are working with pretty limited information as well as conflicting information. Add biases into the mix and you have a real explosive situation. I don't know what happened behind the scenes. Personally, I think that she was expecting Bernie to apologize and he was probably expecting the same.

However, the reality is this. Her team, with or without Warren's consent, went to the press over a statement that was made during a dinner meeting one year ago. I do believe that Warren believes that Bernie said that (oh god this sentence) a woman couldn't win against Trump. I also believe that Sanders believes he didn't say that. It really doesn't matter who's right at the end of the day though, because NO ONE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE PRESS OVER THIS.

The intention of going to the press was to make it look like Bernie did a sexism. And hell, maybe they believe it. But it's still a fucking low blow in a race that was previously friendly. After that happened, the Warren camp took 6+ hours to decide whether confirm the statement or not. 6 hours where they were deciding whether or not they should defuse the situation. And they went with it. Without adding any other context or explanation, they passed along a conformation of the statement. A statement that implies Bernie did a sexism. And after that, they went dark. Warren and her team didn't want to answer any questions about it.

Take us to the debate, where Bernie is sticking by his previous statement and Warren to hers. At this point, she knew full well what the public reaction was like to this debacle and the ramifications of staying her ground. And she went for it. Again, choosing not to add any more context to the matter.

Bernie was in a position where if he gave a full apology, he'd be called a liar for not admitting it sooner. If he gave a half apology, it would have come of as condescending. But he wasn't going to do either of those things because he probably still believes he didn't say anything of that nature.

And all of this over some tame nothing volunteer guide. If that's all it takes for Warren's team to go scorched earth, then they aren't prepared for the General.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,586
Women are human and therefore fallible. I don't discount what you're saying, but that hardly gives her cover for her role in this. The problem is that we are working with pretty limited information as well as conflicting information. Add biases into the mix and you have a real explosive situation. I don't know what happened behind the scenes. Personally, I think that she was expecting Bernie to apologize and he was probably expecting the same.

However, the reality is this. Her team, with or without Warren's consent, went to the press over a statement that was made during a dinner meeting one year ago. I do believe that Warren believes that Bernie said that (oh god this sentence) a woman couldn't win against Trump. I also believe that Sanders believes he didn't say that. It really doesn't matter who's right at the end of the day though, because NO ONE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE PRESS OVER THIS.

The intention of going to the press was to make it look like Bernie did a sexism. And hell, maybe they believe it. But it's still a fucking low blow in a race that was previously friendly. After that happened, the Warren camp took 6+ hours to decide whether confirm the statement or not. 6 hours where they were deciding whether or not they should defuse the situation. And they went with it. Without adding any other context or explanation, they passed along a conformation of the statement. A statement that implies Bernie did a sexism. And after that, they went dark. Warren and her team didn't want to answer any questions about it.

Take us to the debate, where Bernie is sticking by his previous statement and Warren to hers. At this point, she knew full well what the public reaction was like to this debacle and the ramifications of staying her ground. And she went for it. Again, choosing not to add any more context to the matter.

Bernie was in a position where if he gave a full apology, he'd be called a liar for not admitting it sooner. If he gave a half apology, it would have come of as condescending. But he wasn't going to do either of those things because he probably still believes he didn't say anything of that nature.

And all of this over some tame nothing volunteer guide. If that's all it takes for Warren's team to go scorched earth, then they aren't prepared for the General.
Women are fallible, but the idea she’s lying or thought this would save her candidacy requires not just ignorance on Warren’s part but incompetence and a deft misunderstanding of issues that are part of her own experience and that after years of playing the political game she’d suddenly lose all sense of the risks involved. That is the core of my point.

As for this being a low blow... I’m sorry, but the truth isn’t a low blow. Bernie refuses to protect himself from his own boneheaded statements and awful hiring and endorsement track record so I don’t expect why Warren should be expected to protect him.

The idea this was vindictive is also moronic, for most of the same reasons.
 

Hylianhero777

Member
Oct 25, 2017
266
#NeverWarren and #CNNisTrash both trending this morning, and with good reason.

(Since everyone gets so feral over this yes I am voting for whoever the dem is in the general but what Warren did was extremely callous and shady)
 

Redeye97

Member
Apr 25, 2019
168
Team Bernie and Warren having a rumble the eve of election, and I'm just sitting here wondering how the hell we're going to pull together come November.

I'm voting against Trump no matter what, but I'm kinda hoping neither Bernie nor Warren gets the nomination at this point.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Women are fallible, but the idea she’s lying or thought this would save her candidacy requires not just ignorance on Warren’s part but incompetence and a deft misunderstanding of issues that are part of her own experience and that after years of playing the political game she’d suddenly lose all sense of the risks involved. That is the core of my point.

As for this being a low blow... I’m sorry, but the truth isn’t a low blow. Bernie refuses to protect himself from his own boneheaded statements and awful hiring and endorsement track record so I don’t expect why Warren should be expected to protect him.
She could have made bad calls, especially when surrounded by strategists who are telling her that her odds of winning are looking slim. I'm not going to argue over this because, like I said before, we have limited and conflicting information as well as biases.

But I will argue that it was a low blow 100%. Tell me. Why did her team go to the press over this? What was the reason? To let the press know that he said something kinda sexist once, but it's fine don't worry about it? When you go to the press over something, there's a goal in mind. This is a race for president. What was that goal?
 

Hodgy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,828
UK
feels like the media are just playing this up the reduce confidence in the two most progressive candidates .

:/
 

Kormora

Member
Nov 7, 2017
538
You know, at this point im so exhausted of this primary. The viciousness of this campaign from some supporters is just demoralizing. At what point do we stop fighting and focus on the real enemy, aka the gop and trump?
Lol if you think this was bad you clearly weren't around for the 2008 primary. That was full on nastiness.

Hell the 2004 primary had some major sketchy shit.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,586
She could have made bad calls, especially when surrounded by strategists who are telling her that her odds of winning are looking slim. I'm not going to argue over this because, like I said before, we have limited and conflicting information as well as biases.

But I will argue that it was a low blow 100%. Tell me. Why did her team go to the press over this? What was the reason? To let the press know that he said something kinda sexist once, but it's fine don't worry about it? When you go to the press over something, there's a goal in mind. This is a race for president. What was that goal?
Warren does not strike me as having any of this happen by her will. I can’t say anything firm about why her staffers would do this, but I’m more willing to believe misguided stupidity on their part than on her’s. And once it’s out there... your only choice is damage control. Admitting the truth to as much as already been leaked is the responsible thing to do because it’s becoming the domain of innuendo now, but it is her right to continue to desire privacy over the rest of the conversation.

“What was the context?” “You probably misunderstood the situation.” Those are all classic questions that women get barraged with in this, and they don’t repent even when you give them context. It’s deeply humiliating and demoralizing to experience. So if you really want to know why she’s not discussing more aspects of the conversation, that is undoubtedly why.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
2,400
Women are fallible, but the idea she’s lying or thought this would save her candidacy requires not just ignorance on Warren’s part but incompetence and a deft misunderstanding of issues that are part of her own experience and that after years of playing the political game she’d suddenly lose all sense of the risks involved. That is the core of my point.

As for this being a low blow... I’m sorry, but the truth isn’t a low blow. Bernie refuses to protect himself from his own boneheaded statements and awful hiring and endorsement track record so I don’t expect why Warren should be expected to protect him.

The idea this was vindictive is also moronic, for most of the same reasons.
Did she leak this to orchestrate this entire fiasco? I absolutely don't believe she did. But she played into it knowing full well it would become a big deal. Its a low blow because instead of debating Sanders on policy, she is giving credence to the notion that Bernie is sexist (which i highly doubt she believes is true) knowing full well the way it will be perceived.

Or maybe I'm wrong and she really does believe Sanders is sexist and has just held her tounge this whole time
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Warren does not strike me as having any of this happen by her will. I can’t say anything firm about why her staffers would do this, but I’m more willing to believe misguided stupidity on their part than on her’s. And once it’s out there... your only choice is damage control. Admitting the truth to as much as already been leaked is the responsible thing to do because it’s becoming the domain of innuendo now, but it is her right to continue to desire privacy over the rest of the conversation.

“What was the context?” “You probably misunderstood the situation.” Those are all classic questions that women get barraged with in this, and they don’t repent even when you give them context. It’s deeply humiliating and demoralizing to experience. So if you really want to know why she’s not discussing more aspects of the conversation, that is undoubtedly why.
Your point's not lost on me. I understand you want to think the best of Warren and I do too. The problem with your point is that would also imply that Warren has no control over her staffers. Staffers which basically just jeopardized her entire campaign along with Bernie's. This is, without a doubt, the biggest move ANY of the candidates have made during this race. And her staffers made that decision for her? I know you think Bernie has made bad staffing choices, but this... I mean. We're talking about a group of people who launched the nukes without the president's authorization, if you'll pardon the hyperbole. That scenario should be extremely concerning to everyone on Warren's side.

As for your point on women's struggles with exposing sexism, yeah. That makes sense. I still don't think this overall narrative is the most likely one, but I understand where you're coming from.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,582
Your point's not lost on me. I understand you want to think the best of Warren and I do too. The problem with your point is that would also imply that Warren has no control over her staffers. Staffers which basically just jeopardized her entire campaign along with Bernie's. This is, without a doubt, the biggest move ANY of the candidates have made during this race. And her staffers made that decision for her? I know you think Bernie has made bad staffing choices, but this... I mean. We're talking about a group of people who launched the nukes without the president's authorization, if you'll pardon the hyperbole. That scenario should be extremely concerning to everyone on Warren's side.

As for your point on women's struggles with exposing sexism, yeah. That makes sense. I still don't think this overall narrative is the most likely one, but I understand where you're coming from.
To be fair, I don’t think it was confirmed to be current staffers....
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,455
NYC
You'd think people would work together to get rid of the orange menace in power instead of quarreling among themselves like that
having looked at twitter this morning, we are officially in the "white people threatening to skip the general" phase of the primary

so emotionally prepare yourself for 4 more years of Trump
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,568
America, why do your politicians act like school children? Is this a new trend or have I just never really noticed
This behavior is so much better than what the rest of the world allows. They didnt even start throwing chairs.
Gonna be fun talking about this ad nauseum after neither of them win the primary.
Well if it wasnt for this one issue the public would be embracing M4A.
 

Xiao Hu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,051
Team Bernie and Warren having a rumble the eve of election, and I'm just sitting here wondering how the hell we're going to pull together come November.

I'm voting against Trump no matter what, but I'm kinda hoping neither Bernie nor Warren gets the nomination at this point.
So....do you want a big pile of malarkey or rat boy?
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
To be fair, I don’t think it was confirmed to be current staffers....
Was it implied they weren't somewhere? Even if they were former staffers, why would Warren's camp go along with their story? I'd think they'd not want to roll with outside influence over something as explosive as this.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,582
Was it implied they weren't somewhere? Even if they were former staffers, why would Warren's camp go along with their story? I'd think they'd not want to roll with outside influence over something as explosive as this.
I mean, they did not comment on the story. The other option is to presumably lie and say the conversation never took place. The only Warren campaign comments came after Bernie's campaign manager started raising a stink.
 

TheGhost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,235
Long Island
maybe there isn't an anti-Bernie conspiracy

maybe the dude just sucks
Yeah, probably more leaning into that at this point. I don't blame her for it, she really doesn't owe him anything. I would like to seeWarren being the first woman president, Bernie doesn't look like he'll make it out the second year with his health issues. Stress of the job and realization a majority of his plans won't pass will put too much strain on his body.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,586
Your point's not lost on me. I understand you want to think the best of Warren and I do too. The problem with your point is that would also imply that Warren has no control over her staffers. Staffers which basically just jeopardized her entire campaign along with Bernie's. This is, without a doubt, the biggest move ANY of the candidates have made during this race. And her staffers made that decision for her? I know you think Bernie has made bad staffing choices, but this... I mean. We're talking about a group of people who launched the nukes without the president's authorization, if you'll pardon the hyperbole. That scenario should be extremely concerning to everyone on Warren's side.

As for your point on women's struggles with exposing sexism, yeah. That makes sense. I still don't think this overall narrative is the most likely one, but I understand where you're coming from.
Is it current staffers who said this? Is their motivation Warren’s best interest? honestly. All campaigns have leaks that serve as anonymous sources; there are people like this in Bernie’s campaign, Biden’s. That’s how these news people get their information.
 

Shoreu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
369
The moderators of the debate failed at getting to the bottom of this. It’s a simple yes or no question Bernie said no and Warren made a talking point out of it.
 

KefkaPalazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
763
Fucking great.

Now it may not even matter if it's Bernie or Warren who looks like they have a shot in a few months...sides will be taken even more now and they may not be willing to slide over to the other.

Only Diamond Joe wins from this.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,582
Fucking great.

Now it may not even matter if it's Bernie or Warren who looks like they have a shot in a few months...sides will be taken even more now and they may not be willing to slide over to the other.

Only Diamond Joe wins from this.
Honestly, this might open up a path for Pete too. But yeah, it benefits all the other candidates not involved either.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,001
Fucking great.

Now it may not even matter if it's Bernie or Warren who looks like they have a shot in a few months...sides will be taken even more now and they may not be willing to slide over to the other.

Only Diamond Joe wins from this.
Neither candidate was planning on dropping out any time soon, and I doubt their supporters were going to budge—especially not Sanders—to try and tip the election in one another’s favor. This likely won’t change much.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
I mean, they did not comment on the story. The other option is to presumably lie and say the conversation never took place. The only Warren campaign comments came after Bernie's campaign manager started raising a stink.
Well, there were a lot of options. The Warren camp needed to make a statement because there was a lot of pressure on them to do so, especially after the Sanders camp denied it. If they wanted to make this go away, they could have confirmed the dinner and said that Sanders didn't say anything like that, or that he said something like it but it was appropriate in the context.

But they went with an option that was meant to make this thing stick around. She has some of the best campaign advisers in the business I'm sure so, outside of advisor incompetency, they must have known what their statement was going to result in.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,201
Well, there were a lot of options. The Warren camp needed to make a statement because there was a lot of pressure on them to do so, especially after the Sanders camp denied it. If they wanted to make this go away, they could have confirmed the dinner and said that Sanders didn't say anything like that, or that he said something like it but it was appropriate in the context.

But they went with an option that was meant to make this thing stick around. She has some of the best campaign advisers in the business I'm sure so, outside of advisor incompetency, they must have known what their statement was going to result in.
You are asking her to lie for Bernie, why should she do that?
 

she_esh

Member
Sep 12, 2018
8,656
Ireland
Neither candidate was planning on dropping out any time soon, and I doubt their supporters were going to budge—especially not Sanders—to try and tip the election in one another’s favor. This likely won’t change much.
This is where I am too. I'll add that I genuinely can't see any Sanders supporters be convinced by this, I did however see some people who have donated to Warren in the past express disappointment with her over this.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,308
What an embarrassing display from Warren. At least wait until you're in private and shake his damn hand for the cameras. I've always thought of Warren as being level headed, but this changes my perception a bit. Combined with the whole Native American thing I'm starting to change my opinion of her.
 

KefkaPalazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
763
Honestly, this might open up a path for Pete too. But yeah, it benefits all the other candidates not involved either.
Yup, very possible. I'm definitely not as down on Pete as many, but on the issues...he's just a slightly more progessive Biden, but without the minority support. No thanks...not with Bernie and Warren on the table.

An even more scary thought...what if this ends up being as bad as possible and it opens the door for Bloomberg or Steyer. A battle between two elites in 2020.

Let's hope we're all overreacting and most primary voters just don't care.
 

jph139

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,282
Massachusetts
I can't really believe there are people dumb or shortsighted enough to actually fall into this schoolyard crap. There are a myriad of interpretations of this where, with a little generosity, neither is a lying cheating snake person. Both have made it clear, publicly, they're on the same team. Why is this so hard?
 

neon/drifter

Member
Apr 3, 2018
1,460
Still voting for Bernie 1st and Warren 2nd. Fuck you corporate elite.

I'm upset with Warren on this one but after the past 4 years I don't give a fuck for "perfection" in a candidate anymore.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,586
Again. Warren won’t even name the Harvard professor who freaking sexually harassed her. She is most certainly more powerful than he could ever hope to be.

But no, risking it all on he said-she said against the person ahead of her is where she choses to abandon her principles and discretion.
 
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